Anybody notice that the sandman is near worthless now? - Games

It used to be that the sandman was "The most annoying damn weapon in Team Fortress." Everybody (Except the select few who knew how to dodge :v: ) hated the thing, complaining that it was "Unfair" and "The scout shouldn't be able to stop an uber." Well, VALVe nerfed the sandman a bit, altering the sandman so that it didn't give enhanced damage on stunned players. It didn't help, and people continued to complain that the weapon should be removed, that it was still "Broken." VALVe nerfed it again, causing players to take even LESS damage when stunned. NOPE, NOT ENOUGH. I STILL DON'T HAVE 20 KILL KILLING SPREES. VALVe nerfs it EVEN harder, removing the Sandman's arguably most useful trait, the ability to stun ubercharged players. By now, even though it is "Fair" nobody uses the sandman, because THEY NERFED IT TO HELL. Some players are still unhappy, somehow. VALVe deals the mercy kill to the Sandman, and replaces the easily-compensatable Double Jump ability with a subtraction to your health, leaving you at 95. They also shift around the control scheme a bit, changing it around from the normal control scheme, (Which everyone had probably gotten used to by now regardless of complaining when the weapon first came out.) To the arguably easier to grasp control scheme of M1 for Attack and M2 for Stun-ball. Thought I was done? Hah, no. Recently, though I'm not sure when, VALVe changed the "Stunned" effect from standing still to the failure animations. Now, in the unlikely occasion that you get stunned, you can either zig-zag away until the stunning is over or retreat to some cover, rendering the stun almost completely useless other than the few seconds of one person on the other team being out-of-commission. Too long? People ranted that the Sandman was too powerful, now it's the weakest weapon in the game. At least Bonk! Energy Drink is good for escapes, and getting past sentries.

I agree.... Valve completely fails sometimes.

Pfft, imo that's what you idiots get for complaining so much

Now, may the same thing happen to the Eyelander.

Good. Being stunned is an entirely unfun mechanic. It's annoying, it's jarring, and it's all-around shitty. There is literally no reason for stunning someone other than being a dick. And before you get into "HURF DURF TEAM ASSISTANCE ARGLEBARGLE," let me just say this: stunning someone is harder and less effective than just rolling Sniper and headshotting them, and in most situations you could have just as easily killed them with your Scattergun or FaN. There are some situations where stunning is useful, particularly for targeting players in the middle of a crowd or covered by a Sentry, but in those situations it's usually ultimately useless because they're surrounded by teammates. Sometimes their team will abandon them, but that's just frustrating for the other guy rather than actually useful.

Sandman is complete shit, it's not even a side grade.

[QUOTE=NotPigeon;19068810]Good. Being stunned is an entirely unfun mechanic. It's annoying, it's jarring, and it's all-around shitty. There is literally no reason for stunning other than being a dick.[/QUOTE] Not really. It fits right in to the comedic style of the game. If I get stunned, OH WELL. Wasn't fast enough that time. Here's hoping my teammates step in in time to save my ass.

I did that short range stun and a heavy ran into a train.

They missed the FaN and accidentally nerfed the Sandman

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;19068827]Not really. It fits right in to the comedic style of the game. If I get stunned, OH WELL. Wasn't fast enough that time. Here's hoping my teammates step in in time to save my ass.[/QUOTE] It fits the style, but it's not fun. There's a very distinct difference.

In that case, is being on fire "Fun?" should we remove the ability to ignite people?

Sorry, I tried to argue in favor of stunning but couldn't think of a valid argument.

[QUOTE=RJ102;19068922]They missed the FaN and accidentally nerfed the Sandman[/QUOTE] FaN is a piece of shit. Only assholes and scrubs use it.

Was so easy to dodge, if you got hit by it you deserved to be stunned. Now that it does next to nothing they should atleast make recharge rate faster or even better make health go up every person you stun. Cap it at 140 or something, each hit with ball adds 15 3 times and up to 140hp. NOTE: Not a knockout stun though, because you very rarely hit people at maximum range most maps are way too confined. Though on that, say you get a stun from max range get boosted to 140hp.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;19068978]In that case, is being on fire "Fun?" should we remove the ability to ignite people?[/QUOTE] Being on fire doesn't remove my ability to fight back. That's what makes stunning unfun.

Can't fight crits. If you get hit by a crit Rocket, you're dead. Same time to dodge as a Ball, too.

[QUOTE=Bravo;19069030]Was so easy to dodge, if you got hit by it you deserved to be stunned. Now that it does next to nothing they should atleast make recharge rate faster or even better make health go up every person you stun. Cap it at 140 or something, each hit with ball adds 15 3 times and up to 140hp. NOTE: Not a knockout stun though, because you very rarely hit people at maximum range most maps are way too confined. Though on that, say you get a stun from max range get boosted to 140hp.[/QUOTE] Yes because a ball is going to magically transfer health to you when it comes in contact with enemies. :downs:

Like the Eyelander. But suppose that alright because it's written in the manual that it takes their soul, magically.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;19069110]Can't fight crits. If you get hit by a crit Rocket, you're dead. Same time to dodge as a Ball, too.[/QUOTE] But then you're dead, and being dead is very different from being stunned. Suddenly dying can be a bit jarring, but it's not nearly as much of a problem as with the Sandman because: 1. The camera doesn't move much until it zooms in and gives you a picture of your killer (unless you play a custom animation and it snaps to the thirdperson perspective first). 2. You can spectate your teammates, thus keeping you involved in the game. 3. When you respawn, you're not immediately dumped back into battle (unless it's a shittily made custom map). You start with full health and ammo, you're in a safe room with no enemies, and there's no Scout waiting for your stun to wear off so he can pop off some full-damage shots and kill you before you can do anything about it. Granted, 1 and 2 aren't that big of a deal with the Sandman, but 3 is pretty significant.

I wish scout had gotten some love with his unlocks. Now that sandman is worthless can we get a bat that when it hits an airborne enemy spikes them into the ground causing them to take fall damage. regardless of height, making someone crater from a jump would be awesome. Think gravelpit C point, rocket jumping soldier, denied, now has too low of health to rocket jump again. Or instead of the sandman give him, *gasp* a concussion grenade that does 0 dmg but throws off the aim of the user and enemies hit by it. It can also be used to jump great distances. I miss concs.

OH WAIT Sandman was always worthless..

[QUOTE=!xHDMicrobe;19069126]Yes because a ball is going to magically transfer health to you when it comes in contact with enemies. :downs:[/QUOTE] Yes because holding a wooden bat as opposed to a metal bat is going to magically take away max health. :downs: OH WAIT :v:

[QUOTE=Shugo;19069405]Yes because holding a wooden bat as opposed to a metal bat is going to magically take away max health. :downs: OH WAIT :v:[/QUOTE] The Sandman is possessed by the actual Sandman? Sandman -> Sleep -> Rest -> Health?

[QUOTE=NotPigeon;19068810]Good. Being stunned is an entirely unfun mechanic. It's annoying, it's jarring, and it's all-around shitty. There is literally no reason for stunning someone other than being a dick.[/QUOTE] Being killed is jarring and annoying. It takes even longer to respawn, and it also takes time to get back into the fight, with the possibility of being killed yet again looming. Look on the brightside: the enemy team could be full of sandmanning scouts. But it's not most of the time, now, is it? It's full of people that will kill you, interrupting your gameplay in a way far more time consuming and "jarring" than being hit on the head with a stunball.

[QUOTE=Jenkem;19069598]Being killed is jarring and annoying. It takes even longer to respawn, and it also takes time to get back into the fight, with the possibility of being killed yet again looming. Look on the brightside: the enemy team could be full of sandmanning scouts. But it's not most of the time, now, is it? It's full of people that will kill you, interrupting your gameplay in a way far more time consuming and "jarring" than being hit on the head with a stunball.[/QUOTE] Killing you doesn't leave you helpless in the middle of a fight, it leaves you dead- but 20 seconds or less later you respawn in complete safety and with full health. Stunning leaves you up the creek without a raft. Being dead means you can't fight back, but that's okay because there's nothing to fight. Being stunned leaves you defenseless and with people still trying to kill you. That's not fun. Dying isn't fun, either, but it's necessary to keep the game flowing at the right pace. Stunning isn't needed for good gameplay. Dying is.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;19068736]...rendering the stun almost completely useless other than the few seconds of one person on the other team being out-of-commission...[/QUOTE] Isn't that almost the exact same effect of what the stun did before? The only difference is that now they can slowly run away.

It was always worthless!

[QUOTE=Larikang;19069687]Isn't that almost the exact same effect of what the stun did before? The only difference is that now they can slowly run away.[/QUOTE] They want their [del]free[/del] rightfully earned kill as well. A stun last shorter then a respawn, except on instaspawn spamfests.

[QUOTE=Larikang;19069687]Isn't that almost the exact same effect of what the stun did before? The only difference is that now they can slowly run away.[/QUOTE] Much easier to get to teammates and save oneself. Really, the concept of Sandman is great. It is the constantly whining community that should be nerfed (and/or deleted).

[QUOTE=gufu;19069907] Really, the concept of Sandman is great. It is the constantly whining community that should be nerfed (and/or deleted).[/QUOTE] The concept of the Sandman is rubbish.