The Intrusion of White Families Into Bilingual Schools - Sensationalist Headlines

[URL="https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/12/the-middle-class-takeover-of-bilingual-schools/549278/"]source[/URL] [QUOTE]Stephanie Lugardo’s second-grade classroom at Academia Antonia Alonso in Wilmington, Delaware, is bubbling. Students chatter with one another as they work, smiling and joking and wiggling in and out of their chairs. Sure—it’s an elementary-school classroom. It’s expected to exude the earnest joy of children growing into themselves. But this one is different. Smiles break out on an array of faces, and the chatter spills out in English [I]and [/I]Spanish. This is an incarnation of a new American pluralism, one of the latest iterations of Walt Whitman’s “teeming nation of nations” flowering in “their curiosity and welcome of novelty.” Downstairs, in a kindergarten class, an African American student exclaims to her friend, “I know how to say that [I]in Spanish[/I]!” José Aviles, the head of Academia Antonia Alonso, describes the school as a sort of multicultural nirvana. “We tell parents, ‘Your kid is going to be surrounded by Latino kids, white kids, African American kids—we offer everyone the same education, the same quality, the same love,’” he told me. Dual-immersion classrooms aren’t just joyful to watch. They’re also ever more important to understand as their approach grows in popularity across the country. But there are some indications that multilingual schools’ increasing appeal is inadvertently undermining the original purpose for the model.[/QUOTE]

It always seems weird to me that there are people out there who see stories like this as a bad thing.

[QUOTE=DinoJesus;53019820]It always seems weird to me that there are people out there who see stories like this as a bad thing.[/QUOTE] How can someone be upset they speak multiple languages and aren't worried about skin colour

Back in ye olde days (16th-19th centuries) it was common for anyone willing to do anything scientific, or something that required any significant amount of reading, they would know a multitude of languages. Since they couldn’t wait for that new medical text to get translated into, say, Dutch, it was just easier to learn Arabic/Greek/Latin etc I do think the prevalence of translated works made learning new languages less interesting for people just about anywhere. Why speak a different language when you have your own already?

"Intrusion"

Growing up in a bilingual country makes these stories look so weird

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53019835]I do think the prevalence of translated works made learning new languages less interesting for people just about anywhere. Why speak a different language when you have your own already?[/QUOTE] Because the translation might be utter crap, and you're missing on tons of content Because the translators did a good job, but some stuff only works in the original language, so they had to be chopped Because the translation might be good, but you heard that the trnaslation of another language is even better, and you want to see if its true Because the stuff you want to see translated isn't getting an official release in your country, so you either wait for a fan translation or you become the fan translator Just because a work is available in your language, it doesn't means that people will use only that version.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53019829]How can someone be upset they speak multiple languages and aren't worried about skin colour[/QUOTE] Clearly you have not heard of french Canadians and how in a few neighborhoods in Quebec if your caught speaking english you'll get your teeth kicked in, regardless of your skin color.

[QUOTE=Unit-05;53019932]Clearly you have not heard of french Canadians and how in a few neighborhoods in Quebec if your caught speaking english you'll get your teeth kicked in, regardless of your skin color.[/QUOTE] French Canada is a weird bit of history. They often feel culturally and politically under-represented, and don't feel part of the "canadian" experience some times. I haven't heard of shit like that, and have some first hand experiences with the generosity of the quebecois but instances of violence exist in pretty much every segment of anything you look at.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53019835]Back in ye olde days (16th-19th centuries) it was common for anyone willing to do anything scientific, or something that required any significant amount of reading, they would know a multitude of languages. Since they couldn’t wait for that new medical text to get translated into, say, Dutch, it was just easier to learn Arabic/Greek/Latin etc I do think the prevalence of translated works made learning new languages less interesting for people just about anywhere. Why speak a different language when you have your own already?[/QUOTE] i dont want to be rude but this is backwards - the second part especially. translated works democratized written information and moved didactic works away from latin into actually spoken languages in addition to dead languages, eg french superseding it. presses moved people to publish works in their own dialects (dante?) and begin to build national vocabularies. translation expanded literacy within and without languages. the age of presses and publishing houses and translation made everything more interesting. also the centuries you quote are kind of arbitrary and cover both a period where latin was the dominant common language and also where it was no longer truly instrumental at all.

[QUOTE=Unit-05;53019932]Clearly you have not heard of french Canadians and [B]how in a few neighborhoods in Quebec if your caught speaking english you'll get your teeth kicked in[/B], regardless of your skin color.[/QUOTE] Call me a shut-in but I've literally never heard of those being a thing here, at least not how you're describing them.

When I lived in Alberta I always heard there were parts of Quebec that were only French but I suppose that could be false.

[QUOTE=OvB;53020014]When I lived in Alberta I always heard there were parts of Quebec that were only French but I suppose that could be false.[/QUOTE] Quebec isn't officially bilingual so you can find alot of places that are strictly french

I'm very sad that I didn't grow up in a bilingual area. I feel like I missed out so much in my childhood. I don't blame these people at all.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53019835]I do think the prevalence of translated works made learning new languages less interesting for people just about anywhere. Why speak a different language when you have your own already?[/QUOTE] Ved du hvad, du har sku ret. At være tosproget er ubrugeligt i det 21. århundrede, fordi oversættelser og oversættelsesprogrammer er så tilgængelige for alle at der bogstaveligt talt ikke er noget formål i at tale andre sprog end det første man lærte som barn. Fra nu af vil jeg kun kommunikere på dansk, og hvis I har problemer med det, kan I jo bare se om min tekst findes oversat et eller andet sted. Jeg er dog nødt til at spørge - Det med at tosprogethed er unødvændigt; gælder det kun jer hvide amerikanere som er velsignet med Guds eget sprog, engelsk, som modersmål, eller har jeres spansktalende befolkning heller ingen fordel i at lære et andet sprog? [sp]No I won't because that's fucking stupid, and thinking knowing more than one language is somehow bad or useless is literally one of the dumbest, most regressive points I've seen on here for quite some while[/sp]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53019835]Why speak a different language when you have your own already?[/QUOTE] Spoken like a true monolingual. Other languages aren't ciphers for English. There's plenty of semantic meaning, as well as culture, contained in other languages that translations often completely miss out, even when they're translated well.

Knowing swedish as my first language and finnish (Finland is officially a bilingual country) and english, I am a first hand example why you're an idiot for not learning more languages. Only about 15% of the population speak swedish, but I can get along with just that in my home region. Knowing finnish opens up so much more possibilities for me in the job market, but also enables me to comfortably move around the country. During my travels to the US and the UK, I have met people whos first language is english, but their skills in it was worse than mine. Whats that about? Knowing more languages is only beneficial, knowledge is never a burden.

[QUOTE=Radley;53020281]During my travels to the US and the UK, I have met people whos first language is english, but their skills in it was worse than mine. Whats that about?[/QUOTE] Likely because the level they have is enough to get by and they don't have the deliberate effort put into learning it as a secondary+ language to make them want to improve.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53019835]Back in ye olde days (16th-19th centuries) it was common for anyone willing to do anything scientific, or something that required any significant amount of reading, they would know a multitude of languages. Since they couldn’t wait for that new medical text to get translated into, say, Dutch, it was just easier to learn Arabic/Greek/Latin etc I do think the prevalence of translated works made learning new languages less interesting for people just about anywhere. Why speak a different language when you have your own already?[/QUOTE] I realise that you might just be trying to explain [I]why[/I], and not put up a justification, but this whole thing is just so regressive - and honestly it scares me a little bit that you have arguably the most important country on Earth not care about its people learning other languages. I'm gonna hazard a guess and say that most Americans (who isn't bilingual by virtue of their parents) only know a second language - to the extent that they even know one - about as well as I speak German. And if there's something I regret, it's not getting better at German while I was still in school. As a speaker of a very minor language in the scheme of things, I can tell you that reading translations (even good ones) is no match for reading the original text. You're missing out.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;53020312]As a speaker of a very minor language in the scheme of things, I can tell you that reading translations (even good ones) is no match for reading the original text. You're missing out.[/QUOTE] Another problem is that the claim that most scholarly work is translated to any given language is just flat out not true. If you want to study any sort of subject limited to a particular nation, you better fuckin' know the language of that nation or you're limiting yourself to a good 10% of available literature. I'd sure as hell wager a guess that a good 90% of scientific writing about Danish history is available only in Danish, and if you're a monolingual American with an interest in Denmark, you're shit out of luck 'cause you're getting the few, far-between and dubious quality translations.

[QUOTE=Radley;53020281]Knowing swedish as my first language and finnish (Finland is officially a bilingual country) and english, I am a first hand example why you're an idiot for not learning more languages. Only about 15% of the population speak swedish, but I can get along with just that in my home region. Knowing finnish opens up so much more possibilities for me in the job market, but also enables me to comfortably move around the country. During my travels to the US and the UK, I have met people whos first language is english, but their skills in it was worse than mine. Whats that about? Knowing more languages is only beneficial, knowledge is never a burden.[/QUOTE] I'm an idiot because my high school failed to provide a decent language course for other languages and subsequently failed to engage 12 year old me, and hundreds of other 12 year olds who eventually all dropped the classes because it was boring, and now after 18 years straight of education, including 4 years at university, having a full time job, I find it hard to learn new languages We're all idiots, I'm an idiot, sorry for failing you Radley!

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;53020312] As a speaker of a very minor language in the scheme of things, I can tell you that reading translations (even good ones) is no match for reading the original text. You're missing out.[/QUOTE] The Danish translation of Harry Potter is way better than any other translation and even the original text! Checkmate Atheists!

[QUOTE=BlackPhoenix;53019887]Growing up in a bilingual country makes these stories look so weird[/QUOTE] I know, right? I know English, Hindi and my mothertongue, which is Malayalam (also a palindrome name, so woo :v:). Currently teaching myself French (first via Duolingo, then I'll enrol myself in classes once I've built up a vocab bank for more formal training) as a part of my own personal effort to integrate better into Canada as an immigrant. My sister in the US has placed my nieces is these things called Magnet schools or something (I still don't fully understand it) and they're doing a majority of their school work in a second language - one is doing it in German; the other, in French. This is aside from them [I]also[/I] knowing English, Hindi and Malayalam (being taught to them separately by my sister, so they get to enjoy Indian cultural stuff in the language it was written and they can also enjoy Indian media as well). I still remember the look of utter shock on a Quebecois guy's face here in Canada when they came visiting and the guy said something in French and my niece answered back in perfect French and they held a small conversation in French. He later remarked that she spoke like a native and it was adorable. :v: I think more people should definitely consider learning a second language of their choice, not out of necessity, but a personal desire. I remember reading somewhere that prior to WWII, a popular language spoken across America was Dutch, French and more importantly, German (which fell out of favour for obvious reasons). Now that the enmities are over, I feel it'd do a better job for those with Irish/Scottish/Germanic ancestry to reconnect with their heritage by learning the language. At least it beats claiming a fraction of your ancestry as a reason to be Irish for St. Paddy's day and behave like a drunk twat. :v:

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53019835]Back in ye olde days (16th-19th centuries) it was common for anyone willing to do anything scientific, or something that required any significant amount of reading, they would know a multitude of languages. Since they couldn’t wait for that new medical text to get translated into, say, Dutch, it was just easier to learn Arabic/Greek/Latin etc I do think the prevalence of translated works made learning new languages less interesting for people just about anywhere. Why speak a different language when you have your own already?[/QUOTE] Meanwhile, I learned a second language because of automatic soaking while playing games :v: Started out with a few dabs of spanish because I felt english would be a bit hard, and used it as a base to hop to english, which turned out to be much easier than spanish even. Kind of weird, since I'm portuguese and I guess I'd expect one to hold hands with the other. I should had went with something connected to languages and such in school. Its dope being able to talk a few languages, even if just for the hell of it.

Quadrilingual here Learning new languages is never harmful and can only benefit you, don't see why anybody would ever be against it I can see why native English speakers would have trouble with it though, as English is likely one of the "easiest" languages out there, from my experience at least Currently learning Japanese as a fifth language because I'm a massive weeb and I wanna consume Japanese media without having to wait for translations

[QUOTE=NotMeh;53020405]I can see why native English speakers would have trouble with it though, as English is likely one of the "easiest" languages out there, from my experience at least [/QUOTE] The ease of English goes both ways. English is easy because it's a bastardisation of all the surrounding European languages; which means in reverse, you can relatively easily learn any of the surrounding European languages, aided by your knowledge of English. Learning non-indoeuropean languages is another case, though.

[QUOTE=Riller;53020175]Ved du hvad, du har sku ret. At være tosproget er ubrugeligt i det 21. århundrede, fordi oversættelser og oversættelsesprogrammer er så tilgængelige for alle at der bogstaveligt talt ikke er noget formål i at tale andre sprog end det første man lærte som barn. Fra nu af vil jeg kun kommunikere på dansk, og hvis I har problemer med det, kan I jo bare se om min tekst findes oversat et eller andet sted. Jeg er dog nødt til at spørge - Det med at tosprogethed er unødvændigt; gælder det kun jer hvide amerikanere som er velsignet med Guds eget sprog, engelsk, som modersmål, eller har jeres spansktalende befolkning heller ingen fordel i at lære et andet sprog? [sp]No I won't because that's fucking stupid, and thinking knowing more than one language is somehow bad or useless is literally one of the dumbest, most regressive points I've seen on here for quite some while[/sp][/QUOTE] I....never said it was bad? I was saying it was good and I proposed an idea that maybe it stagnated because it was easier to get works in ones language . Sorry, jeez [editline]1st January 2018[/editline] It was a hypothetical and not meaning to say don’t learn a language. Holy shot do you know how much easier life for everyone would be if they spoke 2-3 languages?

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53020424]I....never said it was bad? I was saying it was good and I proposed an idea that maybe it stagnated because it was easier to get works in ones language . Sorry, jeez [editline]1st January 2018[/editline] It was a hypothetical and not meaning to say don’t learn a language. Holy shot do you know how much easier life for everyone would be if they spoke 2-3 languages?[/QUOTE] That... Certainly wasn't the that came across in your post, but fair enough. I do guess the reaction was a bit disproportional, sorry.

What I was trying to say is that, unfounded theory, maybe the ease of access to monolingual and translated texts, as well as rapidly increasing populations in the 19th and 20th century, people just dropped learning other languages. I would love to learn a new language, maybe more than just one. It’s so incredibly important to be able to work in the modern world and seeing how language courses are treated by both administrators and students makes me feel really bad.

Tbh I’ve been desperate to learn Spanish because a lot of my family speaks it but my parents never found it prudent to teach myself or my sister how to speak it growing up. I’ve taken like 2 college level Spanish classes, regularly talk to family members who have tried to teach it to me and have even made an attempt at learning it via Duolingo but to no real avail. I’m not sure if it’s just something that’s really hard or if I’m so accustomed to English that deviating from it is too much of a challenge. Really sucks! I’m gonna keep trying as I get older but I do really wish I could speak more than just English.