Is it just me, Or is Medic kinda... broken? - Games

I'm frustrated at the way Medic is now in TF2. He's really just becoming weak and useless. And I hate this. I love him. Anyway, I just kinda slopped some words together, it's not especially coherent. Just ventin' more or less. Read on and whatnot if you want. First, let's look at how many classes can heal themselves, Free of medic. Dispensers and Payload carts will actively heal friendly players and Spies disguised as friendly players who stand near them. Heavies may also consume Sandviches or Dalokohs Bars to regain health, and can drop Sandviches for other players to use. The Blutsauger will heal the Medic 3 hitpoints for every shot fired that hits an enemy. Demomen who decapitate an enemy using the Eyelander recover 15HP along with the increase to their max health. Scouts may use Mad Milk to enable themselves and their allies to recover health by damaging opponents covered in it. Soldiers can heal 15 health per opponent hit with the Black Box. Pyros reflecting a rocket fired by the Black Box also regain 15 health if the rocket damages an opponent. Pyros who obtain a kill with the Powerjack gain up to 75 health, which may overheal the Pyro. Players killed by Scouts who have the Candy Cane equipped will drop a small medkit. Looking at that, this is waaay too much. Having too many classes have abilities to heal themselves, leaves us not much room for Medic. Frankly, eating a quick sandwhich is more effiecent that having a Medic. Few good hits from the Black Box, and you're healed right up, as quick as a Medic could do it. And most of these have a huge Advantage over medic : Medic has a short life. Medic is killed incredibly easily, his weapons are puny and can't help himself. But this is good. We don't want him in the frontlines, but He needs a way to protect himself better. A few syringes isn't going to stop the charging Pyro who's roasting him like chestnuts. I was playing in pubs today, and I noticed : No one really plays Medic. 1 per team, maybe. If we're lucky. And usually, they're just Medics who stick the heavy and don't actually do anything for the team at all. We need to make Medic more appealing, give him regular weapon updates, like, Honestly, does Soldier and Demoman need a new melee weapon every other week? The Medieval Medic was a good idea, it got more people into medic, but the set... Is mixed. The Crossbow is gimmicky, and the Amputator is a good idea, but unfortunately way too OP for it's own good, and I main medic. The Crusader's Crossbow is just silly. It's weak, the reload takes too long, and the gimmick with the healing is incredibly unreliable. It heals more at long range, which is hard to aim. If the teammates at close range, why not use the Medigun? The Amputator is strangley enough, Medics first incredibly Overpowered weapon. Looking at Melee weapons, we have the choice of Getting 25% uber on hit, Which on paper, sounds good, but how many times, really, have you killed someone as Medic, with the bonesaw, and lived long enough to get an Uber out? The average player really can't do this, or then we have the Vita-Saw, which loses Medic some health, as if this wasn't bad enough, but gives us the small uber charge convience. But with the Amputator, we can do a massive Area of effect heal quickly. Choice seems obvious. And the biggest concern with Medic, is the lack of interest. More people would rather be racking up W+M1 kills than healing people as Herr Doktor here. Sad but true. Medic doesn't have any flashy ways of killing people, so more often than not he gets ignored. I really think the next update needs to give some incentive to play Medic. A new medigun maybe, but also a few tweaks in general, like how Engineer got the way to move buildings, or Pyro's can airlbast, or Spies recovering cloak with metal. Small little changes that can completely change the way we play the class. anyway, that was my stupid little rant. Made no sense.

Pretty sure I can still find players yelling MEDIC easily. You're just looking too much into it, you should really stop playing the game for a few weeks and see how much you care then

[QUOTE=mr apple;27421994]Pretty sure I can still find players yelling MEDIC easily. You're just looking too much into it, you should really stop playing the game for a few weeks and see how much you care then[/QUOTE] That's probably the truth... I really do think to much about it. Anyway, it's just my stupid little rant. It was a floodgate to open discussion.

[url]www.tf2lobby.com[/url] Seriously he's like the most important class there, and it's both scary but awesome, everyone hunts you down, but because you're vital to the success of your team.

I disagree, while many classes can heal themselves, a medic does it better. A medic can... -Constantly overheal -Pocket people giving them constant health regen -Doesn't require a target to lifesteal from like Blutsauger, Mad Milk, Eyelander, etc. Plus you have your ubercharge which is integral to pushing in any Team Fortress 2 format. As for survivability, if you have a smart team they (should) be protecting. As for the Amputator, sure you can heal a lot of people, but you're not building any uber either, therefore, I feel like it's balanced.

I agree about the crusader's crossbow being shit

If your medics die too quickly then maybe you need to get your shit together and actually protect the medics since they are uh I dunno extremely valuable

[QUOTE=IdiotStorm;27422055]If your medics die too quickly then maybe you need to get your shit together and actually protect the medics since they are uh I dunno extremely valuable[/QUOTE] In my experiences, most heavies care too much about getting their own kills to throw down a Sandvich for the poor doctor.

It's true, nobody really plays Medic as much as they should. I find myself going Medic to help my team a lot, even though I wanted to play something else.

[QUOTE=CommanderMayhem;27422066]In my experiences, most heavies care too much about getting their own kills to throw down a Sandvich for the poor doctor.[/QUOTE] Either that or they'll start nomming their sandvich while i'm already healing them and i'm dieing.

[QUOTE=CommanderMayhem;27422066]In my experiences, most heavies care too much about getting their own kills to throw down a Sandvich for the poor doctor.[/QUOTE] how do I fix that hmm I know don't play with shit players

[QUOTE=IdiotStorm;27422088]how do I fix that hmm I know don't play with shit players[/QUOTE] Well, I signed up for TF2 lobby, let's see how that goes.

[QUOTE=IdiotStorm;27422055]If your medics die too quickly then maybe you need to get your shit together and actually protect the medics since they are uh I dunno extremely valuable[/QUOTE] I really think you missed the point of the rant; He thinks that medics should have some sort of defense for themselves, and that they shouldn't have to rely on downs heavies to protect them.

The amputator, while great, leaves you too open to every danger present in the game, you're easy to snipe, scattergun, rocket, grenade, minigun, melee, huntsman, flamethrower or what have you. It's a real alternative to the ubersaw, but it's something that won't see much use other than the odd moment due to the danger it poses. The crossbow is just a straight upgrade, the needleguns are just so useless that you wouldn't bother using them seriously anyway (well if you were running from a W+M1 pyro maybe), just in a vain attempt to try and survive against an enemy you're very very unlikely to kill. The crossbow allows you to give instant health back to a player you can't reach with your medigun provided you can land the shot, this is awesome and has so much application, you can just fire off a shot on a teammate you're approaching to get him healed much quicker, then switch to your medigun and continue from there. That suicidal heavy who is about to die fighting and you won't be able to reach him in time? Crossbow.

[QUOTE=Ian;27422146]I really think you missed the point of the rant; He thinks that medics should have some sort of defense for themselves, and that they shouldn't have to rely on downs heavies to protect them.[/QUOTE] I think the main point of the medic is that he can be a vital part of the team, ubers and shit, but he is weak so you have to use TEAMWORK to protect him yeah that's right use teamwork Oh right this is Team Fortress 2 silly me

[QUOTE=CommanderMayhem;27422121]Well, I signed up for TF2 lobby, let's see how that goes.[/QUOTE] TF2 Lobby while originally intended to be an entry point for Competitive TF2, no one actually communicates or plays seriously these days.

[QUOTE=Ian;27422146]I really think you missed the point of the rant; He thinks that medics should have some sort of defense for themselves, and that they shouldn't have to rely on downs heavies to protect them.[/QUOTE] As much as I agree that the medic should have a good defensive weapon, I don't think he should get one, he's a class designed specifically to work with others, providing them with healing and they in return providing medic with protection. I wouldn't mind seeing a medigun that dealt with the crowd that only cares about getting kills though, like a medigun that gave you health back as your heal target does damage, or gets kills, and also plays an alert sound to your heal buddy whenever you take damage so they know when to turn around and help you. [editline]15th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=TheGreatPUDDING;27422246]TF2 Lobby while originally intended to be an entry point for Competitive TF2, no one actually communicates or plays seriously these days.[/QUOTE] True, but it's still several steps up from public play.

[QUOTE=IdiotStorm;27422221]I think the main point of the medic is that he can be a vital part of the team, ubers and shit, but he is weak so you have to use TEAMWORK to protect him yeah that's right use teamwork Oh right this is Team Fortress 2 silly me[/QUOTE] Yes, because everyone knows that medics are instantly helped by super pro competitive players whenever their teammate that they were healing gets backstabbed! And EVERYONE knows that if it was a saharan spy, the medic would have NO problem taking out said spy with his blind needlespam! Oh no wait, that's no good, let's try to make a mad dash for our base. OH WAIT WE'RE IN THE ENEMY BASE. *Medic dies*

Medic is by far the most difficult class in the game, that's why. Don't rate funny, I'm serious.

[QUOTE=Ian;27422308]Yes, because everyone knows that medics are instantly helped by super pro competitive players whenever their teammate that they were healing gets backstabbed! And EVERYONE knows that if it was a saharan spy, the medic would have NO problem taking out said spy with his blind needlespam! Oh no wait, that's no good, let's try to make a mad dash for our base. OH WAIT WE'RE IN THE ENEMY BASE. *Medic dies*[/QUOTE] The medic should be open when his team are dead though, he's a pure teamwork class, adding in something that would detract from that would be like making the demoman a melee class, which has already been done, and it sucks. [editline]15th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=MBGrimm;27422381]Medic is by far the most difficult class in the game, that's why. Don't rate funny, I'm serious.[/QUOTE] He isn't the most difficult class in the game, he's one of the easiest to pick up and the easiest to reach the skill ceiling of. I'm not going to say his job is a cakewalk though, it can be, but at times it's also very stressful and requires near perfect micromanagement to make up for the shortcomings of your team. But he's not the most difficult class in the game. To do his job well doesn't require that much effort, his job isn't killing, his job is helping his team kill and most of the time that doesn't require much concentration. If his job was killing, yes then he would be the most difficult class in the game, but it's not.

[QUOTE=CommanderMayhem;27422066]In my experiences, most heavies care too much about getting their own kills to throw down a Sandvich for the poor doctor.[/QUOTE] I am an exception.

[QUOTE=GastricTank;27422588]I am an exception.[/QUOTE] Yeah! I remember playing with you one time, you're so nice to us doctors.

I heal my medic as well if i am a Heavy or a Scout or a Sniper or a Pyro. If they're in flames? Extinguish. If they're hurt? Sandvich :3: And woo, he will last longer, i will last longer, the enemies won't. We both benefit.

[QUOTE=Doomish;27422082]It's true, nobody really plays Medic as much as they should. I find myself going Medic to help my team a lot, even though I wanted to play something else.[/QUOTE] Aye, i do too. I don't mind playing medic much, but, honestly, when you're entire team is dying contently and everyone shouting for medic, It just feels like your force to at this point.

I also notice that the polycount packs buffs or pros were based on maintaining the health of the used Black Box. Mad Milk. Darwin's Danger Shield. Battalions. Powerjack

Anything that valve pumps out for the soldier is OP'd

I always saw those small little things as helpers in case no one on the team wants to go Medic (not uncommon). I find that Medics can still help out, but nowadays they aren't a necessity to a winning team with these extra things.

The time it takes to reload the crossbow is much longer than it needs to be. And the amputator is a STRAIGHT BUFF from the bonesaw. Amputator should do less damage and slow down the wearer to about demoman while active. [editline]15th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Sabrina;27423306]I heal my medic as well if i am a Heavy or a Scout or a Sniper or a Pyro. If they're in flames? Extinguish. If they're hurt? Sandvich :3: And woo, he will last longer, i will last longer, the enemies won't. We both benefit.[/QUOTE] I love it when the heavy I'm healing gives me a nice sandvich. Gives me a hard-on.

[QUOTE]Heavies may also consume Sandviches or Dalokohs Bars to regain health, and can drop Sandviches for other players to use. The Blutsauger will heal the Medic 3 hitpoints for every shot fired that hits an enemy. Demomen who decapitate an enemy using the Eyelander recover 15HP along with the increase to their max health. Scouts may use Mad Milk to enable themselves and their allies to recover health by damaging opponents covered in it. Soldiers can heal 15 health per opponent hit with the Black Box. Pyros reflecting a rocket fired by the Black Box also regain 15 health if the rocket damages an opponent. Pyros who obtain a kill with the Powerjack gain up to 75 health, which may overheal the Pyro. Players killed by Scouts who have the Candy Cane equipped will drop a small medkit. Looking at that, this is waaay too much. Having too many classes have abilities to heal themselves, leaves us not much room for Medic. Frankly, eating a quick sandwhich is more effiecent that having a Medic. Few good hits from the Black Box, and you're healed right up, as quick as a Medic could do it.[/QUOTE] Most of your weapon examples have disadvantages, too, don't forget those. Blutsauger is awful if you're not shooting often, Eyelander disadvantages Demomen right out of spawn, Black Box makes you weaker in direct combat, Candy Cane makes dealing with explosive classes much much harder. I'll grant you Sandviches, Mad Milk and Powerjack are very powerful, though. [QUOTE]And most of these have a huge Advantage over medic : Medic has a short life. Medic is killed incredibly easily, his weapons are puny and can't help himself. But this is good. We don't want him in the frontlines, but He needs a way to protect himself better. A few syringes isn't going to stop the charging Pyro who's roasting him like chestnuts. [/QUOTE] Syringes work wonders against lighter classes, especially Scouts who must close the distance to deal damage. You're somewhat correct, Medics are not a direct combat class, but a good Syringe Gunner can shut down lighter classes at short-medium ranges. [QUOTE]I was playing in pubs today, and I noticed : No one really plays Medic. 1 per team, maybe. If we're lucky. And usually, they're just Medics who stick the heavy and don't actually do anything for the team at all. We need to make Medic more appealing, give him regular weapon updates, like, Honestly, does Soldier and Demoman need a new melee weapon every other week? The Medieval Medic was a good idea, it got more people into medic, but the set... Is mixed. The Crossbow is gimmicky, and the Amputator is a good idea, but unfortunately way too OP for it's own good, and I main medic. The Crusader's Crossbow is just silly. It's weak, the reload takes too long, and the gimmick with the healing is incredibly unreliable. It heals more at long range, which is hard to aim. If the teammates at close range, why not use the Medigun?[/QUOTE] Yes to your first point. Yes to your second point. Although the Soldier only has two melee unlocks, remember that... it's Pyro and Heavy and Demoman with the ridiculous melees. The Crossbow is indeed gimmicky, and is a bit better in larger groups. The Amputator is only OP if you can pull off several healings without getting killed, and even then, it's essentially a dispenser. Not ridiculous (though the balance nerd within me wants the Bonesaw relevant again). [QUOTE]The Amputator is strangley enough, Medics first incredibly Overpowered weapon. Looking at Melee weapons, we have the choice of Getting 25% uber on hit, Which on paper, sounds good, but how many times, really, have you killed someone as Medic, with the bonesaw, and lived long enough to get an Uber out? The average player really can't do this, or then we have the Vita-Saw, which loses Medic some health, as if this wasn't bad enough, but gives us the small uber charge convience. But with the Amputator, we can do a massive Area of effect heal quickly. Choice seems obvious.[/QUOTE] The Ubersaw is good whenever you get away with it, and ordinary the rest of the time. It's fairly standard for competitive games simply because of that fact. Vita-Saw is a good choice for crowded pubs if you're getting screwed over repeatedly. Amputator is good on specific maps with chokepoints / blindspots. The latter two are situational, like unlocks should be... they're not inherently overpowered (discounting the Bonesaw again). [QUOTE]And the biggest concern with Medic, is the lack of interest. More people would rather be racking up W+M1 kills than healing people as Herr Doktor here. Sad but true. Medic doesn't have any flashy ways of killing people, so more often than not he gets ignored. I really think the next update needs to give some incentive to play Medic. A new medigun maybe, but also a few tweaks in general, like how Engineer got the way to move buildings, or Pyro's can airlbast, or Spies recovering cloak with metal. Small little changes that can completely change the way we play the class.[/QUOTE] Any new medigun would be absolutely sexy, but balance issues at this point make things difficult (though this hasn't always stopped Valve). You've got some good points, and you're got some blind rage. But it's all good!

The reason why people still call for medic is to increase their survivability All the items that give you health (except mediguns obviously) can't overheal you or give you ubers.