SFM PSA: Changing FPS Of Your Project - Games

Hey guys, I just wanted to make a quick PSA for anyone a bit lost regarding their render settings on movies. Almost everyone renders at 24 frames per second, seeing as it is the default and has a bit of a movie look to it. However, if there's rapid movement in your scene or you keyframe rapidly (such as fast moving mouths, see below), you might want to change up your framerate and render at 30 frames per second and adjust your shutter speed to be faster. A helpful setting I noticed in my render settings is the option to override my project framerate. Seeing as I started my project at 24 frames, yet I ended up wanting to render at 30 frames per second, this function was very useful to me. The function is perfect. There's zero frame ghosting and the audio is not offset at all. I highly recommend you check it out. [IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/layoff.PNG[/IMG] A comparison of mine that showcases the difference between the two framerates on a movie with rapid mouth movement in it is shown below. [B]720p 24f [HR][/HR] [/B][video=youtube;52sg0OO0dS0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52sg0OO0dS0&hd=1[/video] [B]720p 30f [HR][/HR] [/B][video=youtube;bICcmg3D6lk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bICcmg3D6lk&hd=1[/video]

As said, remember to adjust your shutter speed. Do so by taking your framerate times 2, and dividing one with the result. So for 24fps it's 1/48 = 0,02083 which you can see is what it's set to by default. For 30fps it will be 1/60 = 0,0167.

the most important part is that when you import your movie in, let's say, sony vegas, make sure the movie framerate and the vegas project framerate match or else you get ugly as shit ghosting [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qHH7Y.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rQSSV.png[/IMG] bad vs. good. 25 fps video, notice how the project is 24fps on the right. now, keep this in mind: the default value in vegas is 29.997 fps (television). i think you can understand that it's a pretty big mismatch

Personally I prefer 24fps, it being the "cinematic" framerate.

[QUOTE=Funny Hats;36924615]Personally I prefer 24fps, it being the "cinematic" framerate.[/QUOTE] It also looks like blurry trash. Stick to 30 FPS for the best look.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;36924734]It also looks like blurry trash. Stick to 30 FPS for the best look.[/QUOTE] That's your opinion an I respect it as much as I hate it.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;36924734]It also looks like blurry trash. Stick to 30 FPS for the best look.[/QUOTE] Lower FPS =/= More blur The blur you're seeing is most likely incurred by blended frames added to convert 24fps content to 25 or 29.97 or 30fps, which is a waste of time and space and unnecessary for online videos.

[QUOTE=TheDKer;36921921]As said, remember to adjust your shutter speed. Do so by taking your framerate times 2, and dividing one with the result. So for 24fps it's 1/48 = 0,02083 which you can see is what it's set to by default. For 30fps it will be 1/60 = 0,0167.[/QUOTE] Since his example used 0.021 shutter speed, I would be interested in seeing a comparison of 30 FPS 0.021 vs 30 FPS 0.0167 shutter speed.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;36924734]It also looks like blurry trash. Stick to 30 FPS for the best look.[/QUOTE] Both serve their respective purposes. As I said in the OP, more motion would look smoother with 30 as opposed to 24/25.

[QUOTE=Rayss;36927631]Both serve their respective purposes. As I said in the OP, more motion would look smoother with 30 as opposed to 24/25.[/QUOTE] A long time ago 23.9~ was judged as the minimum framerate before things got really bad, and we've stuck with that framerate even to this day (mostly, some smart directors are switching to 45FPS +) even though Hollywood studios have plenty of money. Yes, it can be used to create a feeling; but 24~ feels sticky and weird. When using a more natural FPS like 30+ it just feels better. [url=http://static.glitchvid.com/videos/sfm/scout_gameplay_30fps.mkv]Also, have a video rendered using 30FPS (And Max's stuff)[/url]

[QUOTE=glitchvid;36938029]A long time ago 23.9~ was judged as the minimum framerate before things got really bad, and we've stuck with that framerate even to this day (mostly, some smart directors are switching to 45FPS +) even though Hollywood studios have plenty of money. Yes, it can be used to create a feeling; but 24~ feels sticky and weird. When using a more natural FPS like 30+ it just feels better. [url=http://static.glitchvid.com/videos/sfm/scout_gameplay_30fps.mkv]Also, have a video rendered using 30FPS (And Max's stuff)[/url][/QUOTE] I stick to 25 because it's the European standard, personally. The reason some directors switch to to a higher framerate is because of the advent of blu ray video; because of the resolution, a framerate of 24 is not enough, especially with the trend of getting rid of motion blur. Unfortunately there's pretty much a "smooth video = homemade video = cheap video" thing engraved in our minds that is hard to get rid of :D

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;36939184]Unfortunately there's pretty much a "smooth video = homemade video = cheap video" thing engraved in our minds that is hard to get rid of :D[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's pretty much my mindset. In my mind, 24 is the go-to framerate because everything else looks cheap to me, even though there's no science to why 24fps would look more cinematic.

[QUOTE=Funny Hats;36939564]Yeah, that's pretty much my mindset. In my mind, 24 is the go-to framerate because everything else looks cheap to me, even though there's no science to why 24fps would look more cinematic.[/QUOTE] Your mind has to do more work to make all the frames connect, its mental effect. [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;36939184]I stick to 25 because it's the European standard, personally. The reason some directors switch to to a higher framerate is because of the advent of blu ray video; because of the resolution, a framerate of 24 is not enough, especially with the trend of getting rid of motion blur. Unfortunately there's pretty much a "smooth video = homemade video = cheap video" thing engraved in our minds that is hard to get rid of :D[/QUOTE] Euro standards are pretty interesting, specially with PAL vs NTSC.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;36942604]Your mind has to do more work to make all the frames connect, its mental effect.[/QUOTE] That's the silliest thing I've read all week.

[QUOTE=Funny Hats;36939564]In my mind, 24 is the go-to framerate because everything else looks cheap to me, even though there's no science to why 24fps would look more cinematic.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I wonder why that is anyway. There must be some kind of study that explains why 24 is seen as more professional.

[QUOTE=Rayss;36949137]Yeah, I wonder why that is anyway. There must be some kind of study that explains why 24 is seen as more professional.[/QUOTE] Because that's what's been used for ages. It's no more than tradition.

[QUOTE=Funny Hats;36942926]That's the silliest thing I've read all week.[/QUOTE] Its true, your mind stitches together the framerate to construct a "moving" clip, because normally visual stimuli are a constant. The reason you can have movies at such low framerates (such as 24fps) and not the 60+ needed for games to feel smooth, is because of its blurring, because it can combine multiple frames (or for cameras, more light) per frame, basically putting more information in less frames (why higher framerate makes things look "Smoother" its because you have more "raw" visual data in 1 second) 24FPS look professional because it has, and will for a long time be used in cinema, its more a trained effect: your brain goes "All good looking movies have looked X framerate, so X should look right" its like viewing the world at a slight tilt, you learn it, and when that changes your brain notices it.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;36951661]Its true, your mind stitches together the framerate to construct a "moving" clip, because normally visual stimuli are a constant. The reason you can have movies at such low framerates (such as 24fps) and not the 60+ needed for games to feel smooth, is because of its blurring, because it can combine multiple frames (or for cameras, more light) per frame, basically putting more information in less frames (why higher framerate makes things look "Smoother" its because you have more "raw" visual data in 1 second) 24FPS look professional because it has, and will for a long time be used in cinema, its more a trained effect: your brain goes "All good looking movies have looked X framerate, so X should look right" its like viewing the world at a slight tilt, you learn it, and when that changes your brain notices it.[/QUOTE] I see your point, I'm just not convinced it won't change sooner or later, preferably sooner. I, for one, am a fan of higher frame rates.

[QUOTE=Engy;36952148]I see your point, I'm just not convinced it won't change sooner or later, preferably sooner. I, for one, am a fan of higher frame rates.[/QUOTE] I am (obviously) in favor of higher framerates, but I don't see it changing soon at all, directors have tried, but the hollywood community, and most of the fans, just complain and bitch, 24 FPS is tradition now.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;36942604]Your mind has to do more work to make all the frames connect, its mental effect.[/QUOTE] No, it's because he's watched movies in 24fps his whole life, watching something in 30+ fps is automatically associated with not being movie-like. [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=glitchvid;36951661]Its true, your mind stitches together the framerate to construct a "moving" clip, because normally visual stimuli are a constant. The reason you can have movies at such low framerates (such as 24fps) and not the 60+ needed for games to feel smooth, is because of its blurring, because it can combine multiple frames (or for cameras, more light) per frame, basically putting more information in less frames (why higher framerate makes things look "Smoother" its because you have more "raw" visual data in 1 second) 24FPS look professional because it has, and will for a long time be used in cinema, its more a trained effect: your brain goes "All good looking movies have looked X framerate, so X should look right" its like viewing the world at a slight tilt, you learn it, and when that changes your brain notices it.[/QUOTE] Oh ok you basically addressed what I just said.

Silly question. Am I the only one getting terrible desynch between the exported image sequence and the exported wav? The image sequence is always a tad shorted/longer I have matched the framerates. Also the sound is matched in sfm (that end at the same time). Any ideas?

[QUOTE=aln447;39608103]Silly question. Am I the only one getting terrible desynch between the exported image sequence and the exported wav? The image sequence is always a tad shorted/longer I have matched the framerates. Also the sound is matched in sfm (that end at the same time). Any ideas?[/QUOTE] I'm having the same problems it looks like SFM modifies the fps, I've imported my 30fps image sequence to VirtualDub and changed the fps so that the video and audio durations match, now I can see that SFM changed the fps to exacty 31.285 fps.

[QUOTE=FictionSource;39676850]I'm having the same problems it looks like SFM modifies the fps, I've imported my 30fps image sequence to VirtualDub and changed the fps so that the video and audio durations match, now I can see that SFM changed the fps to exacty 31.285 fps.[/QUOTE] I set my SFM from 24 to 23.976 because that's actually the real 24, but anyway for me i'm pretty sure SFM rounds 23.976 to 23.98 which makes the audio just slightly longer but adds up the longer the video you have. You can see that it says 23.98 in the layoff log, so through the rest of my post work I make sure it stays perfectly at 23.976.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;36923776]the most important part is that when you import your movie in, let's say, sony vegas, make sure the movie framerate and the vegas project framerate match or else you get ugly as shit ghosting [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qHH7Y.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rQSSV.png[/IMG] bad vs. good. 25 fps video, notice how the project is 24fps on the right. now, keep this in mind: the default value in vegas is 29.997 fps (television). i think you can understand that it's a pretty big mismatch[/QUOTE] Actually, you can disable that shitty ghosting effect by right clicking on the particular blade in the video track, selecting properties, and bubbling "Disable Resample" and clicking apply. Matching up the imported video framerate to fit with your project settings is always a must, but this method of disabling resampling can yield some interesting results when your framerates don't match.

[QUOTE=haloguy234;40168435]Actually, you can disable that shitty ghosting effect by right clicking on the particular blade in the video track, selecting properties, and bubbling "Disable Resample" and clicking apply. Matching up the imported video framerate to fit with your project settings is always a must, but this method of disabling resampling can yield some interesting results when your framerates don't match.[/QUOTE] Select all the video clips in your timeline in Vegas>Right Click>Switches>Disable Resample Boom. Done. Every single clip has disabled resample. Much faster.