As it is right now, and as it's been for a very long time, RP in Garrysmod has been one of two things:
- DarkRP, filled with stupid idiots and kids.
- SeriousRP, which is painfully and mind-numbingly boring and filled with stupid idiots and kids.
However, the root of the problem is deeper than that. The root of the problem can best be thought of in terms of game theory - what is the optimal decision for each player to make, in any situation? What is the goal?
Nearly always, a player comes on to a server for the express goal of having fun. This is what the majority of people want out of a game, and unfortunately, neither DarkRP nor SeriousRP are designed for the purpose of having fun. Straight out of the ClockWork RP guide/overview:
[I][B]What do you think serious roleplaying is about?[/B]
This is an important question to make sure you realize that you are suppose to develop your character as I said earlier its important to give your character a story and personality, the answer for this is obviously. "Developing your character."[/I]
This is, of course, absolutely fine - some people are just into that sort of thing. DarkRP, of course, is also [I]supposed[/I] to be about roughly the same thing. Now, here's the problem with all this, and it's a problem that, I think, is the main reason why so many people play DarkRP and TTT, rather than anything else. The problem is that those people are going to [I]find[/I] ways of having fun, which rarely coincides with the goals of SeriousRP and DarkRP (Or at least, what it's meant to be about). This is the main reason why Garrysmod RP has such an above-average rate of trolls and mingebags - because those people are [I]bored out of their fucking mind[/I] playing along with the actual gamemode.
It is rare to see, in a game like TF2 or Insurgency, anyone that actively tries to troll. They do exist, but they exist in small numbers and when they actually do strike, they are usually ineffectual. You don't need an admin to kick for teamkilling, or to punish someone for murder. The reason for this is simple: People are too much actually trying to play the goddamn game. They aren't bored enough yet to troll. It's the same reason a lot of people in school misbehave in class, for instance.
There are also problems that stem from this root cause. For one, the trolls and mingers are basically encouraged In a game like TF2, for instance, there isn't much you can do to troll your team. You could sit in a corner and whack a plant for the whole round, but generally, [I]trolling isn't the goal[/I] - it's having fun, and sitting in the corner, whacking a plant, isn't very fun. So you have two options: Sit in the corner and whack a plant, which will be very, very boring, or actually play the game, which might be fun. Guess which choice most people pick? And of course, they have too much power, because of course, FearRP means you can't fight back and you have to just do what they tell you to - [I]What a power trip![/I]
The next problem is that there are too many rules. Rules, and authority, is not something a lot of people like, particularly if all the authority does is act against them like most shitty Garrysmod admins. The huge number of rules puts a lot of people off because often, something as intuitive as using props to climb up to a higher place - [I]like what happens in real life all the fucking time (Source: Look at a ladder)[/I] - is banned. Something like revenge killing; also banned. Power is actively taken away from the player at every possible junction. Similarly, self-supply. Nobody ever sells guns, and when they do, is it any fun? Working retail - sounds like a fun time.
Another problem is that there simply is nothing to do. What do you do in DarkRP? Try and tell me. You try to make money, maybe. Okay then - is it fun to make money? No, no it absolutely isn't. The best way to make money is to sit in the corner all day and, well, whack a plant. The problem is that you are [I]encouraged[/I] to whack the plant, not discouraged. That's why the most fun times in DarkRP are the times when you're breaking all the rules. The fun times are when you corral all the cops and overthrow the admins. The times when you specifically aren't doing what the gamemode tells you to. The people who play by the rules are the donators who walk around as giant rainbow-coloured anime girls driving a Lamborghini in the same version of Downtown V4 every other server uses.
And SeriousRP, don't you think I'm going to let you off easy. SeriousRP, I think, suffers from many of the same problems DarkRP has, but with the caveat that it's much slower and much less interesting still. There is also a big problem with the way that something like Clockwork does things, and that's that [I]you[/I] pretty much make all the rules. At the end of the day it more resembles a board game or tabletop RPG than a game, and my objection to that is - why? Why bother? You have all the opportunity to take advantage of the features of this [I]3D video game[/I] and you recreate, effectively, a tabletop RPG in terms of thinking. I know it isn't anywhere near the same thing, but things like rolls and the damned /me command are what I'm talking about. You could do most of the things you could do in SeriousRP in Sandbox.
The [I]real[/I] root cause, of course, is that most Garrysmod developers are not game designers and do not take these factors into consideration. I'm not just going to complain, I'm going to say exactly what I think needs to happen, and exactly what I think would solve almost every problem Garrysmod RP has. That comes later, so be patient.
So, to re-cap:
- [B]Too many rules, and people hate rules[/B]
- [B]Assholes have all the power[/B]
- [B]Not immersive enough[/B]
- [B]And the root cause: Fun is actively discouraged and the most optimal way to gain money is to sit in a corner and whack a plant[/B]
FTPJE knew what he was on about. The rules don't prevent assholes from doing asshole shit, they [I]are a weapon for them[/I]. A little smart design could solve it - but no, everyone uses the same rules because nobody can think for themselves and, like business executives, are afraid to change things because the current system [I]works[/I], and any deviation could make you painfully unpopular.
So - how do we fix it?
EDIT: A lot of good opinions in this thread: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1512656&p=50039528[/url]
:snip:
[QUOTE=Moku;51420499]Don't play darkrp?[/QUOTE]
Okay, let me re-word it: How do we make something better?
:snip:
[QUOTE=Moku;51420510]Make a new gamemode that non of the "darkrp kids" look for.[/QUOTE]
:goodjob:
That's a non-answer. Okay, let's say again: What would the mechanics be of a good RP gamemode that would be fun to play? And if you're just going to say something like "Don't" or "It isn't an RP gamemode" then why are you even here?
A good RP gamemode is mostly about the playerbase
If the playerbase is no good then whatever gamemode will be ruined
To be honest, I love realism, I would like to have a gamemode that is very realistic, hard to get money, you must work and stuff, you don't spawn props, you order them like furniture and stuff then they will be delivered to your house,...stuff and stuff
[QUOTE=YoutoYokodera;51420552]A good RP gamemode is mostly about the playerbase
If the playerbase is no good then whatever gamemode will be ruined
To be honest, I love realism, I would like to have a gamemode that is very realistic, hard to get money, you must work and stuff, you don't spawn props, you order them like furniture and stuff then they will be delivered to your house,...stuff and stuff[/QUOTE]
But NOT SERIOUSRP.
Btw, what is exactly "character development" in your opinion?
the fundamentals of good rp:
1. make players move around and interact with each other as much as reasonably possible
2. make it so your actions can have a lasting impact on your character and the world around them
3. make a long progression chain so you have worthwhile long term goals to work towards
4. make plenty of fun instant gratification things to do as well to gain initial interest
5. have a good anticheat and endeavor to plug as many exploits as you can, shitters are frequent and they can and absolutely will destroy your server for their own entertainment
6. do not ban people for doing things that pose no danger to the integrity of the server and its players (if somebody is building a sweet ass hobo base don't be a pedantic cunt and ban them for "building on roads" or some such)
[QUOTE=legendofrobbo;51421244]the fundamentals of good rp:
1. make players move around and interact with each other as much as reasonably possible
2. make it so your actions can have a lasting impact on your character and the world around them
3. make a long progression chain so you have worthwhile long term goals to work towards
4. make plenty of fun instant gratification things to do as well to gain initial interest
5. have a good anticheat and endeavor to plug as many exploits as you can, shitters are frequent and they can and absolutely will destroy your server for their own entertainment
6. do not ban people for doing things that pose no danger to the integrity of the server and its players (if somebody is building a sweet ass hobo base don't be a pedantic cunt and ban them for "building on roads" or some such)[/QUOTE]
7. Don't sell admin, vip or premium is ok as long as they don't affect the gameplay, just let them access to more car,... (Not giving them those, just allow access
Make a gamemode centered around a real rp game, like DnD, that'll sure get your RP on top notch levels.
[QUOTE=Blinkenn;51443088]Make a gamemode centered around a real rp game, like DnD, that'll sure get your RP on top notch levels.[/QUOTE]
What is DnD
[QUOTE=legendofrobbo;51421244]the fundamentals of good rp:
1. make players move around and interact with each other as much as reasonably possible
2. make it so your actions can have a lasting impact on your character and the world around them
3. make a long progression chain so you have worthwhile long term goals to work towards
4. make plenty of fun instant gratification things to do as well to gain initial interest
5. have a good anticheat and endeavor to plug as many exploits as you can, shitters are frequent and they can and absolutely will destroy your server for their own entertainment
[B]6. do not ban people for doing things that pose no danger to the integrity of the server and its players (if somebody is building a sweet ass hobo base don't be a pedantic cunt and ban them for "building on roads" or some such)[/B][/QUOTE]
I've tried pointing this out to numerous admins/mods in the past but it's like they're incapable of saying anything other than "but its in the rules".
I'm reclaiming "SeriousRP" as my gamemode's name - since it was named that in 2009
(back then nobody really used the term like a branding with that capitilization as is the case with "DarkRP") - they just called serious servers "serious" or "serious roleplay server".
I suppose if I had released it sooner, maybe the current understanding of "SeriousRP" wouldn't have come to mean what it does now.
DarkRP is a gamemode
SeriousRP is a gamemode (still WIP)
"Roleplaying Seriously" is a way of roleplaying (or trying at least).
DarkRP replicated gamemodes often just changing the player models for jobs and the map with no custom made content really annoys me on gmod the same as you.
It doesn't really annoy me but it is a bit unimaginative. I'm surprised that people are still just making new kinds of money printers instead of thinking of new roleplay elements (or at least implementing some of the obvious things that have been thought of by everyone over the years but never really done or done properly).
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;51456819]It doesn't really annoy me but it is a bit unimaginative. I'm surprised that people are still just making new kinds of money printers instead of thinking of new roleplay elements (or at least implementing some of the obvious things that have been thought of by everyone over the years but never really done or done properly).[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. People should come up with new elements to allow people to do something different. Printers and plants are boring now and making slightly nicer looking printers isn't going to make the game feel completely better.
[QUOTE=iRyno;51457721]I agree with this. People should come up with new elements to allow people to do something different. Printers and plants are boring now and making slightly nicer looking printers isn't going to make the game feel completely better.[/QUOTE]
I see what you mean, I have played my fair share of DarkRP and innovation when creating new things is definately needed. Half the reason why I started learning glua.
[QUOTE=iRyno;51457721]I agree with this. People should come up with new elements to allow people to do something different. Printers and plants are boring now and making slightly nicer looking printers isn't going to make the game feel completely better.[/QUOTE]
people have, except the problem is darkrp kids dislike innovation and would rather play the same old shit day in day out, so servers with these new ideas usually die out and the ideas are forgotten
The only 2 server I know that have somewhat different from all RP server is Chronet and Santos
Not sure about PERP
[QUOTE=YoutoYokodera;51458260]The only 2 server I know that have somewhat different from all RP server is Chronet and Santos
Not sure about PERP[/QUOTE]
santos is pretty well coded but plagued by a godawful community
haven't played chronet
PERP was pretty innovative in its time but it got killed off by killslicks jewry and lack of good updates
[QUOTE=legendofrobbo;51458318]santos is pretty well coded but plagued by a godawful community
haven't played chronet
PERP was pretty innovative in its time but it got killed off by killslicks jewry and lack of good updates[/QUOTE]
Oh yes, the Santos community is painful. It is taken way too seriously and too many rules. Don't get me started on the interview and training process they have in place. The leaked gamemode show it isn't a very strong coded gamemode nevertheless something different.
Well I like the feature of it
But haven't played it yet since my engrisk isn't dat gud to pass the interview
At least they do roleplay
Where does game theory play a role here? You have to realize too, that people make simultaneous and sequential decisions based off of incomplete and complete information in these game modes. One has to consider as well what people think is optimal may not actually be the optimal decision. Then we have to consider that not all players are rational(Think PD scenario, not everyone will steal, some will choose no steal). Since we're talking about game theory here, what role does maximin strategy play here?
I know this is going to sound like SeriousRP it kind of is kind of not
Alright so there a jobs you can become like normal but jobs like criminals don't have to advert muy raid or anything because they are criminals they can commit any crime from murder to raiding whenever, the cops can try to help the city or be corrupt cops and bail people out of prison etc.
So it is kind of DarkRP but with almost no rules I would honesty make this kind of server so players wouldn't get bored what so you guys think of this
[QUOTE=MonkeyMen;51461764]I know this is going to sound like SeriousRP it kind of is kind of not
Alright so there a jobs you can become like normal but jobs like criminals don't have to advert muy raid or anything because they are criminals they can commit any crime from murder to raiding whenever, the cops can try to help the city or be corrupt cops and bail people out of prison etc.
So it is kind of DarkRP but with almost no rules I would honesty make this kind of server so players wouldn't get bored what so you guys think of this[/QUOTE]
1. No thief, terrorist, mafia, gang or any kind of offensive jobs, citizen can roleplay at those role themselves
2. (Optional) Disable the job display above player head
[QUOTE=YoutoYokodera;51461828]1. No thief, terrorist, mafia, gang or any kind of offensive jobs, citizen can roleplay at those role themselves
2. (Optional) Disable the job display above player head[/QUOTE]
Citizens should have karma to become certain jobs, one's with below 50 karma should get the ability to create gangs and buy masks or moneybags.
I think that using all the experience and karma levels shit is what kills roleplay.
Players should be able to create a society by themselves using what they have access to.
So you just balance this, choosing what the players will have access to.
I think a couple basic roles would be enough, kinda like real life major roles.
There are the citizens, the authorities, the politicians (could be the citizens themselves).
The players will automatically create a self-sufficient system and in most cases aid in rejecting the "bad" (RP) players and the BAD (HAX) players.
[QUOTE=ItsThatMatt;51458393]Oh yes, the Santos community is painful. It is taken way too seriously and too many rules. Don't get me started on the interview and training process they have in place. The leaked gamemode show it isn't a very strong coded gamemode nevertheless something different.[/QUOTE]
There's GMod servers with similar rules. Like PERPHeads and they are not whitelisted. Making a app is 10 minutes of work and reading rules 10 minutes and doing a interview another 10 minutes, full proccess 30 minutes. :)
Maybe we can make an ideal gamemode when GMOD 2 is confirmed and released ;)
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