The survival part of the game is bad on a fundamental level. - Games

[URL="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1271915-the-survival-part-of-the-game-is-bad-on-a-fundamental-level"]http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1271915-the-survival-part-of-the-game-is-bad-on-a-fundamental-level[/URL] [B][U]I DID NOT MAKE THIS[/U][/B] I assume most of you have seen this, If not I thought I would bring it here for discussion as some butthurt fag mods locked it. I for one agree 100% percent with this. Pro-Tip: If you don't agree with this, [I][U][B]You don't know shit about video games.[/B][/U][/I] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Crap thread" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Grape Soda;36434486][URL="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1271915-the-survival-part-of-the-game-is-bad-on-a-fundamental-level"]http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1271915-the-survival-part-of-the-game-is-bad-on-a-fundamental-level[/URL] [B][U]I DID NOT MAKE THIS[/U][/B] I assume most of you have seen this, If not I thought I would bring it here for discussion as some butthurt fag mods locked it. I for one agree 100% percent with this. Pro-Tip: If you don't agree with this, [I][U][B]You don't know shit about video games.[/B][/U][/I][/QUOTE] I personally don't agree about changing the difficulty mid-game being stupid. It's stupid if people use it, yes, but just because it's an option doesn't mean you HAVE to use it.

[QUOTE=Grape Soda;36434486]Pro-Tip: If you don't agree with this, [I][U][B]You don't know shit about video games.[/B][/U][/I][/QUOTE] if you dont agree with this YOURE WRONG

Alternatively play hardcore mode. I'd like to see you complain that it's "too easy".

The thread part of the thread is bad on a fundamental level.

he's kinda right, dig a hole in the ground and youre safe from mobs forever. and having to rely on the wiki because the game doesn't explain anything is retarded.

[QUOTE=a-k-t-w;36435223]he's kinda right, dig a hole in the ground and youre safe from mobs forever. and having to rely on the wiki because the game doesn't explain anything is retarded.[/QUOTE] I actually spent a while trying to find a mod that lists items you can craft in-game, like a crafting book or something. Is there one that actually does that or will I just have to always have the wiki open?

[QUOTE=ViralHatred;36434954]Alternatively play hardcore mode. I'd like to see you complain that it's "too easy".[/QUOTE] Hardcore mode or at least the idea of it is flawed in my opinion. The system Indev had was fantastic. You save the game every so often, and if you die then tough shit, you died. Go reload an earlier save. The current system of dying, respawning and just running back to your items to pick them up or walking over to your super safe house is just.. eh. It doesn't feel like survival. There is no penalty for dying unless you die in lava or something, meaning you lose a few items. All "hardcore" mode does is make dying more annoying. Let's say you've just finished building that awesome house you always wanted, picked up a full set of diamond tools and armour and just finished placing the last block in the solid gold wang you build in your front lawn. Suddenly you fall into a hole and die. With hardcore mode that's it. Done. Everything is gone, good day, see you next time. Non hardcore worlds are just as bad - "oh no i died let me walk from my spawn to my house lol okay everything's back to normal :)))))". It makes a singleplayer game built around the idea of [I]survival[/I] either not have actually, y'know, [I]surviving[/I] as its core component or make it ridiculously over punishing if a random mob lands on your head in a cave. I know plenty of people who'd rather just chuck themselves off a cliff when their hunger meter empties than actually go and look for food. Don't get me wrong, hunger was a step in the right direction sure but it's just a nuisance when dying is much more convenient in non hardcore mode worlds. In hardcore mode, hunger poses a legitimate issue, but when death is just so ridiculously annoying it's almost not worth playing hardcore to be honest. Why not instead of having this all-or-nothing system with how much dying actually affects gameplay do it how pretty much every other game ever does it - if you die, reload from an earlier point when you weren't dead. This would require a bit of restructuring for the save files but as a programmer I can tell you it's more than possible. Tediously simple in fact, and it would vastly improve ( I believe ) the survival aspect of "survival" mode. Fuck, keep hardcore mode, just give me some kind of middle ground for christ's sake. [editline]22nd June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=rinoaff33;36435517]I actually spent a while trying to find a mod that lists items you can craft in-game, like a crafting book or something. Is there one that actually does that or will I just have to always have the wiki open?[/QUOTE] Risugami's recipe book, or the crafting book mod.

[QUOTE=rinoaff33;36435517]I actually spent a while trying to find a mod that lists items you can craft in-game, like a crafting book or something. Is there one that actually does that or will I just have to always have the wiki open?[/QUOTE] 5 seconds in google: [url]http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/75440-v125-risugamis-mods-everything-updated/[/url] it's above the shelf mod.

[QUOTE=ViralHatred;36434954]Alternatively play hardcore mode. I'd like to see you complain that it's "too easy".[/QUOTE] It's really just the Endermen that are tough, and that's going by the mistake of going out unarmored.

[QUOTE=Azur;36436499]Hardcore mode or at least the idea of it is flawed in my opinion. The system Indev had was fantastic. You save the game every so often, and if you die then tough shit, you died. Go reload an earlier save. The current system of dying, respawning and just running back to your items to pick them up or walking over to your super safe house is just.. eh. It doesn't feel like survival. There is no penalty for dying unless you die in lava or something, meaning you lose a few items. All "hardcore" mode does is make dying more annoying. Let's say you've just finished building that awesome house you always wanted, picked up a full set of diamond tools and armour and just finished placing the last block in the solid gold wang you build in your front lawn. Suddenly you fall into a hole and die. With hardcore mode that's it. Done. Everything is gone, good day, see you next time. Non hardcore worlds are just as bad - "oh no i died let me walk from my spawn to my house lol okay everything's back to normal :)))))". It makes a singleplayer game built around the idea of [I]survival[/I] either not have actually, y'know, [I]surviving[/I] as its core component or make it ridiculously over punishing if a random mob lands on your head in a cave. I know plenty of people who'd rather just chuck themselves off a cliff when their hunger meter empties than actually go and look for food. Don't get me wrong, hunger was a step in the right direction sure but it's just a nuisance when dying is much more convenient in non hardcore mode worlds. In hardcore mode, hunger poses a legitimate issue, but when death is just so ridiculously annoying it's almost not worth playing hardcore to be honest. Why not instead of having this all-or-nothing system with how much dying actually affects gameplay do it how pretty much every other game ever does it - if you die, reload from an earlier point when you weren't dead. This would require a bit of restructuring for the save files but as a programmer I can tell you it's more than possible. Tediously simple in fact, and it would vastly improve ( I believe ) the survival aspect of "survival" mode. Fuck, keep hardcore mode, just give me some kind of middle ground for christ's sake. [editline]22nd June 2012[/editline] Risugami's recipe book, or the crafting book mod.[/QUOTE] hardcore is great because at any moment you could lose everything. though youre right. when you die, that should be it and you should have to load a earlier save.

Reading that thread made me see how bad Minecraft vanilla is, and how good it could be. So many damn things that could be, or should be added, but no.

While I agree, Minecraft's survival gamemode actually doesn't involve survival, the OP sounds like a douchenozzle in his post and totally destroyed a feasible argument. Minecraft could be much more fun if it was much more difficult, much more complex, and much more realistic. (while still retaining the blocky look to keep the "art style" it's famous for.

I kind of get the feeling reading that that he... wants to be playing a [I]different game[/I].

I agree with about half of what he says. Changing the other half would be changing was minecraft is as a game. The biomes and world generation could use improvement, but I don't want to see 20 new weapons introduced.

i would like to see some melee weapon with longer range and less damage though... maybe a shield.

you're actually wrong and you can't force your stupid opinions upon people, where did your ego and merit come from, thin air?

I honestly don't think a lot of what he said is wrong, rather how he came across in the OP made him seem stupid. I mean, look at these suggestions: [quote] -Do more things like the "zombies can break down doors in hard". THIS actually makes for difficulty- mob intelligence. Preferably, make zombies able to break down doors in normal. -Add more mechanics that are changed via difficulty. -Make normal harder than the current game, and hard truly difficult. Easy should be about as easy as it currently is (which is actually very easy). -Give mobs a lot more abilities. Zombies that can turn villagers into zombies, make zombies not de-spawn in hard, allow spiders to hang upside down, etc. Then adjust whether these abilities work or not depending on game-mode. -Have more unique, biome-only rewards. Things like ingredients for new potions- USEFUL new potions. Hell, lilypads could be used for a "Potion of Water Walking". Things like this make biomes useful to travel to. -As per above, more biome-specific mobs. Not "SssSand creeper (:", or mummies that are zombies with a different skin, or something equally dumb. I mean a mob that's really different from the other ones still, and give unique item drops. Snakes that are the size of silverfish, but can poison you, and only attack you if you get pretty close to them. Sharks that only spawn in ocean biomes, and drop shark fins used for... some water-based potion. Things like this. I could go on for hours, but I'd rather make a mod to show how it can be done. -Make trees taller. Seriously, they look like crap. I've already doubled the height of oaks and birch, and they look great (like they always should have looked). Pine/spruce look alright, though. -Make a proper pre-requisite system to biome generation- right now, it's pretty much entirely random where biomes spawn, so you have taigas next to deserts, etc. They should use a flowchart of sorts- getting which biome is there, then deciding which biome(s) to generate around it depending on whether or not it would be appropriate to place it there. This wouldn't be too hard to implement, and would make things look a lot better. This also relies upon more biomes being put in (for more "transitional" biomes, like savanna between plains and desert), but that's kind've a given. -As mentioned above, more biomes. Not just for the sake of having them, of course- but by now, that should also be a given. Things like Savanna's, Bogs, Marshlands, Hills (Just hills, not extreme hills... which should be renamed to mountains, anyway), Badlands, and plenty more. All of which have some use, and all of which should look different. -Variations of existing biomes. Things like spruce forests (not just in taiga's anymore), rocky mountains (all stone instead of grass/dirt), forest mountain (think eastern United States) and so on would be nice. Variations of stone types would help, as well- brown, dark grey, etc. Similar to the variations in wood. -Make plains more flat. Right now, they're basically hills, and that's a little silly. Make a hills biome, splitting it from the plains biome. -Deserts shouldn't have pools of water in them. This is just stupid. Players should have to use desert wells for water here. -Add in "Knockback" as a weapon stat. At the same time, add "knockback resistance" to armor, with heavier armor having more knockback resistance. Mobs should also have varying levels of knockback resistance- skeletons could be easy to knock back, but zombies would be harder. Generally speaking, it should be harder to knock things back than it is right now. -Add an attack speed stat for weapons. The fastest should be the default attack speed (which is 3 per second IIRC). Pretty straightforward- -Make new weapons. Battle axes, maces, spears, crossbows- all of that, and preferably more. Give them unique levels of of those 3 stats (Damage, knockback, and attack speed). Then, give them unique secondary abilities (right click)- spears can be thrown, maces can stun, and so on. Maybe even make different weapons have another ability- spears could hit 1 block farther than regular weapons, etc. Tons of ideas, and as long as they're balanced, they'd be fantastic. -Increase default sprint speed. Then, divide armor into different "armor classes", or assign them different "weight" levels. The better the armor, the heavier it is- heavy armor would make you sprint slower, and after a certain point, you'd be unable to sprint with really heavy armor. It should also disable certain other abilities (again, more on this later) after certain points. This would make going without armor fairly viable- just the same, going in full armor would mean you'd not be knocked back nearly as easily (and plus still be a juggernaut). [/quote] Honestly, though some of his ideas are bad, a good lot of them are actually very good. It just seems like a large amount of players here are afraid of change in Minecraft. Honestly, the game is piss easy as it is, and more aspects and complex gameplay would really make it more fun. I mean, everyone begged for Jeb to reintroduce the complex brewing, but nobody likes the idea of more complex and rewarding combat and mobs that are actually scary? I feel like you're just bandwagoning on this guy now. Sums up most people's opinions on the game nicely. [quote] [b]"The game is about building, not fighting."[/b] Creative mode is for building. Just because survival mode lacks content doesn't mean it's "not about fighting". That just means it lacks content. [/quote]

he has a couple good points, the game needs a tutorial/good ways to actually learn things/etc, but most of his post is autistic whining that the game isnt exactly how he wants it.

It's a very good list, and most things on there would vastly improve the game. But locking difficulty should be reserved for Hardcore tbh.

[QUOTE=DarkendSky;36444370]he has a couple good points, the game needs a tutorial/good ways to actually learn things/etc, but most of his post is autistic whining that the game isnt exactly how he wants it.[/QUOTE] Last I checked, complaining that the main feature of the game lacks the content that was promised to us when we bought it isn't autistic. You fail to remember the huge amount of fuss the Minecraft forum here has made because vanilla MC lacks content. His complaints are justified. MC is a game that split into multiple directions but never added a proper amount of content in any one direction. What we have is a game, that 3 years in the making is still not complete, with the core gameplay elements still shallow as hell even after all this time. MC gets boring, not because of the lack of items, world, blocks, or mobs, but because of the lack of unique things you can find or do with those items and blocks. I mean, the game is bland as fuck, with only two real things to do, build or survive. Survival is a joke because you literally don't have to do very much to survive. MC survival needs to be much, much, much harder, and gameplay needs to be much more complex without being too much. I mean, at this point, DayZ is a better survival game than MC.

I agree with pretty much all of this. Sure, I could see slight tweaks in his ideas, but I think if Minecraft was like this the game would be amazing.

I agree with a lot of his points. I would like to see mobs be able to do more thank walk straight toward the player and attack them. I've said for a long time that hardcore mode should bring with it zombies that can break down wooden doors, break glass and dirt, spiders that can dig through dirt, creepers that will blow up at your walls, etc. That and the fact that I can avoid all danger by simply building my house and making it flying.

He's also incorrect about mob health being increased from difficulty. It's only damage and damage effects - for example, cave spiders' poison lasts longer the higher the difficulty, but a lot of his points are interesting. Locking difficulty should be reserved for hardcore only, but they should do what they did with xbox and make it so you can only change it at the world load screen, not when you're slashing down in the caves and decide you want to despawn everything. [editline]22nd June 2012[/editline] Except on Creative, where difficulty should be freely changable.

[QUOTE=Insane516;36444142]you're actually wrong and you can't force your stupid opinions upon people, where did your ego and merit come from, thin air?[/QUOTE] Minecraft in its current state is objectively bad, don't deny it.

[QUOTE=Grape Soda;36445341]Minecraft in its current state is objectively bad, don't deny it.[/QUOTE] Objectively bad would imply that the game does not function. Your opinion is not objective.

grape soda, that guy's post makes a lot of fantastic points, but he (and you) come off too aggressive

I really don't get half of the things he's saying here, for example: [QUOTE]1a: The reliance on the wiki/community. Survival mode relies HEAVILY on the wiki to know what to do.[/QUOTE] No, it doesn't. It's really not that hard to figure out how to craft most things, I mean, a torch, a stick with a piece of coal on top. [QUOTE]1b: How to fix it. Give the player a book straight in their inventory. Something like a "recipe book"[/QUOTE] That would just ruin it in my opinion, it doesn't need any sort of tutorial, you can pretty much figure everything out for yourself. [QUOTE]2a: The difficulty. Difficulty in the current game is... silly. It's a step backwards in what difficulty should be. Instead of changing game mechanics a bit to actually enhance difficulty, it just artificially enhances difficulty by increasing/decreasing mob health and damage. This is silly, and frankly, lazy.[/QUOTE] Quite frankly, I agree that the difficulty may need some improvements. [QUOTE]5a: Lack of equipment choice. I really hate this. There hasn't been a real new weapon since swords. That's... I just don't even have a word for this.[/QUOTE] Well, what else do you expect? All the other things he listed are basically the same as the other tools just aesthetically different. [QUOTE]6a: Lack of player abilities You can jump. Yay! You can "sneak". Yay! You can sprint. Yay! And that's it. SIGH[/QUOTE] Of course, with the utmost carefulness, the whole grabbing ideacould be a good feature (I believe there's already a mod that features this) [QUOTE]7a: The community is terrible. Anyone who has the slightest amount of intelligence would realize that the MC community is absolute rubbish. They complain any time something new is added, yet at the same time, are ok with anything Mojang adds. [/QUOTE] The only thing I don't like is the whole enchantment and potions thing, but it's an interesting feature. [QUOTE]Steve looks like SHIT.[/QUOTE] Steve looks fine, get a different skin if you really [B]don't[/B] like him. [QUOTE]-Make trees taller.[/QUOTE] Trees could be taller, and in the picture he showed: [IMG]http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5919/20120602173240.png[/IMG] They do actually look a lot better, although, it''s [B]very[/B] awkward chopping them down at that height. [QUOTE]Remove the ability to change difficulty mid-game.[/QUOTE] No, that'd be stupid. Of course though, that's all just my opinion.

I like point 7a because it applies to this guy. People who come up with these lists don't seem to know jack shit about making an accessible game or game design in general. The only point I really agree on is reliance on the wiki.

[QUOTE=Bletotum;36446504]grape soda, that guy's post makes a lot of fantastic points, but he (and you) come off too aggressive[/QUOTE] I guess I was a bit TOO mean... Just wasted potential in a game like minecraft really makes me angry.