as you can see im a newbie when it comes to hammer, I have a lot of questions. But what im really wondering is why the carve tool is looked down upon. Does it reduce framerate or game performance? and one more question, is there a thread that answers these kind of basics about hammer i can go to on facepunch? thanks.
[IMG]http://i31.tinypic.com/1zoynns.jpg[/IMG]
Red circles is where vertices could be off grid.
We have the help thread which you can ask basic questions on.
Carve is looked down on because of the way it divides brushes. It's better and more efficient to use the clip tool.
Carve makes strange aperture logos and portals to the void (micro leaks) :v:
[QUOTE=Zyx;31741406][IMG]http://i31.tinypic.com/1zoynns.jpg[/IMG]
Red circles is where vertices could be off grid.[/QUOTE]
does it make these vertices poke off the grid if you're using the carve tool for simple shapes like squares?
[editline]15th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=oskutin;31741586]Carve makes strange aperture logos and portals to the void (micro leaks) :v:[/QUOTE] what exactly do these leaks do?
[QUOTE=mcilona;31741638]
what exactly do these leaks do?[/QUOTE]
You can compare a map to a spaceship and the void is outer space. If there is a hole from the spaceship to space you got a leak and shit will hit the fan.
[QUOTE=Zyx;31741689]You can compare a map to a spaceship and the void is outer space. If there is a hole from the spaceship to space you got a leak and shit will hit the fan.[/QUOTE] alright, that makes more sense.
[editline]15th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;31741409]We have the help thread which you can ask basic questions on.
Carve is looked down on because of the way it divides brushes. It's better and more efficient to use the clip tool.[/QUOTE] thanks
[QUOTE=Zyx;31741406][IMG]http://i31.tinypic.com/1zoynns.jpg[/IMG]
Red circles is where vertices could be off grid.[/QUOTE]
Another reason is because most things triangular are bad. The neater it is, the better it will run.
[quote]elfy: Another reason is because most things triangular are bad [quote/]
I can think of many computer animators and game engine designers who might possibly disagree :smile: Users of Voxel grapphical engines might agree with you though!
To the newbie: A single carved object will have a larger impact on FPS than a single clipped object. Another reason to use clipping is that it's cleaner. Also, learn to use vertices (manipulation of a bushes individual corners and edges) and as this walks hand in hand with clipping :)
[QUOTE=Elfy;31753928]Another reason is because most things triangular are bad. The neater it is, the better it will run.[/QUOTE]
actually, sometimes you're supposed to use triangles. but only when both slanted sides are covered by something. like when you are making stairs for example. some people who are new to hammer will just make a bunch of brushes and lower the height of them to make some steps.
[URL=http://filesmelt.com/][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/stairs.PNG[/IMG][/URL]
[QUOTE=Zyx;31741406][IMG]http://i31.tinypic.com/1zoynns.jpg[/IMG]
Red circles is where vertices could be off grid.[/QUOTE]
The improvements don't stop there.
[IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/fix.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Beanz;31759011]actually, sometimes you're supposed to use triangles. but only when both slanted sides are covered by something. like when you are making stairs for example. some people who are new to hammer will just make a bunch of brushes and lower the height of them to make some steps.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you are saying because of course there are exceptions, most of the time if I had an option to use make things cleaner than lots of brushes and long triangles for more detail, I would go for the more optimized look and have a more detailed texture.
Also I've found the carving feature to sometimes crash hammer or create odd brushes that are invisible in hammer but not in the map
Who didn't realize this after using it once?
Why is it in hammer anyways? Does it have a good purpose at all?
[QUOTE=FullStreak12;31775307]Why is it in hammer anyways? Does it have a good purpose at all?[/QUOTE]
Valve still use it.
is carving ok for something like this? (2 box brushes)
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wHYKL.jpg[/IMG]
Using clip will always be more efficient.
[QUOTE=Firegod522;31776344]Valve still use it.[/QUOTE]
probably because they know how to use it correctly
[QUOTE=confinedUser;31797838]probably because they know how to use it correctly[/QUOTE]
How do you use a broken tool correctly.
[QUOTE=kaine123;31798495]How do you use a broken tool correctly.[/QUOTE]
It's not broken, just very simplistic. I believe it was left over code from goldsrc that they sort of still use. It can be fine for normal doorways, but in the end, clip will get you what you want, not what the sdk thinks you want.
[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;31799214]It's not broken, just very simplistic. I believe it was left over code from goldsrc that they sort of still use. It can be fine for normal doorways, but in the end, clip will get you what you want, not what the sdk thinks you want.[/QUOTE]
Carve goes back farther than that. WorldCraft (now called Hammer) was originally a Quake 1 map editor (I know, I used to use it back in the dark ages.) When Valve set out to make Half-Life 1 ,they had no map editor, so they hired the guy that made WC to port his tool to the GoldSrc engine.
All of the original features from the Quake version of WC (carve included) were ported over, and I don't think the carve algorithm has ever changed for an amazing 15 years. If you decompile the hammer executable, you can still find remnants of the original Quake WC and the original graphic splash screen.
[QUOTE=Beanz;31759011]actually, sometimes you're supposed to use triangles. but only when both slanted sides are covered by something. like when you are making stairs for example. some people who are new to hammer will just make a bunch of brushes and lower the height of them to make some steps.
[URL=http://filesmelt.com/][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/stairs.PNG[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]
Zomg, I'm so dead, I do my stairs like the one on the left. Someone kill me
[QUOTE=Elfy;31753928]Another reason is because most things triangular are bad. The neater it is, the better it will run.[/QUOTE]
It's actually faster to compile, and no different performance wise unless you waste geometry. Everything is triangulated by VBSP anyway, and stuff that is already a triangle gets ignored, making the compile faster.
[QUOTE=oskutin;31741586]Carve makes strange aperture logos and portals to the void (micro leaks) :v:[/QUOTE]
So if I were to make a Portal map, I can just Carve everything? :v:
[QUOTE=TCB;31802098]So if I were to make a Portal map, I can just Carve everything? :v:[/QUOTE]
I don't see why it took Valve that long to make Portal 2, are they not aware of this tool?
Anyways, I've never used the carving tool before. I've found vertex manipulation and clipping to be sufficient. I usually use vertex manipulation, just faster imo, but when I want to do something like place a brush inside a brush and need to cut a hole out, clipping is the way to go.
I haven't mapped in a while but I remember I used to use the carve tool but your right clipping is much easier and faster
[QUOTE=CannedBeans;31778400]is carving ok for something like this? (2 box brushes)
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wHYKL.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
no
the point is to never use carve , just completely ignore it.
I don't even know why the added the carve tool, I've never touched it
[QUOTE=Batnutz;31837110]I don't even know why the added the carve tool, I've never touched it[/QUOTE]
it's essentially the same thing as clipping but takes a lot longer due to you having to rearrange the vertices to fit on grid or atleast to where it looks good and doesn't make source bitch on performance
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