Coffee Farmer in Hawaii Loses Deportation Battle, Returns to Mexico - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]A coffee farmer in Hawaii who appealed his deportation order in federal court was forced to leave the island late Friday, after a last-ditch effort to remain with his wife and children was denied, according to NBC-affiliate KNHL. Andres Magana Ortiz said goodbye to his wife and his three children at Kona International Airport late Friday after the Department of Homeland Security rejected his lawyer’s petition to grant him legal status because he is married to a U.S. citizen, KNHL said.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coffee-farmer-hawaii-loses-deportation-battle-returns-mexico-n780981[/URL] On a personal note, I think there needs to be a serious national conversation in the United States not just to address the issue of illegal immigration, but the inherent craptastic bureaucracy that legal immigration is mired in. The guy in the article of working on US citizenship for [B][I]3 decades[/I][/B], which is honestly a shame and a waste of public resources if it hadn't been resolved by that point.

[QUOTE=snookypookums;52452645][URL]http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coffee-farmer-hawaii-loses-deportation-battle-returns-mexico-n780981[/URL] On a personal note, I think there needs to be a serious national conversation in the United States not just to address the issue of illegal immigration, but the inherent craptastic bureaucracy that legal immigration is mired in. The guy in the article of working on US citizenship for [B][I]3 decades[/I][/B], which is honestly a shame and a waste of public resources if it hadn't been resolved by that point.[/QUOTE] The issue with deportation is if they aren't strict, then at that point the argument for anyone to stay can be made, it may be a waste of public resources, but its a necessity. Can't do much with that amount of bureaucracy. Yes, it requires reform, but above that, not much can be done apart from trying to get him back into the country earlier than 10 years. The government should be keeping on contact with these people and reminding them to become citizens/whatever.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;52452689]The issue with deportation is if they aren't strict, then at that point the argument for anyone to stay can be made, it may be a waste of public resources, but its a necessity. Can't do much with that amount of bureaucracy. Yes, it requires reform, but above that, not much can be done apart from trying to get him back into the country earlier than 10 years. The government should be keeping on contact with these people and reminding them to become citizens/whatever.[/QUOTE] Agreed. Who cares if it would have saved time and money just granting him legal status now, instead of worrying about bringing him back? He only married a US citizen, raised children on American soil, and created a small business. Most ordinary people would see deportation after 30 years to be a frivolous and somewhat cruel use of government time and money, but the rule are rules. If we are going to keep out all the rapists and murderers that Mexico sends us then, well, you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette right? This is a great victory not only for the Trump administration and DHS, but also the American people.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;52452689]The issue with deportation is if they aren't strict, then at that point the argument for anyone to stay can be made, it may be a waste of public resources, but its a necessity. Can't do much with that amount of bureaucracy. Yes, it requires reform, but above that, not much can be done apart from trying to get him back into the country earlier than 10 years. The government should be keeping on contact with these people and reminding them to become citizens/whatever.[/QUOTE] This is based on a broken belief that having these people come and stay hurts us in some way. Truth is, our country would crumble without them. They do jobs even our poor won't do. They're basically the backbone of our society. It's incredibly disgusting they get treated so poorly. But then, historically, that's always been the case. Mexicans have been our post-slavery slaves since before we took half their country, or imported millions of them to work on our railroads or in our fields before deporting them a handful of terms later. They got the short end of the stick so we could pursue imperialism when imperialism was dying, and they still get that end so we can stay afloat. I don't think anyone would oppose more lax immigration restrictions if they did any research into the history of North American relations, unless they had a purely political incentive to do so, or completely lacked empathy. As for the deportation rhetoric, divorced from the action, it seems abundantly clear that it's a play. If you threaten these people with deportation, even if you're not deporting them, they disappear. It prevents them from being active in the political sphere, from sticking up for themselves. It subjugates them even further, because they lose all civil protection. Dehumanizes them. And, in cases like this, sometimes you need a little show of force to maintain that. Deportation is as much a threat against their voice as it is their livelihood, because their voice is [I]dangerous[/I].

I thought marrying a US citizen gives you a permanent residence permit [editline]10th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Boilrig;52452689]Can't do much with that amount of bureaucracy. Yes, it requires reform, but above that, not much can be done apart from trying to get him back into the country earlier than 10 years.[/QUOTE] Splitting up a family for 10 years over bureaucracy, fucking hell. There must be something that can be done to help them

[QUOTE=Boilrig;52452689]The issue with deportation is if they aren't strict, then at that point the argument for anyone to stay can be made, it may be a waste of public resources, but its a necessity. Can't do much with that amount of bureaucracy. Yes, it requires reform, but above that, not much can be done apart from trying to get him back into the country earlier than 10 years. The government should be keeping on contact with these people and reminding them to become citizens/whatever.[/QUOTE] He was doing just fine here for 28 years, including his entire adult life. He had a business, he had a family, he had friends and was liked in his community. He built a life "the American way", just as Republicans love to preach about. When he returns to Mexico he'll be homeless, has no family there, he has no property there, he has no ties of any sort. To him it's less of a return and more of an exile, ICE is sending him to exile in Mexico and does not give a damn what happens.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52452785]This is a great victory not only for the Trump administration and DHS, but also the American people.[/QUOTE] The deportation proceedings started under Obama's administration. This article chose to omit that bit of info but you can read it in the court docs [QUOTE]Page 5 After his immigration case concluded with a decision to remove Magana Ortiz because of his 1989 illegal entry into the United States, he filed for a stay of removal in September 2014.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2017/05/30/17-16014.pdf[/URL] [QUOTE=El Periodista;52452787]since before we took half their country[/QUOTE] You mean land we won because they declared war on us and lost?

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52452911]The deportation proceedings started under Obama's administration. This article chose to omit that bit of info but you can read it in the court docs [URL]http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2017/05/30/17-16014.pdf[/URL] You mean land we won because they declared war on us and lost?[/QUOTE] The real question is how either one of these things changes the fact that a family of 10 years is being broken up, tax resources being wasted all to make sure some guy on an island working hard to make coffee is thrown to a place he hasn't been to in decades. Like please tell me how this helps anyone at all? The family doesn't get helped. The man doesnt get helped. It doesn't create any new job positions except for one that was created BY THE GUY. And another silly note, the Obama administration did some things wrong (gasp I know), but that is grade school level of thinking to try and even justify this through that. "Well he called me a mean name first!!" Though if you're posting to contradict just those two statements then that seems even sillier to reply at all. All I can hope is none of the people here who have less than normal sympathy don't suddenly have their own family taken away from them over something. Imagine that feeling of powerlessness and then being told "remember when you were born over thirty years ago in this one place? WELLLL WRONG CHOICE MOTHERFUCKER TIME TO PAY FOR YOUR CRIMES."

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52452911] You mean land we won because they declared war on us and lost?[/QUOTE] I mean, in the same sense that the Civil War was a war of northern aggression, sure. But that ignores that James Polk offered to buy the lands north of the Rio Grande, and moved troops into the disputed territories along the then-border when Mexico refused to sell. It also ignores the tension over the recent acquisition of Texas, which Mexico still considered their de jure territory even though it broke from Mexico during their prior reorganization from monarchy to republic. No, we pressured a fledgling Mexican Republic into a war we knew they would lose, and forced them to surrender the lands we offered to buy because our citizens desperately wanted California, largely due to the popularity of Manifest Destiny rhetoric at the time. And that war directly contributed to the rising tensions that started the American Civil War, as concerns about slavery and imperialism were once again brought into the fore. History is rarely so black and white.

[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;52454363]For somebody who blindly supports Trump, you seem really fond of something Obama started even though Trump has been busy removing everything he has achieved :buckteeth:[/QUOTE] Mate I don't know if you read this forum enough but Raidyr is fairly anti-trump. He was being sarcastic

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52452872]I thought marrying a US citizen gives you a permanent residence permit [/QUOTE] Nope, you're still required to go through the entire (I can personally attest this next part) very expensive and lengthy process of applying for a visa and green card like everyone else. Granted being married to a US citizen does give a person a leg up (this is heavily dependent on your nationality though) in getting your visa application approved but guarantees absolutely nothing. That being said, I believe there IS a fast track for green cards if you marry a US citizen while in possession of a US Visa, unfortunately if you read the article it specifically states he was smuggled in the US at the age of 15, which long predates his marriage.