Why "Gaming" has died and is not "ART"

[King of Limbs]

First off. Let me clarify. I am not breaking any rules by posting this in this forum subsection as seen below. [B]

These rules apply to ALL subsections of Games:

• Don't make threads about game updates, especially if you have no information about them. Keep them in the megathreads.
• Don't reply to threads just to be an ass. Be constructive; or don't post at all.
• Don't make threads if you've just been scammed, or if someone is attempting to scam you.
• Don't spam useless shit to get a megathread closed quickly. This includes attempting dumb "witty" last posts.
• Don't make threads asking what to buy or play/if you should buy or play something.
• Don't make "post your" threads. These are usually, but not limited to, threads asking for our opinion. This includes threads like: what is the best game of X genre, what we think is the best X in a game, post a list of X, in X game what's the best way to do X, etc.
• Don't beg for games.
• Don't make threads to beg people to work on your mod when you are the "ideas guy".
• Don't showcase your mod without having lots of content. If you don't think you have enough, post it in the appropriate megathread.
• Don't make threads when you have Steam related issues.
• Don't make a thread if you are stuck in your game. Use the megathread for that game, if there is one, or look up a guide.
• This isn't a support forum; don't make a thread if your game or console is broken. If you think your game isn't working because your computer is malfunctioning, ask for assistance in the [URL="http://www.facepunch.com/forums/107-Technical-Support"]Technical Support section[/URL].

If you don't follow these rules while posting, you'll probably get banned.
If you make a thread that breaks these rules, it will be locked. If it's exceptionally awful, you'll get banned as well! You have been warned.

[B]Report threads and posters that you see breaking these rules.

[B]PM a moderator if you have a rule you'd like added to the list.

[/B][/B][/B]Now lets get the obvious out of the way.

1.

As any "art form" has matured and proceeded it has made its way into the "mass" audience.
This has led to an interest for certain individuals from this "mass" to want to create the "art" they enjoy.
As money became an incentive for these "artists" of this "mass" art the quality of work declined from "unique" to "popular".
It is true though that "great" works of art can still emerge from this post "mass" phase of any "art" form.

BUT

It will become more and more rare as time progresses for truly unique works of "art" inside of the "mass" collaborative to emerge and be excepted as truly exceptional.

2.

-The history of gaming clearly states that gaming started off as an ability for people to make money and for programmers to test the limits of their hardware, not "artistically" motivated.
-Arcades littered the corners in the 80's and led to the concept of "mass" production.
-As games made more money and "entertained" the "masses" it was built and added upon.
-Soon the home gaming system came into the universe.
-The same thing happened again.
-And Again.
-And AGAIN.
-Even the slightest hint that the game was popular lead to rehashes of it shoveled out.
-Movies were getting games left and right.
-It was easy money in the late 80's
-Then... came... the PLAYSTATION and N64
-These became a common place in many households.
-Much like favorite movie VHS's of the family
-This issue was that the whole family wasn't entertained.

3.

-As console technology in console gaming increased the amount of money poured into advertisment ramped up.
-"proper" commercials started to show up
-"story" became a name sake.
-But it still wasn't enough
-Microsoft jumped into the game. The saw the payoff in the "playstation" and needed desperately to have another money influx.
-thus began the era of "controlled gaming"

4.

- YOU SHOULD KNOW WHERE IM GOING-
- IN CASE YOU DONT.... TO BE CONTINUED

5.

- Now anything that even has the chance of defining the idea of "art" or "entertainment" or "excitement" is quickly swept up and bastardized by timelines and quotas.
- Indie games are just shit holes of great ideas that fall short
- Being engaged in a game will inevitably lead you to 5 hours of cut scenes and a press "x" to win finish so the so called " artistic vision" is achieved.

6.

FUCK ME.
This is isnt gaming. This is Entertainment. Since when did I have to watch my character finish the level. Since when could I just not finish it my fucking self.
GAMING
IS
DEAD.
And its been dead awhile.
We are living in a time of "FAKE" art passed off as "GAMES"

FINALE.

So... what do you believe?

Are you playing a "mass" produced piece of "art"? or are you playing a money making "game"? or is the idea of user control still alive and well? THIS IDEA THAT THEIR ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT DON'T JUST WANT TO ENTERTAIN, BUT MAKE YOU ESCAPE REALITY AND INTERACT IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT WAY.

Tell me what you BELIEVE!!!

[editline]11th June 2014[/editline]

I enjoy that people think im "dumb" but id like to know why instead of just hitting that little button haha

[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Copypaste OP - Dumb rant either way." - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[Trekintosh]

Are you PUI? This is pretty ranty and out there.

[King of Limbs]

What does PUI mean?

Im honestly just saying what i think.

I dont think gaming is "art" or "entertainment".

I feel its become bastardized by the idea of success and there hasn't been a "good" game in the last 5 years.

[Sitkero]

[QUOTE=King of Limbs;45070273]What does PUI mean?

Im honestly just saying what i think.

I dont think gaming is "art" or "entertainment".

I feel its become bastardized by the idea of success and there hasn't been a "good" game in the last 5 years.[/QUOTE]

[B]P[/B]osting [B]U[/B]nder the [B]I[/B]nfluence

He's asking if you are intoxicated

[Robber]

I'm not sure if you even had a point, but is it that there are no good games being released (anymore)? Because that's absolutely not true in any way you could possibly interpret that.

Also, if a game is not "entertainment" then it's a really bad game, isn't it?

[Mellowbloom]

you're wrong

[King of Limbs]

[QUOTE=Sitkero;45070285][B]P[/B]osting [B]U[/B]nder the [B]I[/B]nfluence

He's asking if you are intoxicated[/QUOTE]

Im PUI on passion for what I Beleive!

[derpmeifter]

[QUOTE=King of Limbs;45070273]I dont think gaming is "entertainment".[/QUOTE]

huh

[Conn92]

You wrote so many words and still managed to say nothing

Okay so you don't think games are an art, that's fine, very subjective point to make and I'm not going to bother with that because I don't even really know what I think on that. What I don't understand is the whole "GAMING IS DEAD" thing... Why? Is it dead because it's not an art? Is it dead because it's a successful and booming industry? Is it dead because you don't like the games that are available?

You haven't really said why it's dead. All you have said with this incoherent rant is that companies make money from making games and that the games they makes suck as a result which is just blatantly untrue. There are plenty of good games on the market right now, indie or otherwise. Of course there are piles and piles of shitty games too. This happens with any form of entertainment that is consumed by the masses.

I feel like your post lacks direction and structure and if you want people to take you seriously you should probably fix that

[DoomMarine23]

Games, Entertainment, and Art do not exist in any natural world sense or objectiveness, sans the psychological enrichment and enjoyment.

To put that into layman's terms for you.

It is subjective, art itself does not exist. It it something that humans have created and just "is". Not only is the term thrown around wildly for different things but quite frankly it really doesn't matter. Assuming we mean the word "art" to define something meaningful to you, I will give you a simple life lesson.

Find meaning in the things you do and things you enjoy, find enrichment and value from which you have, Do not mindless consume. The most mindless of games such as Doom will always be "art" to me, for the motivation and inspiration they gave me as a young child, the experiences they left me with, the impact they had on gaming as a culture and business and the simple fact that it is continuing to be not only an inspiration but also open canvas for people to create new and innovative experiences.

That to me, beautiful. Give things a chance and listen to their meaning, and if something is an open canvas then produce your own. Stop consuming.

[slayer20]

[QUOTE=King of Limbs;45070293]Im PUI on passion for what I Beleive![/QUOTE]

You heard 'em boys, lock him up

[Bridger]

All I'm getting from this is that you don't like cut scenes and quick time button events.

[SwizzChees]

You can't really have the right to declare something isn't art. at the same you can't declare something art. There's no judge or any authority to have the right on declaring this. As soon as a individual or a collective finds itself touched or moved by beauty or controversy it can be art. Gaming is no exception.

[Wingz]

a painting is liquid on a canvas
for it to be art, the viewing subject gives it meaning
video games is same way
at the core, they are code and polygons
but in the eyes of the beholder
they can be more

[DoomMarine23]

[QUOTE=Wingz;45070389]a painting is liquid on a canvas
for it to be art, the viewing subject gives it meaning
video games is same way
at the core, they are code and polygons
but in the eyes of the beholder
they can be more[/QUOTE]

That's a fancy way of putting it. I like it

[Bridger]

[QUOTE=Wingz;45070389]a painting is liquid on a canvas
for it to be art, the viewing subject gives it meaning
video games is same way
at the core, they are code and polygons
but in the eyes of the beholder
they can be more[/QUOTE]

Oddly your post and avatar go together really well.

Very wise words.

[StrawberryClock]

Smells like the OP is only seeking attention. I'd advise not posting anything else and just letting this thread fall into oblivion.

I mean, if it's not obvious enough that the OP puts the rules in his post in an attempt to legitimize this thread somehow.

Of course, people are just going to ignore my warning anyway.

[Lexi]

This sounds like something a Jehovah's Witness would come to my door to ramble about, before I slam the door in his face.

[Sevgi]

did you post this on /v/ as well or did you get it from there?

[IMG]http://puu.sh/9oEtN/645738ef7d.png[/IMG]
[URL]http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/247703637/gaming-is-dead[/URL]

[hamsterjuice]

why can't we get great games anymore like bad dudes and fester's quest

[Janus Vesta]

[QUOTE=Hamsterjuice;45070472]why can't we get great games anymore like bad dudes and fester's quest[/QUOTE]

Don't knock old games man. Custer's Revenge defined a generation!

[Squeegy Mackoy]

I don't think this is worth an eloquent response so I'll just say:

You're dumb and wrong.

[Tosti]

What an mess. Nothing is defined and there are no references. If you are writing an assert at least use some decent argumentation. There is no ground for discussion.

Actually, I think you're just stirring shit up and I fell right into it.

Look at you making my post count go up again, get out.

[MyAlt91]

[QUOTE=King of Limbs;45070273][URL="http://www.rockstargames.com/IV/"]and[/URL] [URL="http://www.rockstargames.com/V/restricted_content/restricted_content_agegated/ref?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockstargames.com%2FV%2F&hash=efbbd75c6ccf8845ad023bf548a66936"]there[/URL] [URL="http://www.elderscrolls.com/skyrim"]hasn't[/URL] [URL="http://far-cry.ubi.com/fc-portal/nl-nl/home/"]been[/URL] [URL="http://community.batmanarkhamcity.com/"]a[/URL] [URL="http://fractgame.com/"]"good"[/URL] [URL="http://www.thinkwithportals.com/"]game[/URL] [URL="http://www.forzamotorsport.net/en-us/"]in[/URL] [URL="http://www.arma3.com/"]the[/URL] [URL="http://playdead.com/"]last[/URL] [URL="http://www.hotlinemiami.com/"]5[/URL] [URL="http://assassinscreed.ubi.com/nl-nl/home/"]years.[/URL][/QUOTE]

Yeah, I can't help but agree.

[Skelosk]

Wow, the OP was really afraid of being banned for a pointless thread

[Ashes]

[QUOTE=Wingz;45070389]a painting is liquid on a canvas
for it to be art, the viewing subject gives it meaning
video games is same way
at the core, they are code and polygons
but in the eyes of the beholder
they can be more[/QUOTE]

Fuck Sensai , that brought a tear to my eye

[Rayboy1995]

I'm going to use a recent game as an example of art.
[video=youtube;MP8q5F6dFqQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP8q5F6dFqQ[/video]

If this isn't art of some kind, then I really don't know what is.

[xalener]

I actually kinda believe that a game (at least a less unified AAA title with 50+devs) is OK to deem as "not art" because there's no longer a central idea everyone is working towards. The game of telephone becomes so long after a certain point that it's really easy to lose direction. That's where they cross into being exhibitions of many works of art, imo.

For instance, Journey is art and COD is a museum.

[t h e]

[QUOTE=xalener;45071087]I actually kinda believe that a game (at least a less unified AAA title with 50+devs) is OK to deem as "not art" because there's no longer a central idea everyone is working towards. The game of telephone becomes so long after a certain point that it's really easy to lose direction. That's where they cross into being exhibitions of many works of art, imo.

For instance, Journey is art and COD is a museum.[/QUOTE]

Arguable. One could consider Journey a museum and CoD art

I'm not sure how you can have a criteria for art based off budget and amount of developers, though

[Motorsheep]

[QUOTE=King of Limbs;45070194]
It is true though that "great" works of art can still emerge from this post "mass" phase of any "art" form.

BUT

It will become more and more rare as time progresses for truly unique works of "art" inside of the "mass" collaborative to emerge and be excepted as truly exceptional.

[/quote]
Apart from all those incredibly successful crowdfunding campaigns by indie devs with great ideas.
Also, *accepted, not excepted.

[quote]
2.

-The history of gaming clearly states that gaming started off as an ability for people to make money and for programmers to test the limits of their hardware, not "artistically" motivated.
[/quote]
What is your point? "Games cannot be art because they didn't start out as an art form"?

[quote]
-Arcades littered the corners in the 80's and led to the concept of "mass" production.
-As games made more money and "entertained" the "masses" it was built and added upon.
-Soon the home gaming system came into the universe.
-The same thing happened again.
-And Again.
-And AGAIN.
-Even the slightest hint that the game was popular lead to rehashes of it shoveled out.
-Movies were getting games left and right.
-It was easy money in the late 80's
-Then... came... the PLAYSTATION and N64
-These became a common place in many households.
-Much like favorite movie VHS's of the family
[/quote]
Yes, that is what happened. Stating what happened doesn't help build your case, because it has nothing to do with your claim that
[quote]-This issue was that the whole family wasn't entertained.[/quote]

You're not backing your arguments up with anything. You're mostly just stating a few (not very precisely phrased) facts about the gaming industry, interspersed with a few unfounded claims.

[quote]

- Now anything that even has the chance of defining the idea of "art" or "entertainment" or "excitement" is quickly swept up and bastardized by timelines and quotas.
[/quote]
Timelines and quotas are a problem indeed, but that doesn't mean that no good or entertaining or artful games are produced anymore. A majority of all products in this world are shit because a majority of all people in any given job are shit at their job. Games are no exception, they are just like any other industry. If that means that gaming is dead, then so are fashion, music, movies, furniture, architecture, cars, motorcycles, anything.

[quote]
- Indie games are just shit holes of great ideas that fall short
[/quote]
Your brain is a shit hole.
Sorry, but I can't help myself anymore at this point.
Dwarf Fortress? Mount & Blade? FTL? Gunpoint? Kerbal Space Program? Come on! If anything, indie games are better today than they ever were.

[quote]
- Being engaged in a game will inevitably lead you to 5 hours of cut scenes and a press "x" to win finish so the so called " artistic vision" is achieved.
[/quote]
Exaggerations don't help drive your point home. You're obviously disappointed with one game. Go ahead and talk about it. But stop this generalized bullshit. Yes, games have become easier. But you have no idea how much money I wasted on shit games in the 80's and 90's. Granted, those games had no cutscenes and quicktime events. But they had shit controls, terrible difficulty curves, shit interfaces, repetitive and boring gameplay, etc. etc. There have been shit games ever since the first computer game that was a financial success, because people have been trying to board that train and make some easy money ever since. It's not a recent phenomenon.

So either games were a stillbirth and have always been dead, or your view of the past is distorted.

[quote] THIS IDEA THAT THEIR ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT DON'T JUST WANT TO ENTERTAIN, BUT MAKE YOU ESCAPE REALITY AND INTERACT IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT WAY.
[/quote]

[editline]11th June 2014[/editline]

Where is the rest of my post?

[editline]11th June 2014[/editline]

I was saying: As we grow up, it becomes increasingly difficult to immerse ourselves in our fantasies. Also, the more we get used to things, the less exciting they become.

Games were new when we were young. Now they aren't.

Also, games were so simple when we were young that we always had to imagine stuff in order to make them complete. (at least if you played the games of the 80's and 90's).
Today we (can) expect everything to be represented inside the game world. If anything's amiss, we don't imagine it being there. We blame the game for not presenting it to us.