C# limitations

[toaster468]

What are some of the limitations of C# before i get too serious. I have seen people make FPS games and it seemed to work nicely, and also do i need to learn XNA to draw sprites or other graphics? Any additional info would be of great help to me!

[Ortzinator]

It's slower than other languages for some things. Mostly games, but it depends. But for most things there is little difference.

And no you don't [i]have[/i] to learn XNA. You can use other libraries like [url=http://slimdx.org/]SlimDX[/url]

[toaster468]

could it be used for a simple game the size of minecraft? I dont want to make a game like minecraft its just the only game i know of with a huge map as it does

and is C# and faster than Java? I heard there was a massive difference between the two speed wise.

[gparent]

The whole Java is slow thing is usually bullshit claimed by people who couldn't write good code in any language anyway. Or people who do not know about the server VM, or who insist on doing complicated design patterns that multiplies your object count by 4 and accomplishes nothing.

Good java is fast. Good C# is fast. Bad Java is slow. Bad C# is slow.

And yes, you can make Minecraft with any language that is turing complete. The language doesn't matter, how easy and feasible it will be varies, though.

[ShaRose]

Yeah, as said it does run in a VM, like java.

And you need .net installed, but that's not really a big deal.

[toaster468]

Thats what i thought but since i dont know much of Java i couldnt tell the person on minecraft IRC that he was wrong. So if Notch would clean up the code you say the game would run smoother. Interesting...

[editline]03:23PM[/editline]

yeah if i ever make a popular game i would just hide the .NET in the installer

[gparent]

[QUOTE=toaster468;23625964]Thats what i thought but since i dont know much of Java i couldnt tell the person on minecraft IRC that he was wrong. So if Notch would clean up the code you say the game would run smoother. Interesting...

[editline]03:23PM[/editline]

yeah if i ever make a popular game i would just hide the .NET in the installer[/QUOTE]

Please don't. Make an installer with and without it if you must, but don't force me to download a massive package to run your game.

[toaster468]

So if people dont have the .NET libraries they wont be able to play?

[Overv]

[QUOTE=toaster468;23625964]Thats what i thought but since i dont know much of Java i couldnt tell the person on minecraft IRC that he was wrong. So if Notch would clean up the code you say the game would run smoother. Interesting...

[editline]03:23PM[/editline]

yeah if i ever make a popular game i would just hide the .NET in the installer[/QUOTE]

I think Notch did a pretty good job at Minecraft.

[toaster468]

oh and it is only 869 KB so it would only take about 2 minutes

[editline]03:31PM[/editline]

for an indie developer he did amazing, but i wish he would just use one update friday to increase playability

[Overv]

Increase playability? I don't have the most amazing PC, but I have a framerate of 500 or higher most of the time.

[toaster468]

well i can run TF2 just fine but it seems i cant run this game too well

[Ortzinator]

Well he could at least implement some occlusion culling.

[toaster468]

yea what he ^ said

[ShaRose]

[QUOTE=toaster468;23626139]oh and it is only 869 KB so it would only take about 2 minutes

[editline]03:31PM[/editline]

for an indie developer he did amazing, but i wish he would just use one update friday to increase playability[/QUOTE]

You are not seriously saying that .net is 869 KB. Maybe the online installer is. But the framework itself is quite large.

[efeX]

[QUOTE=Overv;23626114]I think Notch did a pretty good job at Minecraft.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I've never dropped under 100 FPS with fog off and the render distance maxed, and I don't have a super computer.

[Xeon06]

You're talking like people have never heard of .NET. I'll tell you, at least 80% of your target audience for your game will already have it installed.

[flyboy95]

I think half of the minecraft discussion in this thread is pointed at creative, and the other half at /game/

[efeX]

[QUOTE=toaster468;23625852]could it be used for a simple game the size of minecraft? I dont want to make a game like minecraft its just the only game i know of with a huge map as it does

and is C# and faster than Java? I heard there was a massive difference between the two speed wise.[/QUOTE]

By the way, minecraft doesn't render the whole map at one time. That's what render distance is for. And AFAIK for infdev it generates the map as you walk, not all at once (Which is why the save file gets bigger as you explore more.. Unless I'm wrong

[HubmaN]

[QUOTE=efeX;23630664]By the way, minecraft doesn't render the whole map at one time. That's what render distance is for. And AFAIK for infdev it generates the map as you walk, not all at once (Which is why the save file gets bigger as you explore more.. Unless I'm wrong[/QUOTE]

It does, which is why changing the saved random seed will start mountains halfway in.

[editline]07:47AM[/editline]

My experience in C#'s been limited to an implementation of malison for SFML so I'm probably wrong - but I would rather wish for a function type that can be used anonymously in other type definitions, rather than the current delegate declaration setup.

[turb_]

[QUOTE=HubmaN;23635116]I would rather wish for a function type that can be used anonymously in other type definitions, rather than the current delegate declaration setup.[/QUOTE]

Can you try and clarify that?

[jA_cOp]

[QUOTE=turb_;23636001]Can you try and clarify that?[/QUOTE]

Probably a bit like D delegates, where they aren't named (unless you alias), but still typed:
[cpp]
void setMyCallback(int delegate(int) f) // f takes an int and returns an int
{
...
}
[/cpp]

[HubmaN]

[QUOTE=jA_cOp;23636502]Probably a bit like D delegates, where they aren't named (unless you alias), but still typed:
[cpp]
void setMyCallback(int delegate(int) f) // f takes an int and returns an int
{
...
}
[/cpp][/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Ddrl46]

If you use XNA they will also have to install that stuff.

[Programmdude]

C# is slightly faster then Java, but lacks real multi-platform support, for 3D games anyway. Using C#(or .net) on non-Windows systems requires mono, and both XNA and SlimDX aren't supported because they use Direct X. Java has way more limitations then C# as well. As for .net framework being installed, all computers that go through automatic updates(XP+) have the latest version(or should), and Vista and 7 comes with it(2 and 3.5 respectively).

And to do delegates like that you do:
void setMyCallback(System.Func<int, int> f)
{
}

Supported in .net 4 and 3.5

[toaster468]

so do you have any small file size suggestions for a substitute for XNA for simple 2d games? I dont want people to have to download .NET and XNA just to play a 6 level platformer

[Programmdude]

Well, if you consider that most people have already have .net and XNA redist is only 8mb, it's not that bad, but SDL.net is slightly more difficult to learn, but is smaller at 1.3 mb redist.
[url]http://cs-sdl.sourceforge.net/index.php/Main_Page[/url]

[Xeon06]

Don't use that, it's hardly maintained anymore. Instead go for SFML.NET. And grab the latest version from the svn (2.0), 1.6 is deprecated and full of bugs.

[CriticalImpact]

You can use OpenTK to allow the use of OpenGL and C#. Apparently it works cross platform, but I must say OpenGL is a bit of a mess compared to XNA but I guess OpenGL is more of a raw solution compared to XNA.

[Anthony]

From what I have seen. Really good C# code can be faster than C++. (A guy I know wrote the same program in both languages and the C# one finished the task first every time. Ticked him off because he was trying to prove that c++ was faster.)
Also If you ask me C# would be better to use then java. Mainly because of [DllImport], It allows you to use functions in dll's that you can't add as a reference. Like dll's written C++ or System dll's.
Java might have something like that but I have never seen it.