Hellooo.
I am a mapping noob who thinks big, and this is the plan. A large-as-Source-allows map that is roughly similar to Grand Theft Auto, with more of a Liberty City or San Fierro style. If all goes right, this should be the best city map, and even allow for an entirely new GTA game mode. Schematic:
[IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/BJK51/76456465.jpg[/IMG]
Why am I posting this now?
Well, I cannot do this alone and need some companions. If anybody is interested, please let me know. I took care of all the leak errors, but now it takes centuries to compile and I haven't been able to test it yet. Also, I don't know the maximum map size exactly.
Those willing to participate will be given what I have of it now.
Well, first off, before you'll get any collaborative help, you'll need to post some screenshots of the work, since it sounds like you actually have work for it done.
As Scyze said, post some progress and your chances of getting help will be much larger (hopefully).
Well really it isn't much except for grass and water, :v: but alright:
[IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/BJK51/1-87345683427538.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/BJK51/2-32567325674867.jpg[/IMG]
How do I make objects show up from a farther draw distance?
You don't. Hammer is limited..like that.
I wouldn't have made this thread yet without a decent starting point.
Tools->Options->3d View->Model Draw Distance.
Tools / Options... / 3D views
The distances can be hacked farther through the registry.
Well. I just got my ass proven wrong.
You learn something new everyday.
aww... when i read RP_liberty city I INSTANTLY thought of the new one from GTA IV... turns out it's the OLD liberty city ..... :(
but it still should look good!
p.s. i realized now how hard RPing would be on the new Liberty City, unless you scale it down. you would need loads of players, and either a good computer or the map would have to be made low detail-ish.
You know, if you don't have too much of the area done, i think it would be cool if it would be made San Fierro style, like you somewhat suggested. If so many you could make an out of this world awesome city rp make unlike any other!
[QUOTE=Joefrert;15473891]aww... when i read RP_liberty city I INSTANTLY thought of the new one from GTA IV... turns out it's the OLD liberty city ..... :(
but it still should look good!
p.s. i realized now how hard RPing would be on the new Liberty City, unless you scale it down. you would need loads of players, and either a good computer or the map would have to be made low detail-ish.[/QUOTE]
Artificial intelligence driving cars and walking along the streets?
Sounds awesome! The artifical intelligence driing cars are awesome...
Would it be possible to program a huge light (sun) to change brightness over time for a day/night effect?
[QUOTE=BJK;15474673]Would it be possible to program a huge light (sun) to change brightness over time for a day/night effect?[/QUOTE]
No
Also as many have tried and failed, a map like this runs out of space FAST. If you're going for real world sizes of roads and buildings the max grid size is going to screw you so hard. I would have to say it's a fight not worth or maybe not possible to fight.
Imagine [url=http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=58584]this[/url] but with a heck of a lot more water, and just as plain. I like to imagine it possible. (and a much simpler skybox) Would fog make it a little less tense? GTA games have plenty of fog.
I'm thinking more in terms of how you're going to run out of space that you can't do anything about. The buildings in that map are very small but you can't really tell because they don't resemble anything you see in a real city. If that is the style you're going for, then it will work I suppose. When it comes to placing interiors in those buildings you might be a bit hard pressed unless you're happy to do more than a little bit of squeezing. For example, the real wtc twin towers were far far bigger than they are in that map.
If you're considering making real buildings with true dimensions, you may soon find out that you don't have all that much space to convey a whole city. One small small small part of a city is all that can be realistically represented.
By the way do you go to the atari forums?
The buildings will be really blocky, and an entire apartment/commercial building or factory building may be only six polygons, unless I want to add an AC on the top or something. Only very few building would have an accessible interior; gun shop, clothing shop, Pay 'n' Spray, the average GTA stuff.
Also yes.
I tried making a huge city map a number of times.
Just remember, if you are going to have a ton of buildings and detail it will crash while compiling.
Compile early, compile often. I have found myself wasting 5 hours of work on a map that got messed up. That is really frustrating.
[QUOTE=BJK;15488057]The buildings will be really blocky, and an entire apartment/commercial building or factory building may be only six polygons, unless I want to add an AC on the top or something. Only very few building would have an accessible interior; gun shop, clothing shop, Pay 'n' Spray, the average GTA stuff.
Also yes.[/QUOTE]
Heh 6 polygons. I think you're far off the mark with what you're doing. 6 polygons couldn't make a building by any stretch of the imagination, plus it's not how hammer's brush system works. You can afford a lot more, we're not talking rct3 cs here ;) 6 polygons for a building was a joke to games of the mid 90ies.
Since you're going down a way different path than I would personally, you may get somewhere, but I think you should wait before you do something like this, unless you really want to. Go for it but don't get ahead. How many huge maps like this are actually released? Plus it's not good for a new guy to actively fight the engine he's working with (I mean that source is the worst for these things by FAR, it's in no way comparable to how gta works), hell, it's a task anybody who's not being paid could give up on.
Bean-0 is correct. I made that mistake too my first time.
Here are some of my tips for making big, BIG maps.
[b]1.[/b] Func_Detail on anything and everything that can be, this includes:
- Things that don't block your view.
- Really small objects.
- Typically anything not square or rectangle.
[b]2.[/b] Add a fade distance to all of your props. (Except the VERY big ones, such as the bridge model you made.) The smaller the prop is, the smaller the fade distance. So things things like trees should have a larger fade distance in contrast to a soda can or a bucket.
[b]3.[/b] Use func_lod on brushes! This adds a fade distance to the brush. But beware, once it is func_lod, it cannot cast a shadow anymore. Use func_lod on brushes that:
- Does not need a shadow
- Cannot be seen from everywhere
[b]4.[/b] If a prop does not need a shadow, disable it. It reduces VRAD compile times. Also set your default lightmap scale to something like 18 and set the sun spread angle to numbers anywhere from 10 - 30. This will also reduce compile times.
[b]5.[/b] Be wise with how you detail areas. If you focus too much of your detail on one spot in particular, the rest of the scene in your view will look bland. And you'll waste system resources for nothing.
[b]6.[/b] Be artistic! Lighting is a big deal. Have an artistic approach to it. If a light needs to have a blue tint, make it a little bluer than normal. The same goes for yellows, reds, or any color for that matter. Also make sure you have a variety of lighting contrast, makes some areas darker, some areas lighter, and some in between. This keeps the player visually entertained.
[b]7.[/b] I will not tell you how to use it here, but look into using func_viscluster. [url]http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Func_viscluster[/url] And while you are at it. [url]http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Category:Optimisation_Brush_Entities[/url]
Hope that helps.
Forget about the last tip about func_detail, in this case it would not be as effective. Keep all large buildings primitives.
[quote]
1. Func_Detail on anything and everything that can be, this includes:
- Things that don't block your view.
- Really small objects.
- Typically anything not square or rectangle.
- Any buildings that are non-enterable. Even large skyscrapers.[/quote]
Do you have any clue how optimization works?
That last tip is horrible.
[QUOTE=Hostel;15492912][b]1.[/b] Func_Detail on anything and everything that can be, this includes:
- Things that don't block your view.
- Really small objects.
- Typically anything not square or rectangle.
- Any buildings that are non-enterable. Even large skyscrapers.
[b]2.[/b] Add a fade distance to all of your props. (Except the VERY big ones, such as the bridge model you made.) The smaller the prop is, the smaller the fade distance. So things things like trees should have a larger fade distance in contrast to a soda can or a bucket.
[b]3.[/b] Use func_lod on brushes! This adds a fade distance to the brush. But beware, once it is func_lod, it cannot cast a shadow anymore. Use func_lod on brushes that:
- Does not need a shadow
- Cannot be seen from everywhere
[b]4.[/b] If a prop does not need a shadow, disable it. It reduces VRAD compile times. Also set your default lightmap scale to something like 18 and set the sun spread angle to numbers anywhere from 10 - 30. This will also reduce compile times.
[b]5.[/b] Be wise with how you detail areas. If you focus too much of your detail on one spot in particular, the rest of the scene in your view will look bland. And you'll waste system resources for nothing.
[b]6.[/b] Be artistic! Lighting is a big deal. Have an artistic approach to it. If a light needs to have a blue tint, make it a little bluer than normal. The same goes for yellows, reds, or any color for that matter. Also make sure you have a variety of lighting contrast, makes some areas darker, some areas lighter, and some in between. This keeps the player visually entertained.
[b]7.[/b] I will not tell you how to use it here, but look into using func_viscluster. [url]http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Func_viscluster[/url] And while you are at it. [url]http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Category:Optimisation_Brush_Entities[/url][/QUOTE]
Thanks tons, this will definitely help. As long as fog is blocking it off, it won't cause as much lag, right?
Unfortunately an artistic lighting is not among my goals, because probably the best way to make it GTA-styled is dull and gray. This is not a style commonly presented in other Gmod cities that add trees, colorful buildings, blue skies, and the rest. :wink:
You should release a beta where one of the bridges is only half complete :D
Don't func_detail anything that blocks visibility (including large buildings)
That will just make performance worse.
[QUOTE=Lord Ned;15493456]Do you have any clue how optimization works?
That last tip is horrible.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it's very prevalent in a lot of Valves maps. (IE, the first time you go outdoors into City 17) It doesn't make a lot of sense when first thinking of it, bigger buildings would make useful VIS leafs, but the ending result is not as impressive. They don't tend to block your view of other entities unless you are up against them until you see nothing else. But I guess it's up for you to choose. It won't hurt if you keep them primitives. I am not completely sure of your mapping experience, but if you feel it's the wrong thing to do, please back it up with something than non-constructive criticism.
[b]Edit:[/b] Considering the density and number of buildings that are involved in the making of this map, common sense would tell me to keep them primitives. Eventually, the VIS leafs would do their work and cut off things that don't need to be rendered.
[QUOTE=BJK;15493944]Thanks tons, this will definitely help. As long as fog is blocking it off, it won't cause as much lag, right?
Unfortunately an artistic lighting is not among my goals, because probably the best way to make it GTA-styled is dull and gray. This is not a style commonly presented in other Gmod cities that add trees, colorful buildings, blue skies, and the rest. :wink:[/QUOTE]
Fog? Unfortunately, fog does not stop things from being rendered, if you are referring to the far Z clip plane, I would advise you not to use that unless you have no other choice. It is extremely unattractive. It works undoubtedly, but don't use it until you've applied my advise.
Even GTA games had a sense of artistic style. Chinatown has much more vibrant warm colors, not to mention every location had unique architecture.
[QUOTE=rieda1589;15496346]Don't func_detail anything that blocks visibility (including large buildings)
That will just make performance worse.[/QUOTE]
You are correct in this case. If we were talking about fewer buildings, then no. VIS leafs are not very intelligent. If you can even see fraction of a VIS leaf behind a large building, which is likely, it's going to be rendered anyways. But since we are talking about many buildings in high density then they should not be func_detailed, the VIS leafs should eventually do their work the first couple of buildings away from the player.
Would it be a good idea if I got GTA 3 for PC then used a modding tool to take the textures and put them in Gmod, or will there be copyright issues?
Also, anybody willing to try compiling it? I already uploaded all the files, and haven't tried to compile it since. Will again soon.
As for buildings that you can enter, I am thinking of making a room outside of the level (above it) with a teleporter, so you walk into a glowing arrow and it puts you in the building properly. (similar to Vice City)
As I always say, fuck copyright issues, when it comes to mapping and zipping your textures even if they're from other games, it's alright, providing it's not accessable to the end-user (well, pakrat, but it's accessable, sssh).
I'd rip them, but I'm lazy and I don't have the money to buy the game :v
I already have gta 3 and all of that. I can make a pack of textures for you. Custom content is the best thing in a map (well i think so).
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