Questions about optimising rp_downtown_v4c_v2 - Developers

[B]Hello,[/B] My name is Watri and I have been proffessionally mapping and editing maps for around 7 years. I have done so many downtown edits and it's always a pain in the ass because the original maker of the map is shit. I always have to redo so many things so I have decided to make an optimisation remake of the popular map rp_downtown_v4c_v2. I want the map to be kind-of the same, but just with better optimisation and higher skybox ceiling. Do you guys have any requests of fixes or additions I should include in the remade version? [I]Sincerely, Watri[/I] [URL="http://www.watrimaps.com/"]http://www.watrimaps.com/[/URL]

The map has lots of parts where the floor doesnt actually touch a wall and there are small gaps you can see through, especially around the apartments near the pd and fountain.

[QUOTE=Jelman;52032053]The map has lots of parts where the floor doesnt actually touch a wall and there are small gaps you can see through, especially around the apartments near the pd and fountain.[/QUOTE] Thanks, I'll fix it.

[QUOTE=Watri124;52032075]Thanks, I'll fix it.[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that you ought to show a lot of leeway in criticizing this map due to it's sheer age, and how experienced the mapper was when they first made it. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that there area wealth of edits that actually make the map much, much worse.

[QUOTE=Watri124;52032025]I have done so many downtown edits and it's always a pain in the ass because the original maker of the map is shit.[/QUOTE] I very much doubt you even know who the original author of rp_downtown was, you have no right to call him a shit person; Especially since you're directly responsible for perpetuating trash edits of the map and even profit off of it from your website (which is technically illegal.) He's no longer with us and I hate seeing awful mappers attributing the work of other awful mappers to him when he can no longer say he had nothing to do with them. I've been a mapper for 20 years across 8 different engines, I was there when he originally designed the map and I know from first hand experience it was not terrible garbage like all of the cancer edits are. Sure it was a basic map, but at least you didn't have off grid brushes, cancer textures and other nonsense. [QUOTE=Watri124;52032025]Do you guys have any requests of fixes or additions I should include in the remade version?[/QUOTE] Stop remaking it, stop spinning edits of it and stop being unethical by profiting off of deceased persons' work.

[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;52034284]I very much doubt you even know who the original author of rp_downtown was, you have no right to call him a shit person; Especially since you're directly responsible for perpetuating trash edits of the map and even profit off of it from your website (which is technically illegal.) He's no longer with us and I hate seeing awful mappers attributing the work of other awful mappers to him when he can no longer say he had nothing to do with them. I've been a mapper for 20 years across 8 different engines, I was there when he originally designed the map and I know from first hand experience it was not terrible garbage like all of the cancer edits are. Sure it was a basic map, but at least you didn't have off grid brushes, cancer textures and other nonsense. Stop remaking it, stop spinning edits of it and stop being unethical by profiting off of deceased persons' work.[/QUOTE] Facepunch people trying to find reasons to talk shit like always. Didn't mean anything personal against the map maker, I do appreciate his work but I was just expressing how annoying it has been to make edits. And no, it is not illegal. By the way try doing something productive instead of shit-talking and wasting your time. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming - Yeah no, he raises a bunch of valid points and you pull the hivemind card, also what you are doing violated copyright law, doesn't matter that the creator is deceased" - Reagy))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Watri124;52034780]Facepunch people trying to find reasons to talk shit like always.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you found a pretty bad reason, calling dead people shit. [QUOTE=Watri124;52034780]Didn't mean anything personal against the map maker, I do appreciate his work but I was just expressing how annoying it has been to make edits.[/QUOTE] You called the original mapper a shit person, there's no other way to construe that besides it being personal. [QUOTE=Watri124;52034780]And no, it is not illegal.[/QUOTE] Making derivatives of a map which the author explicitly said not to steal his work basically violates artistic copyright, plus there's the whole making a profit off of a derivative work which is copyright infringement, so yes it is illegal. [QUOTE=Watri124;52034780]By the way try doing something productive instead of shit-talking and wasting your time.[/QUOTE] Doing something productive would be making your own map and not stealing someone else's to profit off of.

[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;52034908]Yeah, you found a pretty bad reason, calling dead people shit. You called the original mapper a shit person, there's no other way to construe that besides it being personal. Making derivatives of a map which the author explicitly said not to steal his work basically violates artistic copyright, plus there's the whole making a profit off of a derivative work which is copyright infringement, so yes it is illegal. Doing something productive would be making your own map and not stealing someone else's to profit off of.[/QUOTE] In all honesty GiGaBiTe I 100% agree with everything you have said, but how was this guy supposed to know the original author is deceased ?? I understand that you probably might think that he should think before he speaks just incase of this very situation but he is not a mind reader. You are right on everything else though :) Edit: If the OP has been "Professionally Mapping for 7 years" he should have the capacity to make an even better original map instead of decompiling a downtown map's VMF and adding to even shittier edits

Go home boy you are not Mapper. If you are professional mapper 7 years why need do remake of some map? Do new one. Money for mapping Are you sure Valve agree with job like this?

[QUOTE=Cheroke98cz;52035107]Go home boy you are not Mapper. If you are professional mapper 7 years why need do remake of some map? Do new one. Money for mapping Are you sure Valve agree with job like this?[/QUOTE] Fun fact: Not only does it break copyright laws but it breaks valve's TOS...here is an example "C. License to Use Valve Developer Tools Your Subscription(s) may include access to various Valve tools that can be used to create content ("Developer Tools"). Some examples include: the Valve software development kit (the "SDK") for a version of the computer game engine known as "Source" (the "Source Engine") and the associated Valve Hammer editor, The Source® Filmmaker Software, or in-game tools through which you can edit or create derivative works of a Valve game. Particular Developer Tools (for example, The Source® Filmmaker Software) may be distributed with separate Subscription Terms that are different from the rules set forth in this Section. Otherwise, you may use the Developer Tools, and you may use, reproduce, publish, perform, display and distribute any content you create using the Developer Tools, however you wish, but solely on a non-commercial basis." Link to the TOS: [url]http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/[/url]

I do some time also remake of map for example de_chateau_turzo. But I keep huge respect to author of original. I am doing maps from start of beta HL2. I am doing models texture mapping but I don't feel like a professional.

[QUOTE=BeZerk;52035022]In all honesty GiGaBiTe I 100% agree with everything you have said, but how was this guy supposed to know the original author is deceased ??[/QUOTE] A bit of internet research would lead to the answer, but the guy obviously never even tried to find the original mapper to begin with. But even if he wasn't gone, person A calling person B shit because of the actions of persons C-Z makes person A look ignorant and lazy. [QUOTE=BeZerk;52035022]Edit: If the OP has been "Professionally Mapping for 7 years" he should have the capacity to make an even better original map instead of decompiling a downtown map's VMF and adding to even shittier edits[/QUOTE] He's also pretty bad with HTML. His website uses a template from html5up (specifically this one: [url]https://html5up.net/spectral[/url] ) which he violated the included license, which stipulates that attribution must be left in the source (he removed all of it.) Fortunately he doesn't appear to know what CSS is and forgot to null the attribution there. But you can see large chunks of the original demo code left in his edits, just badly commented out. Pretty clear he doesn't care who's face he steps on, as long as he can make money.

[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjdu_bV3P_SAhUH12MKHT9ADhgQFggkMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgamebanana.com%2Fmaps%2F192899&usg=AFQjCNFmG3xKAXFWZ8QPhgWSdCb2lWx8Fg&sig2=R7fcBqK9fZwEPdDzqFOVVA[/url] My remake of map. But is free :]

[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;52034284]I very much doubt you even know who the original author of rp_downtown was, you have no right to call him a shit person; Especially since you're directly responsible for perpetuating trash edits of the map and even profit off of it from your website (which is technically illegal.) He's no longer with us and I hate seeing awful mappers attributing the work of other awful mappers to him when he can no longer say he had nothing to do with them. I've been a mapper for 20 years across 8 different engines, I was there when he originally designed the map and I know from first hand experience it was not terrible garbage like all of the cancer edits are. Sure it was a basic map, but at least you didn't have off grid brushes, cancer textures and other nonsense. Stop remaking it, stop spinning edits of it and stop being unethical by profiting off of deceased persons' work.[/QUOTE] As a person who is quite experienced with mapping and editing downtown, rp_downtown_v2 was a pretty decent map. But it wasn't completely well made. rp_downtown_v4c_v2 (the one he's editing which has a different author to the one you're thinking of I think,) however, is pure cancer. It's an edit of an edit of an edit. and it sucks. it has everything you listed there and more. As far as rp_downtown_v4c_v2 is concerned, that's been edited so many times and trashed even more. I don't think the author of that one even actually cares anymore. I don't even think you can find him. [URL="http://imgur.com/a/ZZPH7"]My edit of rp_downtown_v4_exl for reference[/URL]

Nice job Stiffy.

I didn't know people were still editing this map.

So long as there's 12 year olds pretending to be drug dealers or metropolice, there will be trash edits of maps.

[QUOTE=Watri124;52034780]Facepunch people trying to find reasons to talk shit like always. Didn't mean anything personal against the map maker, I do appreciate his work but I was just expressing how annoying it has been to make edits. And no, it is not illegal. By the way try doing something productive instead of shit-talking and wasting your time.[/QUOTE] You could try being more productive and make your own map? Just an odd idea. Instead of pointing your finger at everyone else for being shit, or talking shit perhaps you should stand in a mirror and point furiously. In that situation, it will work quite well.

[QUOTE=Jackrabbit1;52042565]I didn't know people were still editing this map.[/QUOTE] Sadly

[QUOTE=Jackrabbit1;52042565]I didn't know people were still editing this map.[/QUOTE] I personally am tired of editing this map. I've gotten good enough to where I can make some really cool looking stuff, but because of this maps popularity the people I map for generally want edits rather than a full map. Still though, I make good money from it(enough to pay rent even) but despite that I still find it hard to work myself up to do edits of anything anymore unless it's my own work.

wait the pro died? i can't find anything on this

I posted about it back in 2012: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1187722&p=36163419&viewfull=1#post36163419[/url] Again, it was an unverified account from a friend of his that relayed it to me. While I did play a lot of games and do some dev work with him, I never knew his real name so I couldn't do more research. I'd love to see him rise from the grave, but it's been almost 7 and a half years since anyone has seen him anywhere so I'm going to assume the story was truthful.

You could just fix the horrible brushes and at least optimize it a little bit, and just make it a better base map for more edits. But it's just going to give easier access to small server owners, to make their "custom" edits.

The original map had a source release, the problem is the continual edits on top of edits which slowly turns the map to cancer. Even if a new version was made to fix the cancer, it would just turn into cancer again because people would want the additions someone else made instead of the fixed version and repeat the original problem ad nauseum of decompile edits.

[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;52054309]The original map had a source release, the problem is the continual edits on top of edits which slowly turns the map to cancer. Even if a new version was made to fix the cancer, it would just turn into cancer again because people would want the additions someone else made instead of the fixed version and repeat the original problem ad nauseum of decompile edits.[/QUOTE] I agree 100% if people really want to get a better rp map, just make your own or hire a mapper.

[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;52034284]He's no longer with us [/QUOTE] I don't mean to be rude by asking this but how do you know he's dead? All I found out was that he hasn't been active on Steam or FP for years. That doesn't mean a person is dead. If you knew him personally or have some inside knowledge, that's a different case. Hobbies come and go, I don't see myself using Steam 10 years from now.

[QUOTE=Uberpro;52054407]I don't mean to be rude by asking this but how do you know he's dead? All I found out was that he hasn't been active on Steam or FP for years. That doesn't mean a person is dead.[/QUOTE] Already explained and linked above an explanation. [QUOTE=Uberpro;52054407]Hobbies come and go, I don't see myself using Steam 10 years from now.[/QUOTE] People who migrate to different areas of the internet or even stop using it don't vanish without a trace.

[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;52055168]Already explained and linked above an explanation. People who migrate to different areas of the internet or even stop using it don't vanish without a trace.[/QUOTE] Edward snowden eat your heart out

[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;52050847]I posted about it back in 2012: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1187722&p=36163419&viewfull=1#post36163419[/url] Again, it was an unverified account from a friend of his that relayed it to me. While I did play a lot of games and do some dev work with him, I never knew his real name so I couldn't do more research. I'd love to see him rise from the grave, but it's been almost 7 and a half years since anyone has seen him anywhere so I'm going to assume the story was truthful.[/QUOTE] Oh wow, an old post of mine (not the thread op). I had heard something related to a story of his passing as well from another friend of mine who is no longer on steam, but people thought I was bullshitting. I actually enjoyed seeing ThePro's work, people will say what they want, but I enjoyed it.

if you edit downtown, I will haunt every future vmf you create. KnightVista ~▒▒▒░░░░░░░░░░▄▐░░░░ ~▒░░░░░░▄▄▄░░▄██▄░░░ ~░░░░░░▐▀█▀▌░░░░▀█▄░ ~░░░░░░▐█▄█▌░░░░░░▀█▄ ~░░░░░░░▀▄▀░░░▄▄▄▄▄▀▀ ~░░░░░▄▄▄██▀▀▀▀░░░░░ ~░░░░█▀▄▄▄█░▀▀░░░░░░ ~░░░░▌░▄▄▄▐▌▀▀▀░░░░░ ~░▄░▐░░░▄▄░█░▀▀░░░░░ ~░▀█▌░░░▄░▀█▀░▀░░░░░ ~░░░░░░░░▄▄▐▌▄▄░░░░░ ~░░░░░░░░▀███▀█░▄░░░ ~░░░░░░░▐▌▀▄▀▄▀▐▄░░░ ~░░░░░░░▐▀░░░░░░▐▌░░ ~░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░█░░ ~░░░░░░▐▌░░░░░░░░░█░ ~ June 2009 ~ posts