Hi. I'm a noob in web development. So, which do you think should i learn first, PHP or ASP.NET?
[QUOTE=Kimbra;42051218]Hi. I'm a noob in web development. So, which do you think should i learn first, PHP or ASP.NET?[/QUOTE]
ASP ehh, also people advice you to go for Ruby on Rails instead
[QUOTE=Killervalon;42051947]ASP ehh, also people advice you to go for Ruby on Rails instead[/QUOTE]
Ruby on Rails is a framework for the Ruby language, and it's not really fit for beginners (it can be deceptively easy to get started with, but it's starting on the wrong foot). The answer is learn Ruby, and then play around with something like Sinatra, as a way to get more confident with your tools and the ruby ecosystem.
OP - PHP is the easiest of the two - PHP has a lower barrier to entry and tooling so simple even poo mcbrains can get it going.
[QUOTE=StinkyJoe;42052239]Ruby on Rails is a framework for the Ruby language, and it's not really fit for beginners (it can be deceptively easy to get started with, but it's starting on the wrong foot). The answer is learn Ruby, and then play around with something like Sinatra, as a way to get more confident with your tools and the ruby ecosystem.
OP - PHP is the easiest of the two - PHP has a lower barrier to entry and tooling so simple even poo mcbrains can get it going.[/QUOTE]
Yeah normally I would just say PHP, but people dislike it and I would just get hate.
Also, when I say Ruby on Rails. I mean Learn Ruby => Ruby on Rails. railsforzombies also advices you do this in the beginning.
PHP teaches you so much bad shit I would say avoid it for as long as you can.
ASP.NET doesn't mean just one thing anymore either as there's WebForms (horrible), MVC and Web Pages. ASP.NET MVC is actually a very nice MVC framework and every new release of it sees so many improvements. If you have any experience with .NET development then it might be a better fit for you and Mono support for it keeps getting better and better.
I'm sure RoR could be a good starting point too.
PHP is easier - that's not a good thing.
Start out with Ruby and Sinatra and make your way up to Ruby on Rails. Learn it right the first time.
You should start with asp.net mvc. Microsoft provide a lot of the tool chain so you dont end up dicking around getting apache set up.
PHP isn't a great load of help if you want to go on to do anything serious, you'll pick a tonne of bad habits and won't learn anything useful.
PHP is pretty sweet for picking up chicks.
[QUOTE=SteveUK;42052364]PHP teaches you so much bad shit I would say avoid it for as long as you can.[/QUOTE]
The language doesn't teach you bad programming habits, it's the community that does it. Writing professional and optimized code in PHP is very much possible. Just because PHP gives you freedom with its concepts and syntax doesn't mean it's bad. We're not on PHP 4 anymore, things evolve and change. There is a reason why it's so wide spread as a web development language.
I'm not saying ASP.NET and Ruby are bad for getting your feet wet or general web developemnt, I just feel that PHP is getting way too much bashing than it actually deserves. In great hands PHP is awesome.
[QUOTE=Kiririn;42055459]The language doesn't teach you bad programming habits, it's the community that does it. Writing professional and optimized code in PHP is very much possible. Just because PHP gives you freedom with its concepts and syntax doesn't mean it's bad. We're not on PHP 4 anymore, things evolve and change. There is a reason why it's so wide spread as a web development language.
I'm not saying ASP.NET and Ruby are bad for getting your feet wet or general web developemnt, I just feel that PHP is getting way too much bashing than it actually deserves. In great hands PHP is awesome.[/QUOTE]
The language very much does teach you bad habits, as does a part of the community*. Writing professional and optimized code in PHP is indeed very much possible. PHP does not give you any more freedom compared with other "competitor" languages - that's a common held belief amongst PHP-centric developers, I assume as an excuse - in fact, PHP is very limited in many aspects; take its extremely limited object model, for instance.
PHP has evolved a lot, a lot of progress has been made, and a lot of good things are being built with and for it. That doesn't change the fact that PHP does nothing for you as a programmer, as a language should. In great hands, PHP is awesome, but so is fucking COBOL - I'd rather see those great hands make amazing things backed by a great language.
Source: Almost exclusively a PHP programmer for 4+ years ~ [URL]http://github.com/filp[/URL]
* I would actually say that PHP's community (not including the shit-blog type) is at a turning point where there's a noticeable increase in quality (of both people and knowledge), but a quality that's constrained by the language and tooling.
[url]http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/[/url]
I'll just leave this here.
Y-You could try and take a look at python as well.
my friends are telling me to go with PHP.. so i think i'll start with PHP. thank you everyone for replying!
[editline]5th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kiririn;42055459]The language doesn't teach you bad programming habits, it's the community that does it. Writing professional and optimized code in PHP is very much possible. Just because PHP gives you freedom with its concepts and syntax doesn't mean it's bad. We're not on PHP 4 anymore, things evolve and change. There is a reason why it's so wide spread as a web development language.
I'm not saying ASP.NET and Ruby are bad for getting your feet wet or general web developemnt, I just feel that PHP is getting way too much bashing than it actually deserves. In great hands PHP is awesome.[/QUOTE]
i will follow your advice! thanks :)
[QUOTE=Kimbra;42084597]my friends are telling me to go with PHP.. so i think i'll start with PHP. thank you everyone for replying!
[editline]5th September 2013[/editline]
i will follow your advice! thanks :)[/QUOTE]
.....Youu'll regreeeeettt ittttttt....
[QUOTE=Kimbra;42084597]my friends are telling me to go with PHP.. so i think i'll start with PHP. thank you everyone for replying!
[editline]5th September 2013[/editline]
i will follow your advice! thanks :)[/QUOTE]
You're choosing to put a roof on a house with a hammer and a bunch of screws instead of a nailgun and some nails.
[QUOTE=StinkyJoe;42085670].....Youu'll regreeeeettt ittttttt....[/QUOTE]
lol you are funny!
[editline]6th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42087789]You're choosing to put a roof on a house with a hammer and a bunch of screws instead of a nailgun and some nails.[/QUOTE]
i think that is more challenging! the old school way. but yeah, let's just see where this will take me. hahaha. you guys can laugh at me if i suck this up. :D
[QUOTE=Kimbra;42095788]lol you are funny!
[editline]6th September 2013[/editline]
i think that is more challenging! the old school way. but yeah, let's just see where this will take me. hahaha. you guys can laugh at me if i suck this up. :D[/QUOTE]
Your mind's made up so I'm not going to bother too much, but trust me, mate - I stuck with PHP, "the old school way", and you can't imagine how far behind I feel now that I'm switching 100% to other languages and tools - I said "you'll regret it" in a humorous tone, but I'm completely serious.
You're getting free advice from industry professionals, including one (ex-)PHP guy (me) and at least one Ruby guy (KmartSqrl) - might want to re-consider taking your friend's advice.
[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42087789]You're choosing to put a roof on a house with a hammer and a bunch of screws instead of a nailgun and some nails.[/QUOTE]
It's more like he has a roof already and he's trying to build a house under it but instead of normal materials he has sandbags and chainsaw to work with
It's not like you're stuck to one language when you pick your first to learn. Yeah PHP might teach him some bad habits and shit, but maybe later he will look at other languages and realise "wait, I've been missing out on that?". This is coming from a guy who's be programming in Java for the last 5 years and after seeing C++ more and more, is starting to realise I might need to learn something new :v:
[QUOTE=hexpunK;42098384]It's not like you're stuck to one language when you pick your first to learn. Yeah PHP might teach him some bad habits and shit, but maybe later he will look at other languages and realise "wait, I've been missing out on that?". This is coming from a guy who's be programming in Java for the last 5 years and after seeing C++ more and more, is starting to realise I might need to learn something new :v:[/QUOTE]
Yeah but why the fuck would you waste your time learning something with the intention of realizing that it sucks in two years. Just start on the right foot in the first place.
[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;42098501]Yeah but why the fuck would you waste your time learning something with the intention of realizing that it sucks in two years. Just start on the right foot in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, going for PHP even after being told it isn't a good idea does seem pretty silly. It will set him back if he does change language. It's not the end of the world, but it is a confusing as fuck decision...
Luckily there are thousands of web hosting providers who provide flawless support for ASP.NET, Ruby and Python. Because they are so wide spread. Ha.
[QUOTE=Kiririn;42098796]Luckily there are thousands of web hosting providers who provide flawless support for ASP.NET, Ruby and Python. Because they are so wide spread. Ha.[/QUOTE]
Luckily there's a great ecosystem out there for hosting these so you don't need a thousand different junky WHCMS hosts. Something being widespread doesn't inherently make it better, and anyone who believes that is a moron.
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[QUOTE=Kiririn;42098796]Luckily there are thousands of web hosting providers who provide flawless support for ASP.NET, Ruby and Python. Because they are so wide spread. Ha.[/QUOTE]
Why do you need thousands when you can throw something up on heroku in a couple of minutes for free?
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[QUOTE=Epiclulz762;42109648]No shit, I'm serious.[/QUOTE]
Exactly how much do you hate yourself?
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[QUOTE=Kiririn;42098796]Luckily there are thousands of web hosting providers who provide flawless support for ASP.NET, Ruby and Python. Because they are so wide spread. Ha.[/QUOTE]
IE6 was once the most popular browser. Justin Bieber is popular. The local high school bully is popular. Who the fuck [i]cares[/i]?
On a side note, people who write Python, Ruby on Rail and ASP.NET can usually host themselves and they actually understand how a web server works. Coincidence? Maybe.
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