griefing is bad, tc raiding is worse! Fix tc dropping loot again! - Rust

I just don't understand you here facepunch. You implement the tool cupboard to prevent people from griefing you, now you can manage upkeep with your tc, but you also reverted the no-loot drop when destroyed? Now you give them something worse than griefing, they destroy your tc and gone is your base! Fix this, please, you are destroying your players with this!

Make Tool Cupboards stronger, but make it so they can't be locked. You can store upkeep in them, but people can steal 'em. Even if its locked, its 20 or 25 handmade shells and one eoka pistol to break it. Hardly an effort. If they were tough to break and you could access the loot in them no matter what, why break it? Maybe have 1 or 2 slots called "Emergency" for a single stack of stone or metal, say, so if your base gets looted, you have "Reserves" for upkeep. These "emergency" materials can't be taken out once put in.

I dont agree with you much but this is why im not playing right now. Im totally good on building, no grinding up a base for some idiot to TC raid and wake up to no base at all. Upkeep has ruined the game. I know plenty of people who have stopped playing because of the upkeep/tc issues

If they get to your TC, your base sucks, or they raided you well. It's how you play the game. I do think they should bring back loot drops and a boost to health on the TC would be nice. I think TC is a good feature because; 1: it keeps players active, 2: it gets rid of old bases through decay, (Nobody likes old stone squares blocking the view.). A few things I would like changed are; 1: the health, 2: the loot drop, 3: the upkeep should be reduced.

I agree. I build bases that are at least 20 satchels to get in (something like 8-10 rockets) but I really try to go for 30-40 satchels or 18+ rockets. If someone can get into that and break my TC - tbh they deserve all the loot and the glory. (as long as they were not cheating or ESP-ing) If you build a silly 3x3x3 base with 1 stone wall to loot/TC (or 2 sheet doors) - you deserve to have no base in the morning...

I have just back into playing after a couple month long break ( work has been keeping me away). I do agree that upkeep system has changed how raids are carried out. Correct me if I am wrong, before the upkeep system, raiders would raid the base, and if they came across you TC, they would replace it with their own, and replace all the doors. This would not only precent other players from using it, but they would get an extra base in the process. All they had to do was open and close the doors to stop the decay. Now, like what Stoner Jezus said, bases are not really "captured" anymore. Bases are taken and left to decay. The upkeep system rather makes capturing bases less of a priority. After all, if you capture a base, now you have to put resources into that base. To completely remove the threat of someone using a the base, it is just easier to let it decay. Is this all correct? (Like I said, I just started playing Rust again after a break, so I maybe out of the loop how raids are done now.)

Having an unlocked tc would be the same as someone tc raiding you. They would steal out the res's and your base would still decay.

я предлагал сделать гниение медленней. и да надо в шахматном порядке. одна часть с верху начинает гнить другая снизу. но все равно быстрее будет распадаться с верху. как бы рандом. ты вроде закроешь верхние части. вдруг снизу сломается блок.

How about making TC health scale to what materials are inside so it takes way longer to break.

How about thinking outside the box if you don't want your TC destroyed? I already wrote in my previous post on how to do that...zzzz

How about this? If the raiders replace your TC then its all over but, if they leave it to decay, the base remains at 50% until your next login (or a reasonable amount of time has passed, like 4 days or so). Loosing a base to an emptied TC is worse than griefing.

you realize there is no difference between a "replaced TC" and "base left to decay"? Usually if I want to destroy someone's base (i.e - they built too close to me, or they are roof camping) I will blow their TC, place mine, lock it, and let their base decay...

I had not gone so far as thinking to place my own TC in their base to make even more certain its destruction. I am actually a nice guy. By "replaced TC" I meant the base was captured and used by them (and not disappear, probably), allowing me to try and recapture it. Cannot recapture a Poofff-ed up base!

ok yes, so then you didn't fully understand, and I guess I cant blame you. like 99% of the time if raiders "took the effort" to get to your TC they will replace it with their own empty one, that is locked. To make sure your base decays. Takes the load off the server, and reduces the server queues if you end up being "raided off the server".

It should not be like a raid means you are forced to build a new base. The tc is in here to prevent griefing, but how it works now is even worse, you loose your whole base. If the TC did not drop loot like it was in the first place, players will not go that fast for tc because it has no point searching and breaking a tc if you only get building privilege back.

agreed... before if you were raided, you could return to your raided base and use it again, either as a temporary base or to rebuild it. Now when you return, you're lucky if the whole thing hasn't just disappeared. There should be no loot given from a destroyed TC.

no, there is still a lot of point to it... TC now gives a "strategy" (a meta - if you will) of how to raid a base... Like if there is a base with an armored door(s), but you can figure out a way to get to TC first - you can blow the TC - replace with yours and put all the mats back except for HQM - so the armored door(s) decay off, while the rest of the base stays in your control, and protected... This adds a whole another dimension to creativity of raiding (remember the word everyone keeps complaining about the "lack of").

Hmm...I never saw destroying a base as part of griefing. I always assumed that destroying and/or taking over a base was always part of Rust. To me griefing is not necessarily destroying, but doing something that makes it unsable to a pain to deal with. For example, let's say that tc's did not exist. Putting s high external wall in front of someone's door so they can't get out, or putting huge wooden signs over windows on another players base would griefing. At least to me. Hmm...interesting point of view on the new meta for raiding. So, correct me if I am wrong, but what you are saying is that raiding has turned into somewhat of a mind game between the raiders and defenders. Beforehand, if the loot and the TC's were in seperate rooms, raiders would be happier to find the loot rather than the TC. Sure taking the TC would give control of the base to the raiders, but they would have to still go through the other doors to get to the loot. If they did not bring explosives with them, this would mean that they would have to craft more, which risks more time for the base ownet to get on or for thme to be counter raided. With the upkeep system, this has now changed. The TC seems to be the main target rather than the Loot Room. If the raiders find the loot room first, they need to still get through metal doors, which would require explosives (or pick axes if they choose to go through stone). If they get to the TC, now they have two optons to get to the loot. They can either go in quickly, but expensively, and go through additional metal doors. Or they can risk waiting owner to come on by letting the metal doors to decay. Is this all correct?

its definitely a mind game. Or a strategy. Or a metagame (hence the term "meta"), like in StarCraft, or DOTA, or any other MMO. No, not before. Rather before and now as well. It was always like this. The whole upkeep and TC/decay just changed how you can get to the loot. You can raid to it, or you can maybe "decay to it". Like I said it all depends on a lot of things/factors (hence its a somewhat complicated meta): depending on what time of the day it is now and what it will it be in "x" amount of hours (i.e 5 hrs. time for stone to decay), whats the server pop and what day of the week it is and of course how the base is build and how many people are "playing in it". (how many bags). You may choose to just blow in to the loot, or try to get to TC or both. If noobs build loot room and TC room together = you just kill 2 birds (3 actually) with one stone, and also can eliminate their base by placing your own (sealed) TC. In other words you need to make a calculated decision on what you wanna do and how you want to raid. I mean its just like any other raid - except the TC/decay gives another option/dimention on how you can achieve your goal. IMHO more options = more creativity = good for the game.

Alright, thank you for the explination. That really helps put things in perspective. My apologies if asked to many questions. I am historian (well museum curator technically), so it is part of my job to research things indepth and to make sure I understand other people's perspectives haha.

I think TC should be indestructible, sure that might seem dumb but hear me out. So your TC can't be broken it can still decay however, if they want to camp my base and make it so I cannot refill materials and my base decays fine. But my Base should not be able to be taken control of by raiders! You raided my base? ~ cool go smash my doors take my loot, crush my loot boxes steal my furnaces, but the base remains! This would make the game much more fun! And if you are one of those douchebags that likes griefing bases than you will have to work harder to do it!

NO

I want to make a big shout-out to rust, and thank them for listening Grief protection Andre has added a valuable feature to tool cupboards to prevent decay raiding. When destroyed, instead of spitting out the resources inside, cupboards will now commit those resources to the upkeep time. This time is maxed out to 24 hours by default, however, server owners can shift this if they prefer using the new upkeep_grief_protection convar. And, for all you clever tricksters out there, you cannot simply destroy one cupboard, place another, then destroy that one in attempts to reset the upkeep timer. Grief protection cannot be triggered multiple times by repeatedly destroying cupboards.

well this is a good thing but what about sulfer and GP they put in the dam TC i'v raided many bases where they got no GP at all in boxes then got the jackpot in the TC, we need a new update for that or the game is going to be auto loot despawner after raid!!

thats just one of the next things they have to fix, I won't disagree on that putting rescources inside the tc that are not needed for upkeep is bad. Destroying a tc to get an easy raid is just the worse thing they made possible, and got fixed finaly It should not be like you have to rebuild everything when you got raided, that makes players leave.

I mean you'll still be able to destroy the TC and place your own (empty one) to take control of the building area. Then either wall it off, or put down some doors (in the place of those you've blown up) and then the base will just take 24hrs longer to decay. Or the owner would have to use explosives to blow back into the TC room, to take back control. New meta: replace TC and seal it in metal... GG. (prior to that I used to just seal it in stone)

I think it's a good change, in most cases I think it will help too. People either raid for loot or raid to remove players. If they are raiding to remove, then there is nothing you are going to do about it anyway because the person raiding will finish the job one way or another, and that goes for any system you have in place. I don't think that is what people have an issue with - It's the loot raids where it isn't personal and player just wants your stuff, those raids are far more common and the foundation wiping is an unintentional consequence rather than a goal. Good example of how the game is still quite liquid in some respects, so to never trust that things will always just be as they are! Good ideas seem to oneup 'deal with it' which I think is awesome, love the devs. </brownoseing>

agreed, but luckily I don't have that cancerous players on my server that takes the base, they only raid for loot. Now at least you can retake or patch up your base again, that are 3 steps in the right direction.

Since the TCs are there to mantain the base, if they are destroyed the base should start decaying immediately, period. Otherwise the whole system becomes unrealistic and illogical. When raiding enemies the main objective is to get to their cupboard to make their base decay. It's up to the base's designer to make sure the TC is as hard to reach as possible. The TC not giving its loot when destroyed also makes no sense, since all other container-type items do. I'd be OK with them making the TCs stronger, but the way this update is being implemented breaks the whole logic of the upkeep system.

For you yes, for builders and players that got raided this gives us 24 more hours to get our base back before it decays, and you just have to spend more to get to the loot. Now it's just waiting untill they only allow you to put the rescources needed into the TC, and it works fine.