So after a good while of playing around with the various toys from this update, i have come to the conclusion that the Demoman's unlocks are definitely lackluster compared to the Soldier's.
The Direct Hit is an awesome new way to play the soldier, i actually sort of disliked playing as the soldier before this update. Now i love it. Instead of focusing on splash damage you have to aim exactly where you what to deal damage which is difficult but rewarding.
The buff banner is probably the most useful unlock in the entire game. One soldier with it can single-handedly lead his team on a huge push to the end of the map (i've seen this happen on my team numerous times on CP maps, it's fucking awesome).
The pickaxe is, in my opinion, twice as useful compared to the shovel mainly due to the speed increase it gives. If you're low on health just retreat with the axe to a health kit, or go kamikaze and beat the fuck out of a bunch of people since it's basically a 1 hit kill if you're on low health. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf the run speed bonus it gives because it's just so awesome.
But then i played with the demoman unlocks and i was kind of disappointed. I'm going to make a list because it'll make my argument more cohesive.
Before you go and get all huffy and decide to call me an idiot, please note that i think the sword is a cool weapon. I owned a few people with it and it was all good and fun. But in the end what it comes down to is effectiveness. In a pubbie match where nobody is really skilled it's a fun way to go around beating up people. But in a real match with people who know what they're doing, the Targe is just not a smart choice. You're left with your dinky grenade launcher or your melee weapon, both of which can be easily outgunned.
[b]Problem 1[/b]: The Targe and the Sword are 'linked'. If you use the Targe without the sword you don't get a damage boost to your melee. Why is this bad? It goes against the whole principle behind unlocks. With ANY other class you can mix and match unlocks. No unlocks are dependent on others, EXCEPT for the Targe and the Sword. Right off the bat this limits your loadout abilities. You could choose to equip the Targe and not the sword, but then you lose the perks of having increased melee damage with charges (which can only be a bad thing since you rely on melee as your way to deal damage with the Targe). If you take the sword without the Targe, you still have the ability to regain health. But it's much less likely to happen since the Targe is what lets you get up close and actually deal damage with the sword. Without it, you'll rarely be able to pull off a melee kill without being spotted at a distance and blown to bits before you can reach the enemy. It's just common sense - either you use the Targe/Sword combo, or you don't. This really shouldn't be the case. Imagine if Valve made other class unlocks depend on eachother. What if Natascha only slowed down enemies if you had the Sandvich as your secondary weapon? It's basically the same scenario.
[b]Problem 2[/b]: Why the hell did Valve even consider giving the demoman a sword and shield? The role of the demoman class is to guard areas (on defense) and clear out sentry nests (on offense). I realize unlocks are supposed to help you play a class differently, but how exactly are we supposed to play as the demoman with the Shield and sword? Thus far all i've seen is retards running around in broad daylight wildly swinging their swords around hoping to get a kill. It works at the moment because 90% of the server is playing as either the demoman or a soldier. Once the dust settles and people go back to playing as the class they are good at, demomen using the Targe will be easy targets for snipers, heavies, scouts, sentry guns, and basically any class that can deal high amounts of non-explosive damage in short amounts of time. The demoman is supposed to be a class that explodes shit using weaponry that doesn't move in straight lines. Why did Valve turn it into a gimmicky skirmisher melee class? How does that benefit your team in the slightest in terms of defence? You could argue that "the Targe is an excellent defensive weapon", and yes i would agree. But the same can be said about the scout's scattergun. What sets the demoman apart from other classes is his weaponry that allows him to destroy defenses easier and set traps. The targe really doesn't excel at either of these. It's just a melee weapon with longer reach and a short speed boost.
[b]Problem 2 Continued[/b]: Seriously what the fuck. There were so many other cool ideas they could have used for the demoman. Remember back in the first trailer the demoman used dynamite packs? They could have given him some really cool creative weapons for stickybomb replacements, but instead all we get is the Scottish Resistance (which to me seems really dull and uninspired). It saddens me that Valve went and came up with 2 really gimmicky items for one of the most interesting classes in TF2. There was so much potential here.
Okay i haven't really reread what i put there. I'm sure i could split it up into better points but you get the jist of it.
[b]TL;DR[/b]
The sword/shield is a cool combo but it just doesn't fit the whole "mix and match" unlock scheme Valve has been doing for every other class. They've made it so you basically have to use the shield in conjunction with the sword or it's just not as useful. It makes even less sense to see a class made for defending areas/clearing sentry nests running around with a fucking shield/sword swinging wildly at whatever comes near it. There was so much potential for the demoman and they went and gave him a gimmicky melee weapon combo.
I agree entirely, the dynamite would have very much been a preferred unlock for me.
You have too many buttons under your avatar.
combos.
Should post this on steampowered, but yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly, the combo is dumb as hell and nothing can be done, the only place you can use your sword without the shield is when you're "Guarding" areas thats best done with the sticky launcher in 2fort.
The sco res is what the stickylauncher should have been in the first place
I like the Scottish Resistance because then I can more fully place out traps AND defend the point away from the point. I was always a better hand with the nade launcher anyways.
[QUOTE=raccoon2112;19049173]The sco res is what the stickylauncher should have been in the first place[/QUOTE]
What turns me off about it is that i have to look at the shit i want to explode. What if i'm in an area where i can't get a good line of siight with my bombs?
I'll stick with the original stickies because they are more powerful offensively (better priming rate), and they detonate remotely no matter where you're looking.
The major issue I have with the update is that it adds nothing useful or interesting to the Demoman
The shield and sword are entirely gimmicky, fun for a bit but useless against a competent player. They don't fit the Demoman whatsoever, as they are neither good for area-denial or taking down enemy defenses. Neither weapons are even remotely close to helping against his hard counters like Scout, what's the point?
The Scottish Resistance is uninspired and unnecessary. While the Direct Hit is just a rebalanced rocket-launcher, it adds depth that rewards players to get better, the Sco Res is just the regular sticky launcher with a pointless liability (having to "see" the stickies before blowing them up) and promotes boring camping
Valve had so much to work with in terms of cool unlocks and explosive weaponry, instead they give us this garbage?
Oh god Rambo, your avatar.
[QUOTE=Helelos;19049297]The major issue I have with the update is that it adds nothing useful or interesting to the Demoman
The shield and sword are entirely gimmicky, fun for a bit but useless against a competent player. They don't fit the Demoman whatsoever, as they are neither good for area-denial or taking down enemy defenses. Neither weapons are even remotely close to helping against his hard counters like Scout, what's the point?
The Scottish Resistance is uninspired and unnecessary. While the Direct Hit is just a rebalanced rocket-launcher, it adds depth that rewards players to get better, the Sco Res is just the regular sticky launcher with a pointless liability (having to "see" the stickies before blowing them up) and promotes boring camping
Valve had so much to work with in terms of cool unlocks and explosive weaponry, instead they give us this garbage?[/QUOTE]
What confuses me is that more people aren't completely dumbfounded by this update. People who religiously play as demoman should be completely pissed off that valve has gone and given them gimmicky melee weapons instead of cool alternative explosive weapons.
The Targe has pretty much no value as far as defence/offence goes. It's not a unique weapon (in theory, if valve wanted to, they could have given a similar weapon to the scout/soldier/pyro with no difficulty at all).
The demoman is a unique class that deserves more unique weapons than this.
[QUOTE=Rambo_9;19049372]What confuses me is that more people aren't completely dumbfounded by this update. People who religiously play as demoman should be completely pissed off that valve has gone and given them gimmicky melee weapons instead of cool alternative explosive weapons.
The Targe has pretty much no value as far as defence/offence goes. It's not a unique weapon (in theory, if valve wanted to, they could have given a similar weapon to the scout/soldier/pyro with no difficulty at all).
The demoman is a unique class that deserves more unique weapons than this.[/QUOTE]
Right, did they even think of how the unlocks would work in competitive play for the Demo? These things aren't even good in pubs for fucks sake
It's a goddamn joke to Demo players
but the sword and targe are fun to use
Actually now that i think about it, the Scottish resistance sucks, as mentioned above.
They should of given the Demoman some sort of buff weapon like the buff banner. e,g drink whisky, run 20% faster and deal 30% more damage for 10 seconds, then start losing 10 hp per second for 3 seconds, cannot be used if whisky bottle is already broken, and decreased melee damage.
Hopefully the whole Demoman Targe/Eyelander deal will calm down once this update's come to pass. I, too, am fairly disappointed with Valve on their Demoman weapon choice for the update. I am not, however, dissatisfied with the Soldier's unlocks; they're all unique, helpful, and viable alternatives to the original weapons.
The Scottish Resistance is useless.
[QUOTE=KmScMT;19049529]but the sword and targe are fun to use[/QUOTE]
i'm not going to say they arent, because i actually had fun going on a killing spree in a pub.
But once the dist settles and people stop stacking soldier/demo, i can guarantee the targe will be a less useful weapon.
[QUOTE=Neckbeard;19049540]The Scottish Resistance is useless.[/QUOTE]
To most players, yes. It's only helpful when you're holding off a choke point with multiple entrances. Honestly, it isn't [b]that[/b] bad; it's just tailored for a different use.
I don't know why you are complaining.
I, for one love the sword despite the fact I loved playing demoman years ago.
You can just use the Sco Res (but it's fucking useless), the nade launcher and the sword.
And then, Valve did give him the melee set because demoman was totally harmless in close combat.
[QUOTE=Neckbeard;19049540]The Scottish Resistance is useless.[/QUOTE]
Generally speaking, in comparison to its counterpart, it's a piece of shit.
It has no offensive value due to its priming rate, and it cannot remotely detonate bombs without being near them.
It is useful for demoman who strictly play defense, but honestly, what is the fun in that?
[QUOTE=cdBiohazard;19049553]I don't know why you are complaining.
I, for one love the sword despite the fact I loved was playing demoman years ago.
You can just use the Sco Res (but it's fucking useless), the nade launcher and the sword.
And then, Valve did give him the melee set because demoman was totally harmless in close combat.[/QUOTE]
He still is totally harmless in close combat, no actually he's easier to kill
The Sco-Res stickies look like Nerf toys.
[QUOTE=Helelos;19049585]He still is totally harmless in close combat, no actually he's easier to kill[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say absolutely harmless - his sword does have a longer reach which makes it especially useful in melee fights.
What makes him useless is the fact that he has to run up to you then attack, whereas most classes can start attacking him at a distance before he reaches them, then switch to their melee.
Problem 3: all my items are gone
[QUOTE=Rambo_9;19049633]I wouldn't say absolutely harmless - his sword does have a longer reach which makes it especially useful in melee fights.
What makes him useless is the fact that he has to run up to you then attack, whereas most classes can start attacking him at a distance before he reaches them, then switch to their melee.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention it's easy to just side-step a charge and kill him with bullets. Scouts can easily take him down without his stickies to help him cut off flanking
[quote]Problem 1: The Targe and the Sword are 'linked'. If you use the Targe without the sword you don't get a damage boost to your melee. Why is this bad? It goes against the whole principle behind unlocks. With ANY other class you can mix and match unlocks. No unlocks are dependent on others, EXCEPT for the Targe and the Sword. Right off the bat this limits your loadout abilities. You could choose to equip the Targe and not the sword, but then you lose the perks of having increased melee damage with charges (which can only be a bad thing since you rely on melee as your way to deal damage with the Targe). If you take the sword without the Targe, you still have the ability to regain health. But it's much less likely to happen since the Targe is what lets you get up close and actually deal damage with the sword. Without it, you'll rarely be able to pull off a melee kill without being spotted at a distance and blown to bits before you can reach the enemy. It's just common sense - either you use the Targe/Sword combo, or you don't. This really shouldn't be the case. Imagine if Valve made other class unlocks depend on eachother. What if Natascha only slowed down enemies if you had the Sandvich as your secondary weapon? It's basically the same scenario.
[/quote]
Wrong. You can use chargin targe with your scrumpeh bottle. It's sure harder to hit someone because of the shorter range of bottle, but the hit is devastating.
[QUOTE=Str4t0s;19049674]Wrong. You can use chargin targe with your scrumpeh bottle. It's sure harder to hit someone because of the shorter range of bottle, but the hit is devastating.[/QUOTE]
Speaking of which, why can't grenades get crits during a charge? The gun lights up and everything
[QUOTE=Str4t0s;19049674]Wrong. You can use chargin targe with your scrumpeh bottle. It's sure harder to hit someone because of the shorter range of bottle, but the hit is devastating.[/QUOTE]
I got like 9 kills like that in a row but I still find the chargin targe pretty useless
[quote]Problem 2 Continued: Seriously what the fuck. There were so many other cool ideas they could have used for the demoman. Remember back in the first trailer the demoman used dynamite packs? They could have given him some really cool creative weapons for stickybomb replacements, but instead all we get is the Scottish Resistance (which to me seems really dull and uninspired). It saddens me that Valve went and came up with 2 really gimmicky items for one of the most interesting classes in TF2. There was so much potential here.[/quote]
Remember when people wanted the Nailgun when the Scout update was announced?
If they didn't want it in the first place they ain't releasing an unlock like that.
[QUOTE=Helelos;19049698]Speaking of which, why can't grenades get crits during a charge? The gun lights up and everything[/QUOTE]
It does. You have to fire right before the charge ends
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