Lenny scripts 2 - Should it be banned from the workshop? Discussion thread - Garry's Mod

Hello users of Facepunch. Today I have put together this thread about Lenny scripts 2. I've put forward the question to the discussion But before that I just want to say this isnt a bash at Lenny or his script. Just an discussion because it is controversial and I have put arguments for and against. Here is the question "Should it be banned from workshop?" I've put some reasons for and against it being banned and feel free to share your opinions and experience with this controversial script. First of all here is some basic information about Lenny scripts 2 Recently there has been a large influx of players on servers using an addon called "Lenny scripts 2".It is avaliable for download at the workshop here [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=186936307[/url] it has many features, the ability to see through walls, an aimbot, prop killing scripts, chat spammer and lots more. Some people see this as a hackers tool and are wondering why it is not banned from the workshop but others think that it is fine because it does TECHNICALLY not violate steams rule about cheating and because of this people will not get VAC banned for using this. Valves guide to cheats [url]https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7849-Radz-6869[/url] [I]"The VAC system reliably detects cheats using their cheat signatures. Any third-party modification to a game designed to give one player an advantage over another is classified as a cheat or hack and will trigger a VAC ban. This includes modifications to a game's core executable files and dynamic link libraries." [/I] Also [I]"Playing games should be fun. In order to ensure the best possible online multiplayer experience, Valve developed a state-of-the-art anti-cheat system that automatically detects and permanently bans any player using cheats or hacks on a VAC secured server. What this means to you as a player is that you don't have to worry about annoying cheaters getting an unfair advantage and disrupting your game." [/I] Here are the arguments for and against it being banned For Even though it does not modify or create any DLL or EXE files at garrys mod, so VAC will not detect this is a cheat and just see it as a script. However the moral issues that Lennys script 2 is giving an advantage over other players because you can see through the walls and use an aimbot and even though using the scripts is not bannable by VAC it is a cheat by definition of Valve. It has many features on it such as "chat spammer" that make it seem like a script to deliberately annoy and ruin the fun of peoples game. It causes lots of havok on servers at Darkrp where clientside lua scripts are set to 1 by default, meaning lenny scripts can be used and new server owners may not know how to stop this from occurring. Now that it is available on the workshop it means that lots of newer players have access to this script. Scripts usually were downloaded from external websites making it harder for the average player to use them but now that the workshop link is available people can easily download the script and use it. Some servers will detect and ban use of Lenny script 2 and people may not realise this and get banned from their favourite servers. Against It will only work on servers where clientside lua is enabled - this can justify lennys scripts use because it is just like using console commands when sv_cheats is set to 1 on a server so it is up to the server owner to turn clientside scripts off. On DARKRP the default for clientside lua scripts is 1 so this enables anyone to use lenny scripts 2 on the server at default but some server owners will set it to 0 if they are more experienced. It is on the workshop - because it has not been removed from the workshop which is moderated by the steam team it may allow the use of Lenny scripts on the game. People can use it on singleplayer and not multiplayer. People may just see this as a fun addition to their singleplayer game and have no intent for multiplayer. Much like the aimbot gun that was available on toybox a while back. Anyone can use it. Because its a script people can add this to their Gmod no matter who they are. So if someone says they are gaining an unfair advantage with Lenny scripts 2 they can easily install it themselves without fear of being banned themselves. So here are just SOME reasons for and against Lennys scripts 2. I know Lenny is on the forum so if you see this feel free to clear up any mistakes that I have made in this post. Post YOUR opinions and experiences with Lennys scripts 2.

imo, this whole thread is bullshit. Removing Lenny's Scripts off the workshop isnt going to do much, becuase there are other scripts that do similar things, if not, they'll make their own, it isnt hard. If you have never ran a sever before, don't run one. Because once it goes to complete apeshit, only you will be able to fix it, but you wont know how. Also, I dont think garrys mod even uses VAC, im pretty sure its just GAC with the rare occurance of some source engine cheats with VAC.

[QUOTE=Exploderguy;46929011]imo, this whole thread is bullshit. Removing Lenny's Scripts off the workshop isnt going to do much, becuase there are other scripts that do similar things, if not, they'll make their own, it isnt hard. If you have never ran a sever before, don't run one. Because once it goes to complete apeshit, only you will be able to fix it, but you wont know how. Also, I dont think garrys mod even uses VAC, im pretty sure its just GAC with the rare occurance of some source engine cheats with VAC.[/QUOTE] That is true but I have chosen Lenny script 2 because it's the only script I have found on the WORKSHOP that uses such features and has not been removed. It's not the script itself, but because you can use it on the workshop now instead of downloading it from a web-page. This means that it's much more easily accessible for any user, yes most of us could have the potential to place scripts in folders but to lots of people they would't know how/ can't be bothered to do it and just see this and try. It is much more ACCESSIBLE for any gmod user to use scripts now and with the safety of the workshop there is not much fear of being banned so they will more than likely use it. Also servers can make clients subscribe to workshop addons when they join the server so a server could set up so Lennys scripts is downloaded to all the clients meaning any new player will get it.

Dear serverwatch, No one gives a shit about your opinion. Your username is dumb, infering that you are the one person allowed to watch gmod servers. Lenny's scripts are fun on servers that forget to turn cslua to 0, which causes mass rage against the 12 year olds. Please go back to your native realm of Year 8 and DarkRP and also go outside more. Lots of love, Everyone from facepunch.

[QUOTE] It is much more ACCESSIBLE for any gmod user to use scripts now and with the safety of the workshop there is not much fear of being banned so they will more than likely use it. Also servers can make clients subscribe to workshop addons when they join the server so a server could set up so Lennys scripts is downloaded to all the clients meaning any new player will get it.[/QUOTE] But will they know how to run it? Also, falco's is probably more popular. Server owners can just get an Anti-Chat aswell. This idea is completly dumb.

[QUOTE=meharryp;46929049]Dear serverwatch, No one gives a shit about your opinion. Your username is dumb, infering that you are the one person allowed to watch gmod servers. Lenny's scripts are fun on servers that forget to turn cslua to 0, which causes mass rage against the 12 year olds. Please go back to your native realm of Year 8 and DarkRP and also go outside more. Lots of love, Everyone from facepunch.[/QUOTE] Erm... Have you read the original post? I've put reasons for and against Lennys script 2 I haven't just said "Lennys script should be banned", that is the question to discuss. And regarding my name it is because I like to review servers in my spare time sometimes... Why are you being so hostile towards me? I haven't put either way it should be used or not used just put reasons for and against and for people to discuss on the thread. I'm not in year 8 and yes I do play Darkrp but I also play other gamemodes too. I fail to see why you are just trying to insult me, perhaps to provoke a reaction? It's just a immature move by yourself to do such things... Isnt the whole point of the forum to discuss and talk about things in gmod?

[QUOTE=serverwatch;46929061]Erm... Have you read the original post? I've put reasons for and against Lennys script 2 I haven't just said "Lennys script should be banned", that is the question to discuss. And regarding my name it is because I like to review servers in my spare time sometimes... Why are you being so hostile towards me? I haven't put either way it should be used or not used just put reasons for and against and for people to discuss on the thread. I'm not in year 8 and yes I do play Darkrp but I also play other gamemodes too. I fail to see why you are just trying to insult me, perhaps to provoke a reaction? It's just a immature move by yourself to do such things... Isnt the whole point of the forum to discuss and talk about things in gmod?[/QUOTE] Yeah, but discussing pointles things about pointless things is pointless. From our perspective, it seems you're trying to get Lenny's Scripts off the workshop.

[QUOTE=Exploderguy;46929078]Yeah, but discussing pointles things about pointless things is pointless. From our perspective, it seems you're trying to get Lenny's Scripts off the workshop.[/QUOTE] I don't think that lennys script is pointless. It has a use to it. Also I'm not , I just thought it was surprising that such a thing is allowed on the workshop when it's controversial.

There is so much bullshit on workshop right now, like dupes and sound sweps and yet you are complaining about an addon that somebody put [i]actual[/i] work and effort into, and was nice enough to release it to the public, for free.

[quote]It will only work on servers where clientside lua is enabled[/quote] Like, I've seen people on Facepunch say that enabling clientside lua is stupid and they often get bombarded with dumbs but if I ask myself 'what are the good things people can do with clientside lua, versus trouble that can be caused" it just seems like a completely idiotic thing to allow?? Why would you trust the average gmod user with this, like most cannot code at all and those who can usually have their own server to play on, plus it takes like two seconds to find fucking hacks I hate RP so maybe I just don't understand but it's just really bizarre to me

Honestly, bickering about servers, admins "slow hacking" and workshop scripts is just a waste of time. Play the damn game. If you don't like how others play it then leave to play another game. Otherwise, it's not a problem. That's how they choose to play. (Unless they affect YOUR server or something related to that of course) Edit: This is a game, not politics.

Who cares if lenny scripts is on workshop. You still cant use it on other servers without enabling clientside lua (which most of the skids who download it dont have a clue how to do) and even after you do that, its a pretty bad script [quote]Even though it does not modify or create any DLL or EXE files at garrys mod, so VAC will not detect this is a cheat and just see it as a script. However the moral issues that Lennys script 2 is giving an advantage over other players because you can see through the walls and use an aimbot and even though using the scripts is not bannable by VAC it is a cheat by definition of Valve.[/quote] You still need to use a DLL coupled with an injector to use lenny scripts on other servers. also VAC and GAC is pretty much dead in gmod and iirc only detects some hacks like baconbot and sethhack [quote]It causes lots of havok on servers at Darkrp where clientside lua scripts are set to 1 by default, meaning lenny scripts can be used and new server owners may not know how to stop this from occurring. [/quote] Then its the server owners responsibility to disable it. [quote]Some servers will detect and ban use of Lenny script 2 and people may not realise this and get banned from their favourite servers.[/quote] Once again, they wont be banned for this because IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS YOU FORCE SV_ALLOWCSLUA TO 1 ON YOUR CLIENT. If the user gets banned for using lenny script [i]AND[/i] forcing sv_allowcslua then its the users own fault.

Dude, honestly it seems like you're trying way too hard with your threads

[QUOTE=serverwatch;46929115]I don't think that lennys script is pointless. It has a use to it. Also I'm not , I just thought it was surprising that such a thing is allowed on the workshop when it's controversial.[/QUOTE] It was not very controversial until you made a thread crying about it.

[QUOTE=circuitbawx;46929875]Dude, honestly it seems like you're trying way too hard with your threads[/QUOTE] Too much free time?

I suppose you could claim it breaks the terms listed at [url]http://www.garrysmod.com/terms/[/url]

yes please ban lennys scripts are a menace to this community

[QUOTE=Willox;46931413]I suppose you could claim it breaks the terms listed at [url]http://www.garrysmod.com/terms/[/url][/QUOTE] How so? I'm using my usual reasoning: Hacking is circumventing some kind of security measure like sv_allowcslua, which this is not doing in any way Cheating is breaking the rules of the game, which this can't since it's only able to be loaded when allowcslua is 1 and thus the right to use the full potential of clientside lua is explicitly granted in the ruleset [editline]14th January 2015[/editline] Note that the game rules itself are meant here, not server specific rules This may break server specific rules, but servers are responsible for enforcing rules added on top of game functionality (i.e. if Lenny then --[[ban]] end)

If you can't protect your server against something like Lenny's scripts then you deserve it. But in all seriousness here... No one cares.

[QUOTE=LennyPenny;46934073]How so? I'm using my usual reasoning: Hacking is circumventing some kind of security measure like sv_allowcslua, which this is not doing in any way Cheating is breaking the rules of the game, which this can't since it's only able to be loaded when allowcslua is 1 and thus the right to use the full potential of clientside lua is explicitly granted in the ruleset [editline]14th January 2015[/editline] Note that the game rules itself are meant here, not server specific rules This may break server specific rules, but servers are responsible for enforcing rules added on top of game functionality (i.e. if Lenny then --[[ban]] end)[/QUOTE] It's pretty much like distributing bongs in states that don't have recreational marijuana. People sell it, mark at as 'for tobacco use only'. It's up to the user to break that law/rule by packing a bowl/forcing sv_allowcslua to 1.

To be honest, I think that server owners that leave clientside lua on have it coming, if they do not know how to disable it. Besides, no-scoping people through walls is fun!

[QUOTE=merlinfoop;46934344]To be honest, I think that server owners that leave clientside lua on have it coming, if they do not know how to disable it. Besides, no-scoping people through walls is fun![/QUOTE] You can't shoot through walls with clientside Lua [editline]14th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=serverwatch;46929115]I don't think that lennys script is pointless. It has a use to it. Also I'm not , I just thought it was surprising that such a thing is allowed on the workshop when it's controversial.[/QUOTE] Your posts are pointless

[QUOTE=Exho;46935087]You can't shoot through walls with clientside Lua [/QUOTE] some sweps/servers allow wallbanging

Oh yeah I know that but you wont be able to do that purely on the client

lenny scripts 2 killed my family and friends

You shouldn't even be running a server if you have sv_allowcslua 1.

[QUOTE=LennyPenny;46934073]How so? I'm using my usual reasoning: Hacking is circumventing some kind of security measure like sv_allowcslua, which this is not doing in any way Cheating is breaking the rules of the game, which this can't since it's only able to be loaded when allowcslua is 1 and thus the right to use the full potential of clientside lua is explicitly granted in the ruleset [editline]14th January 2015[/editline] Note that the game rules itself are meant here, not server specific rules This may break server specific rules, but servers are responsible for enforcing rules added on top of game functionality (i.e. if Lenny then --[[ban]] end)[/QUOTE] let me direct you to: [quote](provided that’s not to cheat, hack, exploit or grief other people).[/quote] and several other passages ask people not to cause a ruckus for the betterment of the community. sv_allowcslua or not, it's still enabling this behavior, and can be construed as a cheat/greif tool [editline]15th January 2015[/editline] where did it say sv_allowcslua cheats were excluded, then?

[Quote]grief other people[/quote] Also using this logic, we should ban every propkoller, RDMer, mic spammer permanently from gmod.

[QUOTE]cheat, hack, exploit[/QUOTE] It isn't a hack, cheat or exploit of Garry's Mod code, it uses the tools available to everyone.

I don't get it. It's a public cheat. The more available it is, the more skiddies will try using it. Then you can just shitcan all of the skiddies using it.