koth_campground - Released

[Molot0v]

[img]http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/6606/campgroundbanner.png[/img]
(tried my best on the banner)

Been working on this map for about a month. It's a King of the Hill map set in a forest campground. The map's pretty small but there's a lot to it. I started out just wanting to make a map with a ton of trees so spies and pyros can ambush people. But there's a lot more than just trees, there's towers for snipers, a river with bridges, a cave giving the BLU team an alternate exit out of spawn, and a control point campsite in the middle.

Here's some screenshots [b](BIG 1680x1050)[/b]
[img]http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3112/kothcampground0023.png[/img]
[img]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8097/kothcampground0024.png[/img]
[img]http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/820/kothcampground0025.png[/img]
[img]http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3791/kothcampground0026.png[/img]
[img]http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/320/kothcampground0027.png[/img]
[img]http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4892/kothcampground0028.png[/img]
[img]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1331/kothcampground0029.png[/img]
[img]http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/2623/kothcampground0030.png[/img]
[img]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7467/kothcampground0031.png[/img]
[img]http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8127/kothcampground0032.png[/img]
[img]http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5369/kothcampground0033.png[/img]

[b]Download here:[/b] [url]http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=4600[/url]

I'd like you guys to post what you think about it in this thread and tell me if there's any problems/things I can change so I can improve on the map. I don't have a server I can test it on, but it'd be cool if someone could set one up so we can all play it together. :smile:

[Jessecar96]

Server running it

24.189.68.255:27015

looks nice

[Molot0v]

[QUOTE=Jessecar96;28867876]Server running it

24.189.68.255:27015

looks nice[/QUOTE]

Awesome, joining.

[nox]

Nice job man. There needs to be more woodland maps like this, the style fits so well.

[xpod1]

this reminds me of Heavy Camp

goddamn do i miss the Heavy Camp

[snack]

Nice job, OP. I like this map a lot.

[Sammun]

[quote]I started out just wanting to make a map with a ton of trees so spies and pyros can ambush people. But there's a lot more than just trees, there's towers for snipers,[/quote]

I love you.

[Molot0v]

Well the server keeps crashing after a couple minutes of playing. Don't know if that's my fault or the server's, no idea what would be causing it.

[Jessecar96]

well, my server dosen't normally do that, so...

[Humblerbee]

[QUOTE=Jessecar96;28867876]Server running it

24.189.68.255:27015

looks nice[/QUOTE]

Well, time for me to join and [i]camp[/i] the point! :downsrim:

(Oh god I'm sorry)

[Doneeh]

Camper vans, where the Sniper outshines the rest of the team.

[Eeshton]

Please tell me you didn't include that horribly unoptimized piece of crap sniper van.

[Bat-shit]

I like the idea of mirror map type deal, with each sides variances of course.. this map is pretty tight

[HyperTails]

Looks lovely, I like the theme of the map.

[Purple Magpie]

My game crashed before I could get bots on it to test gameplay, - probably not your map but I'd still double-check to make sure everything's sealed - but I have some aesthetic gripes.

Firstly, I don't understand why these two structures exist in the setting. The second one could possibly be a burned out building or something, but the first one I truly have no idea what its purpose would be. Not to mention it would actually fall in on itself, right about where my crosshair is should be some supports of some kind.

[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/2011-03-29_00002.jpg[/img]
[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/2011-03-29_00003.jpg[/img]

Secondly, and this is minor as not many people will notice it, is that when camping with a tent like that, you want to be at the top of the hill. Otherwise, if it rains, the water will wash under the sides of the tent and into your bedding. Also why is there a dead tree there?

[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/2011-03-29_00004.jpg[/img]

Lastly, due in part to my game crashing before I could test anything as a Demo, some supports are [i]probably[/i] required on this bridge. I'm by no means a structural engineer, and I was actually looking for stuff like this at that point, but given the shape of the bridge I'm pretty sure it'd need supports near the top of the slanted part of the bridge. But again, I'm not a structural engineer, so I'm really not entirely sure.

[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/2011-03-29_00005.jpg[/img]

[Ceiling Man]

Reminds me of that one Killing Floor map.

But that's the problem, it's too open.

[Molot0v]

[QUOTE=Lijitsu;28872222]Firstly, I don't understand why these two structures exist in the setting. The second one could possibly be a burned out building or something, but the first one I truly have no idea what its purpose would be. Not to mention it would actually fall in on itself, right about where my crosshair is should be some supports of some kind.

[img_thumb]http://filesmelt.com/dl/2011-03-29_00002.jpg[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://filesmelt.com/dl/2011-03-29_00003.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]

Yeah, I guess I could add some supports. I was thinking more of gameplay than realism when making those. The idea though was that the wooden structures on the Blu side are supposed to be rickety and poorly made while the Red side's building are perfect and straight. Since the Red team's more known building with wood and Blu mostly uses concrete and metal. :v:

[Blackbird88]

This looks lovely. I like the idea of map in forest :buddy:

[MaxOfS2D]

Just my two cents: trees seem to all be perfectly straight, and that's bad

[Gekkosan]

It's not that good, time well spent on it, but it don't seem to have much of a concept for a working king of the hill struggle.

sorry

[MechaBowser]

I love it. I like open area maps like this that still contain reasonable cover (to avoid Sniper spam).

Too bad about the crashing, I really hope that gets solved.

[Molot0v]

[QUOTE=MechaBowser;28908237]I love it. I like open area maps like this that still contain reasonable cover (to avoid Sniper spam).

Too bad about the crashing, I really hope that gets solved.[/QUOTE]

I think I know what the problem is. It should be fixed soon.

[FunkyDisko77]

The ceiling is far too low in what I presume is the camp office, and the most of the architecture is blocky. Try working with angles more, or at least making things less than just some blocks stuck together.

Eg use props as bridge supports, etc.

[editline]31st March 2011[/editline]

Other than that it's an excellent map

[editline]31st March 2011[/editline]

Also consider brightening the spawnrooms.

[Eeshton]

Lots of balance problems

This bridge is really oddly shaped and there is no support under it as a previous user has stated.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24325816/map1.png[/media]

This is a very large sniper area, the reds have a really good view of the Blu's path to the point while Red's are covered by trees.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24325816/map2.png[/media]

You have to crouch jump to get these and when you are about to die, you shouldn't really need to do that.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24325816/map3.png[/media]

[DrBones]

There needs to be more forest-y maps. A map that's basically one big forest with loads of hiding spots and cover would be sexy.

[t h e]

[QUOTE=Eeshton;28956673]Lots of balance problems

This bridge is really oddly shaped and there is no support under it as a previous user has stated.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24325816/map1.png[/media]

This is a very large sniper area, the reds have a really good view of the Blu's path to the point while Red's are covered by trees.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24325816/map2.png[/media]

You have to crouch jump to get these and when you are about to die, you shouldn't really need to do that.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24325816/map3.png[/media][/QUOTE]

That hand skin...

[Ragnar Homsar]

Ran through the map and I've got some feedback. TF2 didn't crash for me, but I was only able to test this on a listen server and couldn't test it on a dedicated server.

GENERAL:
- Looking at a decompiled VMF, your map is basically one gigantic skybox brush with some bits of actual map inside it. You have roughly 1400 Hammer units of unused space, which can be hell on older/lower-powered computers.
- Two things about the rain: 1) you're using func_precipitation, which is a no-no in TF2 maps because it really doesn't fit TF2 (why not just use the Sawmill rain particles) and 2) it's perfectly sunny and clear yet it's raining.
- Map's really open and yet somehow, at the same time, cramped. The trees make it pretty difficult as a Scout to jump anywhere without hitting the trunks, and I'm fairly sure a good Soldier or Demoman could rocket/stickyjump to the top of the trees and spam rockets/pipes/stickies.
- TREE SPAM EVERYWHERE. Use the tree-cluster props to reduce FPS drops.
- Everything is rendered from everywhere. Looking through the showvisleaves command, VVIS is thinking your entire map is one gigantic visleaf, barring of course the bridge because it isn't func_detailed.
- Filename: If you ever decide to update the map and you keep the koth_campground filename, players who already had the map before but haven't updated will get "Your version of koth_campground.bsp differs from the server's" when they connect to a server with the updated version.
- Asymmetrical KOTH layout. This could work if there was severe tweaking, but I wasn't able to test it so just be careful of this.

PICTURES (media'd for size) :
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8974580/campground/hl2%202011-04-03%2020-59-34-54.png[/media]
These displacements are a huge pain in the ass to get over since they're too steep to walk on. If I was trying to retreat from an advancing enemy and I hit this displacement, I'd pretty much be trapped. Make it less steep.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8974580/campground/hl2%202011-04-03%2020-59-45-09.png[/media] Why does BLU have an extra spawn exit but RED doesn't?
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8974580/campground/hl2%202011-04-03%2021-03-40-73.png[/media] Not sure why, but this log cluster looks like a prop from HL2.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8974580/campground/hl2%202011-04-03%2021-04-28-19.png[/media] Why are you using Alpine trees everywhere and yet you use a Harvest tree (ugggghhhhh) here?
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8974580/campground/hl2%202011-04-03%2020-56-31-76.png[/media] Texture seam here.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8974580/campground/hl2%202011-04-03%2020-56-49-78.png[/media] HL2 water. Use TF2 water (look for "water" in the Hammer Texture Browser with the filter "tf").
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8974580/campground/hl2%202011-04-03%2020-58-08-33.png[/media] This opening near the RED perch's 2nd stairs just looks really weird and I'm pretty sure a pipebomb could pass through it.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8974580/campground/hl2%202011-04-03%2020-58-16-41.png[/media] There's sightlines everywhere, but this one to the BLU spawn from the RED perch is really, really egregious. Block it somehow.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8974580/campground/hl2%202011-04-03%2020-58-31-72.png[/media] This whole shack seems like it'd be a really easy place to just spam rockets/stickies in.
[media]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8974580/campground/hl2%202011-04-03%2020-59-17-79.png[/media] You're using props_movies/camper/camper.mdl. This version of the van has missing textures. Use props_movies/campervan/campervan.mdl.

[Naabitech]

Thought it was Campgrounds from Quake... :(

[Molot0v]

Updated a few things.

fixed crash issue
added supports to blu tower
added supports to blu bridge
raised ceiling in red office
made red sniper tower look war-torn/destroyed, added props

[img]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4852/kothcampground0035.png[/img]
[img]http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1048/kothcampground0034.png[/img]
[img]http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7506/kothcampground0036.png[/img]

Download at the same place: [url]http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=4600[/url]

[editline]4th April 2011[/editline]

[QUOTE=Ragnar Homsar;28980121]Stuff[/QUOTE]

Thanks, very useful post. I'll work on those things for the next update.

[MechaBowser]

Map crashes when you die :(
edit: more specifically, when you respawn after death

edit2: this might actually be because I removed the CP, I'll check it without doing so in a bit