Bigger grid size? (12x12 -> 17x17) - Developers

Would it be possible? If so, what would need done? If done, could it be an extra hammer? Hammer 2.0? tl;dr Bigger grid size possible y/n? Would make flat maps more fun to play 'cause you get more space to play with.

If you're talking about the unit distance between the grid lines: 1. Open the .vmf in a text editor of choice. 2. Find the viewsettings block. 3. Change the value of "nGridSpacing" to "17".

No you can't make the overall grid bigger.

[QUOTE=Black-Ice;19227203]Would it be possible? If so, what would need done? If done, could it be an extra hammer? Hammer 2.0? tl;dr Bigger grid size possible y/n? Would make flat maps more fun to play 'cause you get more space to play with.[/QUOTE] Engine would require recoding as the hammer grid limits are a limit set down in hammer, but are imposed by engine limitations. Reports are that any larger than the grid and the physics engine doesn't work correctly.

[QUOTE=metallics;19229071]Engine would require recoding as the hammer grid limits are a limit set down in hammer, but are imposed by engine limitations. Reports are that any larger than the grid and the physics engine doesn't work correctly.[/QUOTE] I thought that it was relative, double sized grid meant half as accurate physics. At least that's what's been floating around anyway.

[QUOTE=SnakeFace;19229094]I thought that it was relative, double sized grid meant half as accurate physics. At least that's what's been floating around anyway.[/QUOTE] I was aiming to suggest with that sentence that I don't actually know, seeing as nobody has ever increased the grid size. I think you are thinking of shrinking the player.

This has been discussed too many times. I wish people would just accept what we have and live with it instead of creating a thread complaining about it every 6 months.

Yes, it's possible to make the grid size in hammer bigger. Open up base.fgd in the sourcesdk\bin\<engine version>\bin and change this line: @mapsize(-16384, 16384) To whatever you want. Keep in mind that you can't do anything with the extra gridspace unless you compile a custom mod to extend the grid size (yes it's possible, I've done it.)

[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;19229406]Yes, it's possible to make the grid size in hammer bigger. Open up base.fgd in the sourcesdk\bin\<engine version>\bin and change this line: @mapsize(-16384, 16384) To whatever you want. Keep in mind that you can't do anything with the extra gridspace unless you compile a custom mod to extend the grid size (yes it's possible, I've done it.)[/QUOTE] So if we asked Garry to increase the max. map size in Garrys Mod, we could make bigger maps?

[QUOTE=Lord Hayden;19229555]So if we asked Garry to increase the max. map size in Garrys Mod, we could make bigger maps?[/QUOTE] Yes, Pretty much.

If it's possible, why has no one done it yet?

[QUOTE=~ZOMG;19229845]If it's possible, why has no one done it yet?[/QUOTE] Because of the associated problems. There's a reason the grid is limited at where it's at just now.

[QUOTE=~ZOMG;19229845]If it's possible, why has no one done it yet?[/QUOTE] It's not necessary.

[QUOTE=~ZOMG;19229845]If it's possible, why has no one done it yet?[/QUOTE] How many detailed maps out there use the full hammer grid at the moment? And there is a reason why they don't.

It's a total waste of time. the .bsp format is the worst for big maps. Even if you upped the limits you're just adding to the problem rather than helping because of the way it works. Barely even works for what it's made for, definitely doesn't work for anything else.

[QUOTE=SnakeFace;19229946]Because of the associated problems. There's a reason the grid is limited at where it's at just now.[/QUOTE] The only problems associated with a bigger map is that the engine limits don't increase with the map size. The test map I compiled for the custom mod was 65536^3 and I had to increase the texture scale to 10x10 and the lightmap scale to 512 on all faces. I think the box alone used up 23% of the maximum allowed faces, which makes prospects of making a map with any sort of detail that large bleak. I heard in a news post of an early Ep1 engine mod that failed that increasing the map scale also reduces physics collision accuracy, but I never tested that. About the only two things it would be useful for are SB and aircraft.

I think it'd be far easier to scale down players/props dynamically (or not) in gmod. Rather than making maps bigger.

[QUOTE=rieda1589;19233671]I think it'd be far easier to scale down players/props dynamically (or not) in gmod. Rather than making maps bigger.[/QUOTE] Changing a few lines of code in the gamedll is easier than trying to shrink down every model in the game and the associated collision models. Collision models tend to fail the smaller you make them, and they have an absolute lowest size limit of half an inch square.

[QUOTE=bohb;19234453]Changing a few lines of code in the gamedll is easier than trying to shrink down every model in the game and the associated collision models. Collision models tend to fail the smaller you make them, and they have an absolute lowest size limit of half an inch square.[/QUOTE] By easier I meant avoiding source limits for entities, etc. They are limited for a reason.

[QUOTE=rieda1589;19236496]By easier I meant avoiding source limits for entities, etc. They are limited for a reason.[/QUOTE] Your reasoning makes no sense. If your props are smaller you'll need more of them to fill the area with detail, you'll need more props anyway because you wouldn't be able to create detail brushwork, without going off-grid and making a mess if you scale down.

[QUOTE=metallics;19230320]It's not necessary.[/QUOTE] I for one wouldn't mind a new flatgrass with a bigger grid space. Just means more play space. Also, it isn't necessary? CSC Desert is/was/used to be a great desert map, with 5 more square spaces on the hammer grid it would make it more fun, 'cause you're extending it and thus more fun can be withheld. Basically, I don't care if a big map has detail. It just needs to look nice, or not have much stuff, and be big. A big desert map with a small base thing on each end of it would be nice if we had a bit of extra space. We just need Garry, though. I'm not complaining (don't see how I am). Just asking if it's possible, and it would be nice if Garry did extend it a bit.

I'd love to have a 65536^3 map in Gmod, it'd make it so you could fly more than 50 mph and not have to continually fly in circles.

Exactly. A fun map doesn't [b]exactly[/b] have to be detailed. Didn't flatgrass get many downloads when it was first made when GMod 9 was still ze craze? Well, to be honest, an even bigger flatgrass would make that flatgrass be more fun. Then slowly as usual we get to detail.

I prefer to have content that just looking nice and having lots of space. cscdesert was smallish yet contained stuff, whereas atomic was big, empty and pointless.

cscdesert was actually full size (in a way it's hard to believe (if you've played cscdesert a few times and thought about the size) because it feels small). I was quite amazed. To make a map bigger you have to make it [i]look[/i] bigger. CSC desert was full/almost full size, and yet gm_construct_flatgrass_v5 feels huge and is probably the same. I would still like a bigger hammer grid (personally, I would like it bigger [i]just[/i] for Garry's Mod) so even though detailed maps wouldn't be instantly made, it would make simple maps (gm_construct_flatgrass_v5 (without the big train network (:frown:)) for example) more fun to play with their slight size gain. [highlight]Fort[/highlight] versus [b]Fort[/b] maps would be more fun especially because the space between them grows and thus new contraptions too can be made (I'm talking about artillery and flying things of course, because then you have teams practicing artillery and you can go higher too in a plane, which is a fun way to dogfight)

[QUOTE=Black-Ice;19264168]cscdesert was actually full size (in a way it's hard to believe (if you've played cscdesert a few times and thought about the size) because it feels small). I was quite amazed. To make a map bigger you have to make it [i]look[/i] bigger. CSC desert was full/almost full size, and yet gm_construct_flatgrass_v5 feels huge and is probably the same. I would still like a bigger hammer grid (personally, I would like it bigger [i]just[/i] for Garry's Mod) so even though detailed maps wouldn't be instantly made, it would make simple maps (gm_construct_flatgrass_v5 (without the big train network (:frown:)) for example) more fun to play with their slight size gain. [highlight]Fort[/highlight] versus [b]Fort[/b] maps would be more fun especially because the space between them grows and thus new contraptions too can be made (I'm talking about artillery and flying things of course, because then you have teams practicing artillery and you can go higher too in a plane, which is a fun way to dogfight)[/QUOTE] It's not hard to believe, what was hard to believe that the engine ran it at all. Maps like that are all ready pushing the engine capacity, it simply was not designed for doing that with. As has been pointed out, you want big open maps? go for the UT engine. [editline]03:23AM[/editline] flatgrass v5 feels bigger because it's so plain and dull.

Basically, I believe this is possible, but as stated before: it would cause many issues. Some of them would involve the engine crashing mainly because the engine already crashes when you get to near the edge. I just think to much coding would be involved to do anything, unless you have time and experience coding C++ in the Source engine. On the other hand, I do think it would be nice to have more surface area, and higher places to go. Using the Jet addon, I always seem to hit a boundary. Not enough space to take off, then once you do, you hit the skybox.

What's easier? Scaling every down to hell (and making it harder to map buildings and such) so maps feel & look bigger, or making the grid just slightly bigger? I [b]know[/b] that coding must be done in order for the Hammer grid to be extended (Valve stated once that they don't have to code the engine to do it, Garry can do it since his game is basically one giant mod), and I know that flatgrass is plain and dull (having a closer look at gm_flatgrass, it feels big at a certain height) but having just a bit more space makes maps that get a bit bigger more fun(ny) to play. UT engine? What is that? Unreal Tournament? Utility Trap? Ultimate Tricks? [b]wat[/b]. Yes, basically, I want big open maps, but playing the same open map that doesn't seem too interesting (even flatgrass is quite good to play on after playing so many literally flat maps) can get boring. If you add more space to that map, then it would be more interesting. (It's 15 minutes to 7, I've not been asleep, so I don't know what the fuck I'm typing. I'm just typing whatever my brain clueless-ly wants to type)

I think a mapper should be able to have more space to work with, as long as they can keep it optimized well enough. [editline]edit[/editline] Here is what I posted on the Steam forums: [quote] [img]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/BJK51/Hammer/58217473216.png[/img] [img]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/BJK51/Hammer/2134565453.png[/img] Green = very small towns, (maybe a few buildings each) and the yellow line is a road. If both A and B have the same amount of brushes & entities and level of optimization, then how wound B with the longer roads be so much more of a problem? My point; if somebody could lower average detail and spread over a larger area and manage to keep it well optimized, I think they should be able to do it. One can bring a comp to a rock-bottom <10 FPS within a 512x512x512 area depending on the density. What if it were over 10 miles of nothing but flat grass, surely this would get over 60 FPS on a fairly old computer without having a ton of errors, but it simply isn't possible because of the grid limit. I'll stick to Garry's Mod though I am sure it can bring plenty of advantages to other source games. Roleplay would be a lot more realistic if you had to make a longer drive. Construct would have 10x the building/driving/flying area. (not boating, I am sure Source cannot handle that much water) If there were two airports literally 10 miles between each other and nothing but flat grass in-between, it would make for an appreciative flight in a Source game for the first time.[/quote]

Yep. We start with simple maps and then get more details :>