[quote=ABC News]A Melbourne doctor who has been under investigation for his anti-vaccination stance has had his licence to practise suspended.
Dr John Piesse's practice in Mitcham was raided by the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency (AHPRA) and police officers last week following allegations he had helped families avoid compulsory childhood vaccinations.
He had agreed to stop practising temporarily while AHPRA investigated the matter.
But the Medical Board of Australia's Immediate Action Committee met on Thursday and decided to suspend his registration while the investigation into his practice continued.
"AHPRA can confirm that the Medical Board of Australia took interim action to suspend Dr Piesse's registration," an agency spokesperson said in a statement.
"The public register of practitioners has been updated to reflect this decision."
Dr Piesse has previously defended his actions, saying he has sought immunisation exemptions according to the law.[/quote]
[url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-15/anti-vaccination-gps-licence-suspended-following-raid-melbourne/8947954[/url]
Why was he anti-vax?
[QUOTE=NostalgicBird;52682467]Why was he anti-vax?[/QUOTE]
Honestly, does it matter? If you're a doctor and don't believe in medicine, you should not be allowed to be a doctor.
[QUOTE=NostalgicBird;52682467]Why was he anti-vax?[/QUOTE]
Some doctors are surprisingly unqualified -- thats why second opinions exist, because no two doctors will have the exact same beliefs over every single issue.
So much for the hippocratic oath. Good thing he got sacked, but I fear for those who are already running around without vaccinations. It's doubly worse because those families will go on to tell their own family/friends that their children shouldn't be vaccinated because their doctor said so.
He should be in prison for his blind disregard for human life and public safety.
"Dr John Piesse's practice in Mitcham was raided by the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency (AHPRA) and police officers last week following allegations he had helped families avoid compulsory childhood vaccinations."
Yeh, seems not cos of his opinions (although those opinions certainly made him think this was a good idea), but cos he was breaking the law.
I thought they suspended his driving license from the title.
This makes more sense. Good.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;52683635]"Dr John Piesse's practice in Mitcham was raided by the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency (AHPRA) and police officers last week following allegations he had helped families avoid compulsory childhood vaccinations."
Yeh, seems not cos of his opinions (although those opinions certainly made him think this was a good idea), but cos he was breaking the law.[/QUOTE]
I mean, if he doesn't give vaccines because of his opinions, and not giving vaccines is that got his license revoked, then by the transitive property, his opinions got his license revoked.
It's the classic "if A=B and A=C then B=C".
I wonder what his reasons were, I'd like to hear them.
[QUOTE=Faunze;52684389]I wonder what his reasons were, I'd like to hear them.[/QUOTE]
I really doubt you would, I know I wouldn't. Anti-vaxxers are complete morons and I couldn't bare 5 minutes of their slaver.
This man should be sent back to medical school and taught that vaccinations are what stop epidemics etc. Fucking Incredible he became a GP in the first place
[QUOTE=Riller;52682469]Honestly, does it matter? If you're a doctor and don't believe in medicine, you should not be allowed to be a doctor.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to become a spaceship designer one day
but I don't believe in going to space
[QUOTE=J!NX;52684757]I'm going to become a spaceship designer one day
but I don't believe in going to space[/QUOTE]
"Hi, I'm Dave and I make spaceships. Also, the moon landing was a hoax, WAKE UP SHEEPLE."
"FP's not an echo chamber"
You guys are being the ignorance you hate, saying he should goto prison for his beliefs without even hearing his reasoning. I am pro vaccinations and I fully believe in the science behind them and all, but doctors have been wrong before, it happens a lot, and blindly following what other people say and not even trying to hear a perspective besides your own is hypocritical.
[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;52682750]He should be in prison for his blind disregard for human life and public safety.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit guys, [I]Sensationalist Headlines[/I] is an ironic title. Don't go full-blown Fox News comment section with this blatant condemnation.
The doctor agreed to stop practising while they look into the situation, and they suspended his license just to be safe. He's made a case stating that his actions are legal, and that his practise with vaccines is in accordance to the new legislation.
[QUOTE]"There's no freedom of speech about vaccines. Anyone who takes a contrary view is attacked."[/QUOTE]
This is a [I]medical doctor[/I], of all people, who are coming up with these opinions. Medicine, and science in general, require an open mind, and controversial subjects should be met with quality discussion and careful consideration. You should at least let the man talk before saying his ass deserves to be thrown into a cell. It's not even specified what his motives are behind these actions. Does he think it's possible vaccines are behind autism? Is he just defending a patient's right to treatment? If it's another whacko doctor who buys into conspiracy theories, then yes, I agree this man should not be practising medicine, and any damage done should be met with consequences.
And before you blow up on me, I'm not on the opposition for vaccines. I look forward to mandatory vaccination. 100% agree a lot of "concerned parents" think vaccines are unsafe for reasons that have already been refuted time after time by extensive research. I'm here asking you to keep an open mind to the doctor's situation.
[QUOTE=tyanet;52684380]I mean, if he doesn't give vaccines because of his opinions, and not giving vaccines is that got his license revoked, then by the transitive property, his opinions got his license revoked.
It's the classic "if A=B and A=C then B=C".[/QUOTE]
Except legal issues are not algebra/arithmetic, they tend to be very specific.
[QUOTE=tyanet;52684380]I mean, if he doesn't give vaccines because of his opinions, and not giving vaccines is that got his license revoked, then by the transitive property, his opinions got his license revoked.
It's the classic "if A=B and A=C then B=C".[/QUOTE]
Having an opinion or idea is different than carrying out an action.
You can have the opinion/idea "If I drive on the shoulder of the highway to cut traffic, I'll get to work quicker". If the law forbids you to drive on the shoulder of the road when there is no emergency situation, you are going to face consequences.
His actions got his license suspended, not his opinion.
[QUOTE=polarbear.;52684854]Holy shit guys, [I]Sensationalist Headlines[/I] is an ironic title. Don't go full-blown Fox News comment section with this blatant condemnation.
The doctor agreed to stop practising while they look into the situation, and they suspended his license just to be safe. He's made a case stating that his actions are legal, and that his practise with vaccines is in accordance to the new legislation.
This is a [I]medical doctor[/I], of all people, who are coming up with these opinions. Medicine, and science in general, require an open mind, and controversial subjects should be met with quality discussion and careful consideration. You should at least let the man talk before saying his ass deserves to be thrown into a cell. It's not even specified what his motives are behind these actions. Does he think it's possible vaccines are behind autism? Is he just defending a patient's right to treatment? If it's another whacko doctor who buys into conspiracy theories, then yes, I agree this man should not be practising medicine, and any damage done should be met with consequences.
And before you blow up on me, I'm not on the opposition for vaccines. I look forward to mandatory vaccination. 100% agree a lot of "concerned parents" think vaccines are unsafe for reasons that have already been refuted time after time by extensive research. I'm here asking you to keep an open mind to the doctor's situation.[/QUOTE]
You don't "let the man talk" if "the man" is a doctor who is anti-vaccine.
In the same way you don't "let the man talk" if "the man" is an astronomer who is a flat earth geocentrist.
Or you don't "let the man talk" if "the man" is a climate scientist who denies man-made climate change.
Science isn't a completely open forum for any and all ideas. There's things that have been completely ruled out of consideration in every single context ever anywhere, except for pseudoscience forums and "ok but listen them out teach the controversy" idiots.
[QUOTE=Hilton;52684840]"FP's not an echo chamber"
You guys are being the ignorance you hate, saying he should goto prison for his beliefs without even hearing his reasoning.[/QUOTE]
Yes, how dare we think someone should go to prison for helping people avoid compulsory vaccinations. We should really consider the potentially useful viewpoint of vaccines being bad.
All these dickweed anti-vaxxers don't deserve a platform, they don't deserve an open viewpoint, they don't deserve your time and [I]especially[/I] not fucking doctors who should know better.
From the op:
[QUOTE]"There's no freedom of speech about vaccines. Anyone who takes a contrary view is attacked."[/QUOTE]
If you think standing back to critically examine something universally understood by science is a bad thing, then I guess you think no one should've listened to Galileo either, or the "witchcraft alchemists" who founded chemistry.
Science is all about breaking from convention, questioning everything, and being critical.
[editline]15th September 2017[/editline]
I disagree with the guy too, but no fucking topic in science should be taboo like this.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52685018]You don't "let the man talk" if "the man" is a doctor who is anti-vaccine.[/QUOTE]
My point is that it wasn't even stated what the doctor's motives are for helping people avoid vaccines. You sure as hell shouldn't be deciding "This man should go directly to prison for his actions" when you don't even know what the situation is, which is why I'm speaking out against another user's post. There's a reason his case is being currently investigated.
This is like arguments about a police brutality case that pops up in the news. Hardly any information about what happened is released, and people scream "PUT THAT COP IN JAIL!!". Is police brutality an awful thing, deserving of you being stripped of your authority as a cop? Yes. Are the police always wrong in these types of situations? No. We open an investigation into these issues, requiring parties to be unbiased on both sides so we can come to a proper conclusion.
[QUOTE] There's things that have been completely ruled out of consideration in every single context ever anywhere.[/QUOTE]
If the statistic is 1 in 1000 of police brutality cases result in the police being in the wrong, you still consider both positions and their points of view in a case. Last I checked, you have the right to a fair trial in your country. If you come to a court and make some absurd accusation, you are given a chance to explain yourself before being told "No, that's a crazy idea, let's not entertain it any further".
You sure as hell don't have an extremely open mind on a day-to-day basis where you stop and consider what the crazy people yelling shit on the street have to say, but when it comes to situations in law or medicine, you can't completely disregard every idea that sounds bogus. We're kind of taught to have a holistic approach to these situations.
[QUOTE]Science isn't a completely open forum for any and all ideas[/QUOTE]
Sure it is. [I]"Real science is about critically appraising the evidence for somebody else's position."[/I] We do this all the time to people who dwell on pseudoscience to disprove their theories.
Again, I'm not saying you sit down with everybody on the opposition with a crazy idea and try to have an intellectual conversation. Hell, I'm not here to argue about vaccines causing autism. I'm here advocating that the right thing to do is consider all sides of the story, and maybe hold back on the extreme decision-making before you receive the full story.
wow there's a gofundme going with over 100k donated to the fool [url]https://www.gofundme.com/istandwithdrpiesse[/url]
[QUOTE]Dr John Piesse is a doctor of the people. He doesn’t drive a Merc. He doesn’t take expensive skiing holidays. In fact, he has very little.

He’s also a busy doctor. He spends all of his time helping patients. In fact, it can take months on a waiting list, just to see him for the first time.
Many parents of vaccine-injured children (and parents of children with serious allergies) decide to wait for as long as it takes to see him, because they know he will listen and hear them out.

Dr Piesse is also a doctor who’s currently under investigation. Why? He supports the families of vaccine-injured children. It’s a compassionate thing to do, but certainly not a lucrative one. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;52685061]Yes, how dare we think someone should go to prison for helping people avoid compulsory vaccinations. We should really consider the potentially useful viewpoint of vaccines being bad.
All these dickweed anti-vaxxers don't deserve a platform, they don't deserve an open viewpoint, they don't deserve your time and [I]especially[/I] not fucking doctors who should know better.[/QUOTE]
Yes, anti-vaccine is an absurd viewpoint, and everyone here believes it does harm to our society. You're entitled to free speech in this country, and indeed it's [I]horrible[/I] when you use it to create a movement that hurts people. But stripping people of their speech isn't the right course of action by our democratic standards.
If it makes you feel any better - many doctors consider holistic approaches to medicine, whether they like it or not, due to the amount of patients these days using the internet for medical information. Many of them see the concern that patients (as well as docs with kids themselves) have about issues such as vaccines being harmful. I've met and talked to plenty of health care workers, including physicians, that believe you shouldn't have such a black-and-white approach to medicine. You do your best to consider all options.
[QUOTE=polarbear.;52684920]Having an opinion or idea is different than carrying out an action.
You can have the opinion/idea "If I drive on the shoulder of the highway to cut traffic, I'll get to work quicker". If the law forbids you to drive on the shoulder of the road when there is no emergency situation, you are going to face consequences.
His actions got his license suspended, not his opinion.[/QUOTE]
I feel like you guys are going way out of your way to differentiate his opinion (not to vax) from why he got in trouble (not vaxxing people). Opinions aren't always actions, but his actions were of opinion, what's not to understand here? It feels like trying to justify anti-vaxers as innocuous opinion-havers that are being threatened with arrest for thought crime, when we're talking about a medical professional who (even if he either wasn't responsible for performing vaccinations, or even performed them begrudgingly) should be held responsible if he was even simply spreading anti-medical-science rhetoric to people who entrust their (and their community's) health to him
[QUOTE=dai;52685170]I feel like you guys are going way out of your way to differentiate his opinion (not to vax) from why he got in trouble (not vaxxing people). Opinions aren't always actions, but his actions were of opinion, what's not to understand here
also that's a shit analogy[/QUOTE]
Absolutely, you're right. However, I think a few people posting didn't read the article. The guy is building a case claiming that he still acted under new legislation that brought mandatory vaccinations, which has the potential to make this a very interesting case.
What's not to understand, you ask? He hasn't given his reasoning behind the actions. I think there's more to consider in this story before people start launching ideas for him to go straight to prison. To be honest, there's probably a good chance he'll come out and say some dumb shit that has been refuted over and over by the scientific community. Nevertheless, situations like this in medicine or law shouldn't always have such a strong attack on the opposition. This is one of those times we should consider the whole story before making a concrete decision, which is what is happening in the investigation.
[QUOTE=polarbear.;52685152]Yes, anti-vaccine is an absurd viewpoint, and everyone here believes it does harm to our society. You're entitled to free speech in this country, and indeed it's [I]horrible[/I] when you use it to create a movement that hurts people. But stripping people of their speech isn't the right course of action by our democratic standards.
[/QUOTE]
Too bad we're not talking about just "stripping people's speech" based on a matter of "having an opinion" and "voicing said opinion". The guy is accused of fucking "circumvented laws" regarding legally mandated vaccines. Breaking the law makes you a criminal, and people who agree with said law would believe that you should be punished for it if/when you're found guilty, shocker.
It's not like I called for a lynch mob or anything, I actively expressed a fairly reasonable viewpoint on a punishment for what would be a clear violation of the law. But nah mate, it's all about "silencing the dissenting opinion", got me pegged.
Surely there should be a law in place that if a doctor is against vaccinations etc., he/she must refer their patient(s) to different doctors?
At this rate I think I would rather add to Australia's society than Germany'
[QUOTE=Steam-Pixie;52685881]Surely there should be a law in place that if a doctor is against vaccinations etc., he/she must refer their patient(s) to different doctors?[/QUOTE]
You should be fired if you have to refer people to different doctors because you refuse to do standard procedure
[QUOTE=Steam-Pixie;52685881]Surely there should be a law in place that if a doctor is against vaccinations etc., he/she must refer their patient(s) to different doctors?[/QUOTE]
There aren't very many legitimate reasons why a doctor can refuse to provide treatment, and being anti-vax isn't one of them. The few acceptable reasons include, but are not limited to, depending on the countries you're talking about, when care is no longer needed and the physician advises the patient on this within a reasonable timeframe before treatment ends, the patient exhibits delusional or dangerous behavior, is attempting to seek attention (such as Munchausen and MBP), and drug seekers. In some countries, this also covers the personal beliefs of a doctor clashing with the prospect of providing reasonable care to a patient, but only within reason and definitely not covering actual discrimination. Though, you're right in the sense they have to refer their patients to other doctors.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;52686748]There aren't very many legitimate reasons why a doctor can refuse to provide treatment, and being anti-vax isn't one of them. The few acceptable reasons include, but are not limited to, depending on the countries you're talking about, when care is no longer needed and the physician advises the patient on this within a reasonable timeframe before treatment ends, the patient exhibits delusional or dangerous behavior, is attempting to seek attention (such as Munchausen and MBP), and drug seekers. In some countries, this also covers the personal beliefs of a doctor clashing with the prospect of providing reasonable care to a patient, but only within reason and definitely not covering actual discrimination. Though, you're right in the sense they have to refer their patients to other doctors.[/QUOTE]
Then again I remember reading a few years ago that in the UK at least, there was a law set that if a doctor is against abortion or vaccines for religious reasons or whatever, they have to refer the patient to another doctor.
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