Copycat uploaders on workshop - Garry's Mod

There seems to be a real problem on the GM13 workshop, with people uploading other peoples' content with no attribution and/or permission. There are hundreds of addons on the workshop like this, with uploaders being as flagrant as "I didn't make this" or "This doesn't actually work" but uploading things anyway. This happened a fair amount on gmod.org but at least that was moderated, but it seems like there's no such system for workshop. It's now become a hub for stolen mods and mingey contraptions, and as it is, I intend to try and keep all of my addons off there and would encourage others to do the same. Is anything going to be done or are we stuck with this? Personally, I would rather stick to svn and gmod.org, since all workshop has done is create a massive headache - we would be better off if it was taken down entirely from my point of view.

I spent a great deal of time and effort updating and improving many addons from GM12 to GM13 and maintaining them throughout the beta, including yours - which I will release in a big stool pack giving everyone the addons they need for building from the get go. Every addons is listed with the author next to it. This is a typical scenario if you ask me - many addons thought dead where revived and shared on workshop. And considering addons are profit free, I see no reason to do otherwise. The only thing I frown upon is if work done by "reviver's" or the original authors get unnoticed due to the lack of credit. And if your interested in your addons, pm me your steam id and I will share them with you. The same goes for any other author. Here is a list: - ACF Weight Tool (by TGiFallen) - Axis Center (by Wenli) - Ball Socket Advanced (by Garry) - Ball Socket Center (by Wenli) - Buoyancy (by Garry) - Easy Parent (Unknown author) - Easy Precision (by hunter_hunted) - Fin (by Q42 and Tad2020) - Gravity Hull Designator (by SuperLlama) - Ignite (by Garry) - Keep Upright (by Garry) - Make Spherical (by FalQn) - Measuring Stick (by Greg "OverloadUT" Laabs) - No Collide Multi (by Narkaleptic) - Precision Alignment (by Wenli) - Simple Prop Protection (by Spacetech) - Smart Snap (by Syranide) - Smart Welding (by Duncan Stead) - Spawner (by Garry) - Stacker (by Greg "OverloadUT" Laabs) - Total Mass (by TGiFallen) - Weight (by Spoco) (I'm also thinking about doing VisClip) Note: I have not released any of these during the beta. Personaly, I have tried contacting the authors so I can give them what I have done if they are interested in maintaining them - but not many have even bothered replying to my contact or plain ignored me, which I must admit slightly pisses me off. The only "successful" help I have offered is to the ACF team which gladly accepted my work.

I've already overhauled my tools ready for release of GM13, but sure, I'd be happy to take a look at what you've done. Please don't upload my stuff though. At this point I'm basically done with workshop and I would like to keep all of my things off there, not just because of all the hassle I've had to deal with on copycats, but also it seems the workshop TOS agreement is pretty bad (definitely not "profit free") and I don't want any of my work being covered by that.

Where did you upload them to? I haven't bothered making the PA vgui pretty again, only functional. And whats so bad about the TOS agreement? And uploading your stuff... well it doesn't really matter if you ask me, either I do it in a proper manner or someone else in some retarded form without giving credit. That's why I'm releasing a big unique pack that everyone will probably download to make sure proper credit is giving and the addons stay in there proper form - which if you ask me is a good way of protect the work of the authors. Edit: And ignoring workshop as a platform is ignorant. People are not going to hunt svn or github links anymore. That, for example is a reason I created a "asset pack" for my server which holds all wire/acf/spacebuild models, sounds and materials so people can easily enjoy my server.

I don't see what the problem is with people reuploading things as long as credit is given- people don't want to wait weeks or months for devs to get off their asses and fix their tools. They haven't fixed them in the beta phase of gm13, like they're going to do it any faster upon release. [editline]24th October 2012[/editline] tl;dr don't be babies about your code in a game on the internet

Well this is a problem. The issue isn't just with LUA but with models and addons too. The only way you're going to stop someone else from upping your work is by adding it yourself, and you get some measure of control over quality and distribution instead of absolutely none. I've reported addons that have been blatantly stolen work, one guy even had the gull to tell me that he was producing the content when he had used the same shots from the release thread. Addon is still there, getting downloads. Moderation would be nice, but the best form of prevention is good content distribution by the proper authors.

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38158561]Where did you upload them to? I haven't bothered making the PA vgui pretty again, only functional.[/QUOTE] I've already stated in my thread, I will only be uploading after GM13 release. This is so I can ensure that everything works properly on the release version and to avoid a buggy release (such as the ones uploaded on the workshop by others). [QUOTE=Tingle1989;38158561]Whats so bad about the TOS agreement?[/QUOTE] You can view the whole thing here: [url]http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement[/url] Here are the main parts that I disagree with, and that I lose control over if anyone else decides to publish my content: "You grant to Valve a... right and license to (a) use, copy, distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, modify, and create derivative works from Your Contribution in any media... (c) sublicense these rights, to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law." "Valve may choose to distribute Your Contribution for free and/or for a fee." So potentially an uploader would be freely giving Valve full license to use my work for whatever purposes (including profit), and whoever claimed to own it has the rights to earn profit from this. This is completely aside from the fact that regardless of the terms, nobody has the right to subject my work to ANY terms if it's not by my agreement. [QUOTE=Tingle1989;38158561]And uploading your stuff... well it doesn't really matter if you ask me, either I do it or someone else in some retarded form without giving credit.[/QUOTE] Good for you if it doesn't matter to you, but it does to me. Please don't upload my stuff without my permission. From here on I intend to publicise the fact that none of my content will be on the workshop, so there will be no confusion about where to find the legitimate version. I will continue to report versions of copied work, that's all I can do. If people continue to upload my content, I'll have no option but to stop supporting it, because I have no intention of putting in hard work only to have no control over it and have someone else profit. The issue with this is that that people are uploading outdated or substandard versions of my code, which reflects badly on me and I don't want multiple versions floating around that people will inevitably expect me to support. If I'm going to continue supporting my addons, this is something I haven't the time to deal with, and it's something I shouldn't have to deal with.

Yeah the T.O.S is a P.O.S. ACF will probally never be on the workshop because of the TOS and Wiremod : /

I think it's also worth making the point that anyone who uploads content to the workshop that they aren't the original creator of is violating the TOS part 4 clause c: "You represent and warrant:... that the Contribution submitted pursuant to this Agreement was originally created by You"

That right there is probably the attempt to stop copy cats... but I'm not sure how well Valve will moderate it and delete unoriginal content, maybe it was just the beta and sloppy due to that. And actually, code which has been changed and altered in its functionality is no longer the original content, which I know because have dealt with copyright lawyers. So strictly taking, all the addons I updated and improved are now my original content. But I would be a dick to not give credit to the 'old' authors. But neither the less, workshop will be the new garrysmod.org, and what happened there will happen here - its just common sense And I'm trying to create a "complete" pack of my self upgraded addons. And removing your tools from them would make it rather uncompleted... And I don't find it very nice of you to make me look like the bad guy who's trying to steal your stuff... which is definitely not what I'm doing here. Thanks to my work, many people where capable of enjoying GMod13 just like GMod12... which I might note, many authors did not.

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38158856]And actually code which has been changed and altered in its functionality is no longer the original content, which I know because have dealt with copyright lawyers. So strictly taking, all the addons I updated and improved are now my original content. But I would be a dick to not give credit to the 'old' authors..[/QUOTE] Nonsense. By your logic I could take any addon I wanted, add an extra function to it, and claim all rights to it as my own. [QUOTE=Tingle1989;38158856]And I'm trying to create a "complete" pack of my self upgraded addons. And removing your tools from them would make it rather uncompleted... And I don't find it very nice of you to make me look like the bad guy who stole your stuff... which is definitely not what I'm doing here. Thanks to my work, many people where capable of enjoying GMod13 just like GMod12... which I might note, many authors did not.[/QUOTE] I appreciate that you want people to enjoy GM13, but so do I... and what about the creators? You really have the cheek to blame me for making you look like the bad guy, and your argument is that, to paraphrase, "you want your pack to be more complete". All I've done so far is to ask you not to upload my code to the workshop. I don't think you need my help to make yourself look bad at this point.

christ it's a game

Sadly that is how it works. If you take a game like monopoly, change the name and add new functionality or change the existing - basically creating a new version from of it. It would be completely legal to sell it. And I know this because I've had to deal with these issues from some game designers I've worked with. Why do you think there are so many Facebook games that are basically the same? Anyway, I wont add Precision Alignment - because that is one chunk of an addon and I respect your wish. But the center tools are to easy to reproduce, if you want Ill make the same thing fast from scratch... but hence the functionality its suppose to achieve - it would probably look very similar. But in all honesty... what do you plan on doing about other people that upload them?

jesus you people are stupid (not you, Wenli) it's his addon, if he wants to retain some control of it, let it be edit [QUOTE=Amplar;38158693]I don't see what the problem is with people reuploading things as long as credit is given- people don't want to wait weeks or months for devs to get off their asses and fix their tools. They haven't fixed them in the beta phase of gm13, like they're going to do it any faster upon release.[/QUOTE] thinking of releasing an improved ACF, would you mind? so far the guns shoot nuclear dildos and the engines are all 48L v12s with infinite torque wait why am I asking you; if I upload it then it becomes my property lol

Lol, whats up with all the negative tags on my posts? Just because you don't like the info doesn't mean its not true.

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38159087]Sadly that is how it works. If you take a game like monopoly, change the name and add new functionality or change the existing - basically creating a new version from of it. It would be completely legal to sell it. And I know this because I've had to deal with these issues from some game designers I've worked with. Why do you think there are so many Facebook games that are basically the same? Anyway, I wont add Precision Alignment - because that is one chunk of an addon and I respect your wish. But the center tools are to easy to reproduce, if you want Ill make the same thing fast from scratch... but hence the functionality its suppose to achieve - it would probably look very similar. But in all honesty... what do you plan on doing about other people that upload them?[/QUOTE] Right... so you're arguing that you're justified in uploading my stuff because a) you altered the code slightly so now you own it, and b) disregarding that, you want to copy my stuff any way you can, so you're happy to rewrite it to copy it, and again claim it as your own. You're not really selling me on this "not the bad guy" thing. I think you're giving a good example of why original content makers would do well to keep their content to themselves. For people who upload my stuff, I intend to report them to Valve and/or Garry for violating the TOS, that's all I can do. As I said before, the only alternative is to stop creating and supporting addons entirely, which is what you seem to be encouraging content creators to do. This entire thread is giving everyone a pretty good idea of what the uploaders on the workshop are like, and how it will be used.

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38159194]Lol, whats up with all the negative tags on my posts? Just because you don't like the info doesn't mean its not true.[/QUOTE] Because you don't understand what a license is.

Meh, w/e - I don't feel like discussing that anymore. Ask a lawyer if your not convinced. Anyway... On the one hand I never planned or wanted to release what I did - because I know how people abuse free content and I wanted a unique server. On the other hand, people are begging me too, so GM13 feels like 12 on release. What should I do? Fact is, if the original authors wont upload their stuff, someone else will because the normal GMod users don't give a shit about external content - but only whats on the workshop. It's a new feature that is very user friendly. When a developer creates something and releases it - he is trying to reach an audience. And when your trying to offer something to an audience, you normally try to do what they want because your doing it for them in the first place, right? Simple marketing 101. So trying to be an old-school hipster and denying something new like workshop - is not what developers should be doing, so don't release your software at all, it wont reach most of the people anyway.

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38159364]Meh, w/e - I don't feel like discussing that anymore. Ask a lawyer if your not convinced. Anyway... On the one hand I never planned or wanted to release what I did - because I know how people abuse free content and I wanted a unique server. On the other hand, people are begging me too, so GM13 feels like 12 on release. What should I do? Fact is, if the original authors wont upload their stuff, someone else will because the normal GMod users don't give a shit about external content - but only whats on the workshop. It's a new feature that is very user friendly. When a developer creates something and releases it - he is trying to reach an audience. And when your trying to offer something to an audience, you normally try to do what they want because your doing it for them in the first place, right? Simple marketing 101. So trying to be an old-school hipster and denying something new like workshop - is not what developers should be doing, so don't release your software at all if you want to be like that.[/QUOTE] get it through your head; IT'S NOT YOUR DECISION

I knows its his decision if he wants to add it to workshop or not, but if not - then he shouldn't care about what happens on it.

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38159416]I knows its his decision if he wants to add it to workshop or not, but if not - then he shouldn't care about what happens on it.[/QUOTE] get it through your head; IT'S NOT YOUR DECISION

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38159364]Meh, w/e - I don't feel like discussing that anymore. Ask a lawyer if your not convinced. Anyway... On the one hand I never planned or wanted to release what I did - because I know how people abuse free content and I wanted a unique server. On the other hand, people are begging me too, so GM13 feels like 12 on release. What should I do? Fact is, if the original authors wont upload their stuff, someone else will because the normal GMod users don't give a shit about external content - but only whats on the workshop. It's a new feature that is very user friendly. When a developer creates something and releases it - he is trying to reach an audience. And when your trying to offer something to an audience, you normally try to do what they want because your doing it for them in the first place, right? Simple marketing 101. So trying to be an old-school hipster and denying something new like workshop - is not what developers should be doing, so don't release your software at all if you want to be like that.[/QUOTE] I don't know how else to get through to you... I am not asking you what your opinion is on the workshop. I'm not asking you any questions about what your marketing strategy is. I'm not asking you what you think developers should be doing. I'm telling you, do not upload my addons.

[QUOTE=hella pat;38159105]jesus you people are stupid (not you, Wenli) it's his addon, if he wants to retain some control of it, let it be edit thinking of releasing an improved ACF, would you mind? so far the guns shoot nuclear dildos and the engines are all 48L v12s with infinite torque wait why am I asking you; if I upload it then it becomes my property lol[/QUOTE] here's the problem; the acf devs don't give a shit. any of those mods released, people will find that more servers use the real acf, making their contraptions using that shit useless sorry bud, not gonna work [editline]24th October 2012[/editline] itt: internet spergelords go outside ffs

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38159416]I knows its his decision if he wants to add it to workshop or not, but if not - then he shouldn't care about what happens on it.[/QUOTE] So will you care when I repackage "your" addon pack as "Shadow's Stolen Megapack of Stolen Addons for a Mod of a Mod of a Mod"?

except you're missing the point entirely they're being released [i]with full credit to the original authors[/i] obviously uploading a tool and not crediting them is bad

Lol you can try. If the quality of my addon and the "strategy of my marketing" sucked so bad that a ripoff or re-post got more subscriptions... I surely did something wrong.

[QUOTE=Amplar;38159503]except you're missing the point entirely they're being released [i]with full credit to the original authors[/i] obviously uploading a tool and not crediting them is bad[/QUOTE] The point is you can't accept valve's legal agreement on behalf of someone else and their work.

[QUOTE=Amplar;38159503]except you're missing the point entirely they're being released [i]with full credit to the original authors[/i] obviously uploading a tool and not crediting them is bad[/QUOTE] I think you're missing the point here. It's not really the credit I care about, it's the fact that a) it's being uploaded on workshop at all and is subject to the TOS, and b) I completely lose control over content I've put my name to, and everyone ends up with different versions of my addons that I can't support.

This is the most stupidest discussion I've had in a long time. Wenli, I am more than willing to not upload a single addon of yours onto workshop. And even help report duplicates..., if you actually hosted the official one there. But dude, if your not on workshop you don't have any influence on it, so you cant control whats happening there. Which ultimately means exactly that happens what you don't want. I mean, its common sense that if you want people to use your version of your addon, that you are going to have to provide it. And people want your addons, so they will host and share it on workshop. Why cant you see that?

[QUOTE=Tingle1989;38159656]This is the most stupidest discussion I've had in a long time. Wenli, I am more than willing to not upload a single addon of yours onto workshop. And even help report duplicates..., if you actually hosted the official one there. But dude, if your not on workshop you don't have any influence on it, so you cant control whats happening there. Which ultimately means exactly that happens what you don't want. I mean, its common sense that if you want people to use your version of your addon, that you are going to have to provide it. And people want your addons, so they will host and share it on workshop. Why cant you see that?[/QUOTE] I am happy to provide my addons, but not on the workshop. I've already explained plenty why I don't want any of my content on there, and you've given a pretty convincing demonstration of why I would want as little to do with it as possible. Which parts of my explanation don't you understand? Also, I have no idea why you think that me uploading my stuff on there will suddenly give me full control over what other people do. By your own argument, there is nothing stopping anyone from claiming that they own any addon and uploading the "official" version. I had thought that if there was enough community goodwill and regulation then the workshop might become worthwhile, but you have completely convinced me that even with good moderation, there are always people who don't care about content creators and will upload their work anyway and find ways to claim it as their own. At least if I keep all of my content away from the workshop, I can keep some semblance of control and avoid people being confused over where to find it.