How to make the most realistic shooter? - Games

Before commenting, please read: I know realism =/= fun. But that doesn't stop me from finding a way to make something realistic yet fun. We have to combine the most important elements of both to try and make something unqie. First of all, what exactly shall we define as realistic? I propose we try and aim for what the mechanics of a real combat situation, so this means manoeuvres such as flanking, the battle on a larger scale and wounds. Emotional elements and the like shouldn't be stressed too much, though some elements, like tunnel vision (soldiers under heavy fire forgetting everything around them and focussing on the location the fire is coming from) could still be shown, but in moderation as to not make it annoying for the player. That said, in order to be realistic, we would need some sort of cover system. When running towards a wall, the player character immediately hugs against it and peeks around corners, or if under heavy fire, fires quick pot shots at the enemy. Additionally, the effects of wounds should be realistically portrayed. That means that if a bullet hits the head or chest, death is imminent. Belly, arms and legs should knock the player backwards, onto the floor, though the player should be able of recuperating from small wounds (to the lower arms/legs) and keep fighting, albeit with some restrictions. No sprinting, for example, would be an idea for a wound to the leg. Now, for both this and the cover system to actually work, we'd need a 3rd person perspective. This way, the player can immediately pick up signals such as his character being wounded and limping. This would also help the player know how much ammo is left without the need of a HUD, by removing a magazine from the belt after each reload. The problem is that many players could be reluctant to play in squads. What I think would be a good idea, is splitting each map into "zones". A zone belongs to whichever team is currently there or had soldiers there before it became empty. A single player, the commander, should be able of giving orders to squad leaders. The commander could tell a squad leader to attack a zone with a church, for example. The score of the commander and squad (both leader and members) are increased if the squad fights in this zone, and ultimately, they also get a decent bonus if they completely conquer the entire zone. The squad leader, in turn, can also give orders. Let's say that the squad is fighting its way in the church. The entire squad has a score multiplier because they're in the church, plus the points they get for killing enemies, resupplying or reviving teammates. The squad leader can then order the MG gunner to give suppressive fire from a certain location, or tell the grenadier to breach a certain door. Whenever they do such a task, they either get another multiplier (as with the MG gunner) or an instant bonus (such as breaching the door). The idea is that, essentially, the more complex orders are given, the more the players (ALL players) are rewarded. A player simply killing an enemy would, for example, get 5 points. But this player, fighting in the right zone (X2), completing a certain objective (I.E. destroying a tank = 20 points + 5 points for each member inside the tank, let's say an entire squad = 5x6), with a certain vehicle (order was given to use a tank of his own = X2 again) after being ordered to do so by the squad leader (x2) would get: 20 + (5x6) x2 x2 x2 = 400 points instead of the 5 points he would have gotten if acting alone. The maps will have all kinds of gamemodes, excluding deathmatch, team deatchmatch and other gamemodes where players could play alone. The team that wins is the one that completes all its objectives first or within a certain time (or preventing the enemy from doing the latter, of course). So there, that's how I think we should make a realistic shooter. If we have 4 squads or so on each team, we have 50 players on the entire map, which should be enough to have some interesting matches. Other features could include things such as the commander buying vehicles with points that are gained from controlling specific zones. As for respawning, perhaps players only respawn if their entire squad dies and respawns at base or if their squad is in a zone without any enemies inside it.

In realistic shooter, unless it's paintball, you don't get points.

Well, yes, but if we don't reward the player in any way, they will just go about and do whatever they feel like. I doubt that's going to be realistic.

Most realistic game ever You play it once and then have to buy a new copy Kind of like Left 4 Dead now that I think of it....

[QUOTE=jcallan;18165784]Most realistic game ever You play it once and then have to buy a new copy Kind of like Left 4 Dead now that I think of it....[/QUOTE] Oh I get it was that suppose to be funny? [editline]07:05AM[/editline] Also realism isn't that fun, I like playing games where there are fun explosions and stuff.

[QUOTE=Valdor;18165795]Oh I get it was that suppose to be funny? [/QUOTE] I'm a regular Bill Hicks I am

[img]http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/SolidSnake.png[/img] War doesn't have any points.... Or sides. Only losses.... Unfortunately killing doesn't get easier the more you do it.

Sounds like you're trying to make an expanded teamplay shooter here.

How cute, someone trying to say that realism=fun.

killing floor is realistic in the sense its iron sights only...other then the zambies it's realistic.

Realism is fun when you're working with a well organised team, like playing with a clan in Arma. Your idea sounds just like battlefield with a few tweaks and heavily relying on randoms working together. Also cover systems aren't realistic, getting right next to a wall reduces your field of domination with your weapon far too much to cover that sector adequately.

Play some Red Orchestra.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;18165969]How cute, someone trying to say that realism=fun.[/QUOTE] Hey, smart ass, here's a list of successful realistic FPSs and mods that make people who spout that stupid shit look like idiots: Rainbow six 1 Rainbow six 2 Rainbow six 3 Red Orchestra: Ostfront Brothers in Arms 1&2 Brothers in Arms: Highway to Hell SWAT 3 SWAT 4 Vietcong Ghost Recon Operation Flashpoint Armed Assault Hidden & Dangerous 1 Hidden & Dangerous 2 Project Reality Infiltration WW2OL/Battleground Europe That's just to name some. I didn't even bring up some titles which people lump into the realistic category, such as America's Army or Insurgency, because I don't count those as realistic.

make it like the book 'forgotten soldier' then it will be realistic and no one will play it willingly [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Soldier[/url] "This devastating first-hand story of a young German soldier trapped in the lethal machinery of total war on the Eastern Front in World War II captures the real experience of modern war in all its shattering terror. This is one man's true story of the bitter, killing cold of the Russian winter, of vicious combat against Russian partisans, and of the carnage of battles against a desperate but merciless Red Army with its mind-numbing artillery attacks and endless waves of infantry and tanks. Posted to the crack Grosse Deutschland division, with its savage training where instructors will shoot down those who refuse to shape up, the soldier enters a violent and remorseless world that relentlessly destroys any hope and ideals and where all that matters is brute survival fighting a relentless enemy. Sajer, like so many soldiers, at first presents the story of his training and embarkation to the Russian Front as a romantic adventure. Yet, page by page, it turns into the Anabasis as experienced by German Landsers (Infantry) in the war as the tide turned against them. His initiation to the war takes place as a soldier in a transportation unit in the winter of 1942-43. Following this, he and several of his closest comrades volunteer for the elite Wehrmacht panzergrenadier division Grossdeutschland. Thereafter, they find themselves in battle after battle, each time with less equipment, fewer resources and a stronger enemy. In the end the fighting becomes hopeless, and the ordeal and desperate courage of the Landsers becomes pointless. For Sajer, all their courage and heroism counts for nothing. At the end, when he returns home to live among the victors of the war, he cannot share his experiences or hope to describe them."

Yeah, there's not a whole lot of games out there that tell the story from the German point-of-view.

As soon as your character takes a bullet in the thigh, you can't play for one month as he is recovering at the hospital.

[QUOTE=professional;18166609]Hey, smart ass, here's a list of successful realistic FPSs and mods that make people who spout that stupid shit look like idiots: Rainbow six 1 Rainbow six 2 Rainbow six 3 Red Orchestra: Ostfront Brothers in Arms 1&2 Brothers in Arms: Highway to Hell SWAT 3 SWAT 4 Vietcong Ghost Recon Operation Flashpoint Armed Assault Hidden & Dangerous 1 Hidden & Dangerous 2 Project Reality Infiltration WW2OL/Battleground Europe That's just to name some. I didn't even bring up some titles which people lump into the realistic category, such as America's Army or Insurgency, because I don't count those as realistic.[/QUOTE] many of those aren't fun to play, and operation flashpoint hasn't been out long enough to tell if it's succsessful or not.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;18167902]many of those aren't fun to play, and operation flashpoint hasn't been out long enough to tell if it's succsessful or not.[/QUOTE] Maybe he was talking about the first Operation Flashpoint, or about the series as a whole...

[QUOTE=professional;18166609]Hey, smart ass, here's a list of successful realistic FPSs and mods that make people who spout that stupid shit look like idiots: Rainbow six 1 Rainbow six 2 Rainbow six 3 Red Orchestra: Ostfront Brothers in Arms 1&2 Brothers in Arms: Highway to Hell SWAT 3 SWAT 4 Vietcong Ghost Recon Operation Flashpoint Armed Assault Hidden & Dangerous 1 Hidden & Dangerous 2 Project Reality Infiltration WW2OL/Battleground Europe That's just to name some. I didn't even bring up some titles which people lump into the realistic category, such as America's Army or Insurgency, because I don't count those as realistic.[/QUOTE] In most of those games you can nearly always spot the ADD Halo-kid, usually you see him running around shooting without hitting anyone, getting shot, whine over the chat on how the game sucks, and then ragequit. And if someone really thinks that realism can't be fun ("baaaawwww I had to wait an entire minute before I met an enemy waaaaaahhhh"), then Ritalin helps a lot.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;18167902]many of those aren't fun to play, and operation flashpoint hasn't been out long enough to tell if it's succsessful or not.[/QUOTE] Nice opinion you got there. I happen to think realistic shooters are hella fun when done right. Red Orchestra is awesome imo. I also like Insurgency a ton (Not entirely sure as to why it doesn't count as realistic, prolly cause of the dumbed down squad system.)

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;18167902]many of those aren't fun to play, and operation flashpoint hasn't been out long enough to tell if it's succsessful or not.[/QUOTE] Uhh what? Do you have any idea what you just said? 1. All of those games have enjoyed a great deal of success. Just because you don't find them fun yourself doesn't mean others don't. Hence why the idiots argument of realism =/= fun is nothing more than a mere unfounded [b]opinion.[/b] 2. Operation Flashpoint has been around since 2001, it was widely praised and won many awards. [QUOTE=Specter;18168110] I happen to think realistic shooters are hella fun when done right. Red Orchestra is awesome imo. I also like Insurgency a ton (Not entirely sure as to why it doesn't count as realistic, prolly cause of the dumbed down squad system.)[/QUOTE] The problem I have with Insurgency is because of the stubborness of the devs and refusal to listen to the community, they've degraded INS into what plays like laser tag with a middle eastern theme. Many draw comparisons between RO and INS, but what do you notice different about the firefights in RO and INS? In RO (even in mods with a high amount of semi automatic/automatic weaponry, like DH) people miss during firefights. Alot. RO is representative of combat accuracy. INS on the other hand, has been coded so that all weapons have so little recoil and virtually no shaking that you can play twitch shoot at 600 meters with no trouble. Since WW2, standard infantry procedures have all relied on suppressive fire to do anything. In RO, there's good reason for suppressive fire and it works. In INS, suppressive fire is pointless, you'll hit your target at any given time. There's alot of other reasons but I won't delve into here, this post is big enough as it is.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;18167902]many of those aren't fun to play, and [B]operation flashpoint hasn't been out long enough to tell if it's succsessful or not.[/B][/QUOTE] I'd say 9 years are more than enough.

[QUOTE=professional;18168112] The problem I have with Insurgency is because of the stubborness of the devs and refusal to listen to the community, they've degraded INS into what plays like laser tag with a middle eastern theme. Many draw comparisons between RO and INS, but what do you notice different about the firefights in RO and INS? In RO (even in mods with a high amount of semi automatic/automatic weaponry, like DH) people miss during firefights. Alot. RO is representative of combat accuracy. INS on the other hand, has been coded so that all weapons have so little recoil and virtually no shaking that you can play twitch shoot at 600 meters with no trouble. Since WW2, standard infantry procedures have all relied on suppressive fire to do anything. In RO, there's good reason for suppressive fire and it works. In INS, suppressive fire is pointless, you'll hit your target at any given time. There's alot of other reasons but I won't delve into here, this post is big enough as it is.[/QUOTE] Those are some damn good points. I've never really thought about that but yea, it bugs me that range is not an issue whatsoever in INS. I still like it though but RO remains my realistic game of choice. If only they'd add mantling so I can hop over a barricade instead of having to run around.

[QUOTE=professional;18166609]Hey, smart ass, here's a list of successful realistic FPSs and mods that make people who spout that stupid shit look like idiots: Rainbow six 1 Rainbow six 2 Rainbow six 3 Red Orchestra: Ostfront Brothers in Arms 1&2 Brothers in Arms: Highway to Hell SWAT 3 SWAT 4 Vietcong Ghost Recon Operation Flashpoint Armed Assault Hidden & Dangerous 1 Hidden & Dangerous 2 Project Reality Infiltration WW2OL/Battleground Europe That's just to name some. I didn't even bring up some titles which people lump into the realistic category, such as America's Army or Insurgency, because I don't count those as realistic.[/QUOTE] Everything in this list is greatness. :love: Raven Shield.

I'm very surprised that not one of you has said "buy a gun."

Buy a gun

The most realistic game would be the one where you die in real life if you die ingame.

So judging with the games I've played I'd have suggest that a realistic game would actually be pretty simple when it comes to ideas and concepts for gameplay. There are many games already that have realistic features. For example Metal Gear Solid 4 The psyche system, which you've explained is implemented. If snake's psyche is low and he's stressed, it's harder for him to concentrate and even drives him out of control. Gears of War The very well known cover system. Allows movement from cover to cover fluently. The idea of blind firing as well. Brothers in Arms (preferably Hell's Highway) Implementation of battle tactics and actual squad control/usefulness. In Hell's Highway, you can actually complete the game without firing a single shot, meaning your use of fire/assault teams and what not are actually useful, not just there for the name. I yet have to find a game that has realistic gun ballistics and stuff. Most first person shooters are a bit weird when it comes to iron sights. In a game, with the press of a button, your gun is already centered and you can just shoot away. Realistically, you would be able to quickly center your rifle but I bet it wouldn't take that short of time to do so. I really like the idea of tunnel vision though! I don't know any games that include that. If there just happens to be a game that has realism then I would probably love it, regardless it's difficulty.

Games are the last thing but realistic. If you want realism - join the army, and go to Afghanistan.

[QUOTE=KestasLT;18169468]Games are the last thing but realistic. If you want realism - join the army, and go to Afghanistan.[/QUOTE] If only there was a rating lower than dumb.