The most Redundant Heroes/Items - Games

Just a small thread for debate basically post about • Heroes/Items that share too many similarities/or why some similarities are justified • Why the inclusion/exclusion of a certain hero/item is justified • How these redundancies can be fixed/avoided

why do we have enigma (bar his jungling and support capabilities) when we have magnus

I think Pugna not really fitting at the moment is fairly justified, there are heroes which do his job and better, and he's just been replaced. EDIT: I think the advantage to Enigma is that you gain insane pushing power, and a reliable stun, and in terms of the ultimates, you actually have the capability to trap people that weren't in at the start.

Bloodseeker.

zeus. also Vanguard.

Zeus isn't really redundant i'd say, he's a good source of lategame scaling magic damage, and he has the obvious advantage of making sure any kills happen. Although he can get outlaned at mid fairly easily if the person playing him isn't careful.

Vanguard is mostly useless unless you're playing Axe, imo. There's basically nobody besides Axe I'd actually recommend it on unless you can get it @ 10-12 minutes - and even then I think Slardar/Bristleback are the only viable Heroes.

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;40329889]Vanguard is mostly useless unless you're playing Axe, imo. There's basically nobody besides Axe I'd actually recommend it on unless you can get it @ 10-12 minutes - and even then I think Slardar/Bristleback are the only viable Heroes.[/QUOTE] No. I'll lynch you if I ever see you build Vanguard on Bristleback. It is NOT AT ALL viable IN THE SLIGHTEST. There is NEVER any reason you should EVER buy Vanguard on Bristleback over a Hood. EVER.

[QUOTE=spanaren;40330166]No. I'll lynch you if I ever see you build Vanguard on Bristleback. It is NOT AT ALL viable IN THE SLIGHTEST. There is NEVER any reason you should EVER buy Vanguard on Bristleback over a Hood. EVER.[/QUOTE] Really? What if the enemy team has almost no nukes/strong casters?

[QUOTE=spanaren;40330166]No. I'll lynch you if I ever see you build Vanguard on Bristleback. It is NOT AT ALL viable IN THE SLIGHTEST. There is NEVER any reason you should EVER buy Vanguard on Bristleback over a Hood. EVER.[/QUOTE] If the enemy team has no significant source of magic damage, why would we need a Pipe?

Skywrath's silence is exactly the same one used for Orchids, they just have different values, and one was made Object Ability, the other Hero ability.

[QUOTE=Malvodion;40330540]Skywrath's silence is exactly the same one used for Orchids, they just have different values, and one was made Object Ability, the other Hero ability.[/QUOTE] there are a couple items that are basically hero skills. Take ghost scepter for an example.

[QUOTE=Gilgadood;40330570]there are a couple items that are basically hero skills. Take ghost scepter for an example.[/QUOTE] ethereal blade seems like a better example

[QUOTE=Gilgadood;40330570]there are a couple items that are basically hero skills. Take ghost scepter for an example.[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/e/ef/Anti-Mage.png[/img] [img]http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/4/4c/Blink_Dagger_icon.png[/img] To extend the idea.

[QUOTE=Zoran;40330629][img]http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/e/ef/Anti-Mage.png[/img] [img]http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/4/4c/Blink_Dagger_icon.png[/img] To extend the idea.[/QUOTE] blink dagger doesn't have a cast animation

[QUOTE=Unisath;40330644]blink dagger doesn't have a cast animation[/QUOTE] It's still virtually the same thing. It's not like it's worth buying a blink dagger on AM just to do away with the .25(?) second cast animation.

[QUOTE=Unisath;40330644]blink dagger doesn't have a cast animation[/QUOTE] Plus you could even throw in a dagon so you can slam the enemy's faces off. Double blink pretty much makes you completely impossible to escape, or even chase down unless they stunlock you. It's actaully kinda viable. [I]Kind of.[/I] [I]Hardly recommended at [B]ALL[/B], infact, i advise it never be done in a real match, but still...it can work. [/I]

I dunno if fitting here but people who rush rapier and thinking they're hot shit, but then throwing away the game by fighting in a 1v5

Is bloodseeker really that bad? I'm pretty new so I don't really know but I was able to do well with him when I got mid.

[QUOTE=ryfry99;40332570]Is bloodseeker really that bad? I'm pretty new so I don't really know but I was able to do well with him when I got mid.[/QUOTE] He can be good at low level play, but you'll find that his effectiveness goes down as the skill of the enemy goes up. Plus, a lot of other heroes do his job better and his ult can be avoided by simply tp'ing away

[QUOTE=lord0war;40332587]He can be good at low level play, but you'll find that his effectiveness goes down as the skill of the enemy goes up. Plus, a lot of other heroes do his job better and his ult can be avoided by simply tp'ing away[/QUOTE] Alright makes sense. The guys i play are still noobs so they run away or dont buy tps. What ganker hero should i be learning instead? I tried riki and didn't like him all that much.

[QUOTE=ryfry99;40332570]Is bloodseeker really that bad? I'm pretty new so I don't really know but I was able to do well with him when I got mid.[/QUOTE] Bloodseeker is flawed in concept because he relies on you being able to see low health enemies and them not being able to see you. If they have wards up (which better players always do), the low-health guy will be able to avoid you or at least get help. And yeah, he's hard countered by a teleport scroll so that's not fun either.

[QUOTE=ryfry99;40333443]Alright makes sense. The guys i play are still noobs so they run away or dont buy tps. What ganker hero should i be learning instead? I tried riki and didn't like him all that much.[/QUOTE] Night stalker is a great ganker, as are clinkz, phantom assassin, and templar assassin

Silencer to me has always seemed a bit flawed in that there's 3 other heroes in the game now with an AOE silence that lasts for as long as his ulti, except they don't have a 2 minute cooldown.

save people from ganks from across the map? idk that like all i see it useful for

[QUOTE=Pocket Medic;40333898]Silencer to me has always seemed a bit flawed in that there's 3 other heroes in the game now with an AOE silence that lasts for as long as his ulti, except they don't have a 2 minute cooldown.[/QUOTE] but their silences dont pierce BKB. Also battle fury on BH is redundant.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;40334483]but their silences dont pierce BKB. Also battle fury on BH is redundant.[/QUOTE] BKB pierces global silence, though. "All you have to do" is wait for him to use the global before using your BKB, provided you've not been killed by spells already.

[QUOTE=Zoran;40330629][img]http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/e/ef/Anti-Mage.png[/img] [img]http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/4/4c/Blink_Dagger_icon.png[/img] To extend the idea.[/QUOTE] "Blink dagger... really?"

[QUOTE=devon_wargod;40329654]why do we have enigma (bar his jungling and support capabilities) when we have magnus[/QUOTE] so you can have them on the same team, of course!

In my opinion, Lion doesn't scale into late game at all. There's way too much magic resistance for his stuff to be useful, but correct me if I'm wrong.