Hatred against Germans is increasing in Berlin, says city’s interior minister - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]Andreas Geisel, Berlin’s interior minister, said on Wednesday that hatred towards Germans was on the rise in the capital, but cautioned that it was still far from the norm. “I have heard that [reports of hatred against Germans]. It is not the norm but it is becoming more common - to keep quiet about it would be wrong,” Geisel told daily newspaper Tagesspiegel. “What can we do about it? It is clear that we need to intensify our efforts to integrate people. That includes German and ethics courses for refugees, optimally for all of them,” the Social Democrat added. The interior minister was responding to a long report published by Tagesspiegel on Tuesday which asked whether Berlin was becoming “a place of fear.” The newspaper reported on the individual experiences of various Berliners who had contacted the newspaper to argue that the city was becoming a place of “increased aggression and and an intensified feeling of fear. And this feeling has something to do with the arrival of refugees.” Tagesspiegel spoke to Berliners from several walks of life - including refugee helpers - who spoke of their growing sense of insecurity.[/QUOTE] Source: [url]https://www.thelocal.de/20180307/hatred-against-germans-is-increasing-in-berlin-says-citys-interior-minister[/url]

[quote]That includes German and ethics courses for refugees,[/quote] Why weren't they already doing this?

-snip

[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;53195872]Why weren't they already doing this?[/QUOTE] Technically they are, to my knowledge, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone had the brilliant idea to delay them until after the application is processed (which can take a long time).

What the "TheLocal" article doesn't mention from the original article is that the ACTUAL numbers and crime statistics are falling. His first sentence is [B][I]"the city has objectively become safer"[/I][/B] Later: [B][I]"The number of incidents did not rise"[/I][/B] It also doesn't mention that he says that this is often due to [B][I]no integration attempts for arabian families that came 25 or 30 years ago[/I][/B].

[QUOTE=Killuah;53195968] It also doesn't mention that he says that this is often due to [B][I]no integration attempts for arabian families that came 25 or 30 years ago[/I][/B].[/QUOTE] Maybe it's time for retroactive integration policies.

I would be happy nough if we just learned from the past mistakes

imho maximum refugee status of 3 years including language lessons, vacation against illnesses and such then for temporary period of 20 years without relief not working ? or not paying taxes ? (insurance/retirement funds) or committing crime against local laws ? if any of the question is yes then extradition back to home country

yes but we do not talk about 'those who integrate' that's crucial part

What the fuck is this sick 'hatred against germans' shit anyway? What, they're mad that germans took them in, offered them shelter, and even subsidize their lifestyles?

[QUOTE=Dwarden;53196197]imho maximum refugee status of 3 years including language lessons, vacation against illnesses and such then for temporary period of 20 years without relief not working ? or not paying taxes ? (insurance/retirement funds) or committing crime against local laws ? if any of the question is yes then extradition back to home country[/QUOTE] I'm not against the idea of both helping and asking more of people who come to European countries, but this kind of box thinking is just dumb. Who says you can't be a refugee for more than three years? The Syrian civil war has been lasting for 7 years now - and how about people who are prosecuted in their home countries because of their political, religious or sexual (or otherwise) identity? And "not working"? For how long? For what reason? And which crimes?

[QUOTE=Dwarden;53196197]imho maximum refugee status of 3 years including language lessons, vacation against illnesses and such then for temporary period of 20 years without relief not working ? or not paying taxes ? (insurance/retirement funds) or committing crime against local laws ? if any of the question is yes then extradition back to home country[/QUOTE] What's with children? What if the home country doesn't exist anymore? And it seems like you didn't read the thread but most of the problems are caused by Arab immigrants that were more than welcome 25 to 30 years ago and their children, so I am not really sure why you are talking about refugees here?

[QUOTE=St33m;53196247]What the fuck is this sick 'hatred against germans' shit anyway? What, they're mad that germans took them in, offered them shelter, and even subsidize their lifestyles?[/QUOTE] It's not really that simple. From many migrants' perspectives, Germany was legally obligated and therefore not exactly happy about taking them in. Viewing everything from that light, any perceived shortages in housing quality or food and lack of effort to help them integrate makes them feel worse about it.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53196360]It's not really that simple. From many migrants' perspectives, Germany was legally obligated and therefore not exactly happy about taking them in. Viewing everything from that light, any perceived shortages in housing quality or food and lack of effort to help them integrate makes them feel worse about it.[/QUOTE] Again. This is not directly abut the refugee's. Here is an article from 2009 about increasing "hatred against Germany": [url]http://www.taz.de/!696723/[/url] Here is a forum from 2010: [url]http://www.spin.de/forum/msg-archive/16/2010/10/316433[/url] Here is a news article from 2010: [url]http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/integration/rassismus-das-schweigen-der-schulen-ueber-deutschenfeindlichkeit-11056390.html[/url] this is all long before the wave of refugees. It is kids of legal immigrants that never received any immigration efforts in the 80's and 90's, hence why most of the complaints are from [I]schools[/I]

i hated them as well when i was there... although not for the same reason as the refugees

[QUOTE=Anteep;53196398]i hated them as well when i was there... although not for the same reason as the refugees[/QUOTE] Care to explain why?

We smell.

[QUOTE=Killuah;53196346]What's with children? What if the home country doesn't exist anymore? And it seems like you didn't read the thread but most of the problems are caused by Arab immigrants that were more than welcome 25 to 30 years ago and their children, so I am not really sure why you are talking about refugees here?[/QUOTE] the wounds are reopened with each new migration wave because of the lack of rules or effective (morally) integration procedure children have future, if they can learn they can integrate way better than adults if the former home country cease to exist then if i'm not mistaken the refugee can become citizen also countries can handle only 'certain level' of migration before crumbling down the social system, resources or relationship inbetween people aren't limitless

[QUOTE=Dwarden;53196872]the wounds are reopened with each new migration wave because of the lack of rules or effective (morally) integration procedure children have future, if they can learn they can integrate way better than adults if the former home country cease to exist then if i'm not mistaken the refugee can become citizen also countries can handle only 'certain level' of migration before crumbling down the social system, resources or relationship inbetween people aren't limitless[/QUOTE] What is that level for one of the richest countries in the world aka Germany? Do you want to imply something when you say [quote]the social system, resources or relationship inbetween people aren't limitless[/quote] or are you just gonna drop it here ? What do you wanna say with that? Or actually, what do you NOT want to actually spell out?

My only issue with germans is all the ones I've met are "too good" : eating veggies, riding bikes, recycling, leaving windows open in their house to get fresh air, working hard. Makes me feel inferior And when they get drunk they have make carnival costumes or make world famous beer festivals. It's too much why can't they just get wasted on carling like a brit

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;53197986]I didn’t know being born outside of the country means you are a lower order of human being who has to serve the interest of the state to not be considered garbage that has to be dumped elsewhere.[/QUOTE] It is the obligation of the migrant to show that he is qualified to find work in the country he wants to live in, not the state to provide for everyone that enters within its borders. It's almost like refugee status is temporary or something

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;53197986]I didn’t know being born outside of the country means you are a lower order of human being who has to serve the interest of the state to not be considered garbage that has to be dumped elsewhere.[/QUOTE] Humanitarianism has to be balanced by pragmatism Especially in light of the fact we are moving towards a world with greater free movement and with lagging growth issues/demographic crisis in the first world, which means not all refugees are actually refugees. Worse, constant flows mixed with cultural distance creates the problem of ghettoization which is where multicultural or assimilation projects fail Next thing you know when in the midst of middle class decline, growth of money's influence on politics, and loss of faith in media, you have a nationalist backlash

[QUOTE=Conscript;53198080]Humanitarianism has to be balanced by pragmatism Especially in light of the fact we are moving towards a world with greater free movement and with lagging growth issues/demographic crisis in the first world, which means not all refugees are actually refugees. Worse, constant flows mixed with cultural distance creates the problem of ghettoization which is where multicultural or assimilation projects fail Next thing you know when in the midst of middle class decline, growth of money's influence on politics, and loss of faith in media, you have a nationalist backlash[/QUOTE] I believe you're right that it does need balancing but I believe we're not at that tipping point yet. Furthermore I think there are steps we can taken to tackle those other issues (middle class decline and loss of faith in institutions) along with steps which can be taken to avoid/mitigate "ghettoization". These steps are more important. We shouldn't forsake people for the fear that helping them will bring out the worse aspects of our own culture. One final point: people are coming anyway, you can't easily stop people migrating so rather than pretending we can stop them we should take steps to reduce their need for coming here (by helping developing countries) and reduce the impact of them being here (by helping them integrate, helping them avoid crime and sensibly distributing them rather than putting them all in 1 place).

[QUOTE=Niklas;53198015]It is the obligation of the migrant to show that he is qualified to find work in the country he wants to live in, not the state to provide for everyone that enters within its borders. It's almost like refugee status is temporary or something[/QUOTE] but what happens to everyone who doesn't bring that economic benefit? they have to go [I]somewhere[/I]. we can't have all our unqualified people just sitting in the one country that took them in, that's literally just another humanitarian crisis.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;53198117]I believe you're right that it does need balancing but I believe we're not at that tipping point yet. Furthermore I think there are steps we can taken to tackle those other issues (middle class decline and loss of faith in institutions) along with steps which can be taken to avoid/mitigate "ghettoization". These steps are more important. We shouldn't forsake people for the fear that helping them will bring out the worse aspects of our own culture. One final point: people are coming anyway, you can't easily stop people migrating so rather than pretending we can stop them we should take steps to reduce their need for coming here (by helping developing countries) and reduce the impact of them being here (by helping them integrate, helping them avoid crime and sensibly distributing them rather than putting them all in 1 place).[/QUOTE] We will see. For now, the growth of what is basically technocracy or oligarchy in liberal democracies with growing class divides mixed in with diversifying but un-integrated populations, especially in parallel 'world city' societies that reflect on a growing city-countryside divide, is undoubtedly contributing to a [url=https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2018/01/daily-chart-21]democratic recession[/url]. Unequal and multicultural societies have never been democratic and transparent in history, it begets managerial states to handle social divisions. Liberal-democracies have always struggled with elitism, and their health depends on the middle class and its civic identity that crosses divisions and fosters social trust. Nationalist backlash to the mentioned trends will further this recession If we do not deal with the migration issue properly, and instead cling to ideology out of a need to restore growth rates/demographically sustain the welfare state and understandably satisfy civilizational soul searching after the world wars, the burst of the political bubble that is the liberal end of history will be even worse I think we need to realize that with globalization going into overdrive following the 80s or collapse of communism, liberalism might have bitten off more than it can chew in terms of a 21st century vision. The changes are so rapid the generation gaps are incredible and we're in a state of culture war basically. Technology atomizing us isn't helping either, and the family isn't doing well. We have many social ills associated with this necessary economic transition, and failure to liberalize Russia is really an issue too. Information war and the return of ideological battles has rendered the internet into being anything but what it was supposed to be, fostering of an educated democratic citizenry. There's a lot of reasons to be pessimistic about whether we can take these steps you mention in time

[QUOTE=Conscript;53198129]We will see. For now, the growth of technocracy and oligarchy in liberal democracies with growing class divides mixed in with diversifying but un-integrated populations, especially in parallel 'world city' societies that reflect on a growing city-countryside divide, is undoubtedly contributing to a [url=https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2018/01/daily-chart-21]democratic recession[/url]. Unequal and multicultural societies have never been democratic and transparent in history. Nationalist backlash to the mentioned trends will further this recession[/quote] We can solve those issues too, they need solving. To me inequality and wage stagnation are the major issues, it affects me far more than a few foreigners coming in. Worth noting that it's generally people in areas without foreigners which are more hostile toward immigration. You talk about this "diversifying and un-integrated" thing, we already had that for decades, in manchester (my local city where I used to live) we have china town, we have "the curry mile" from immigration decades ago, why is this suddenly a big issue? It's been happening for years, why should we suddenly change? because of inequality? wouldn't it be better to address inequality? Your views also seem to assume you can just stop people coming, I'm not convinced thats the case. Also be mindful that past attempts to reduce immigration/immigrations has fostered aggression toward foreigners (citizen or otherwise) living here. Remember that "racist bus" thing in the UK telling Bulgarians and Romanians to go home? At the time I was dating a bulgarian and hung around with both groups as a result, they were horrified by it, people telling them to go home people calling them gypsies - these are people we want to keep, educated, middle class, hard working and despicable anti immigration tactics are making them feel unwanted. I used to chat to a guy on the train, a muslim guy (born in uk) from the stuff recently he's been abused, random people threatening him and insulting him - thats wrong as hell, imo that is the bigger issue good people being demonised for their birth. [quote] If we do not deal with the migration issue properly, and instead cling to ideology out of a need to restore growth rates/demographically sustain the welfare state and understandably satisfy civilizational soul searching after the world wars, the burst of the political bubble that is the liberal end of history will be even worse[/QUOTE] Again assuming that immigration can just be stopped, imo better to mitigate the impact it has and help out the countries people are coming from. Seems to me that welfare is used as a reason to not take immigrants, but the same people who use that argument are often the ones opposed to welfare too. That's a general observation not specific to you.