Conservative Roman Catholic theologians accuse pope of spreading heresy - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]Several dozen tradition-minded Roman Catholic theologians, priests and academics have formally accused Pope Francis of spreading heresy with his 2016 opening to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics. In a 25-page letter delivered to Francis last month and provided Saturday to The Associated Press, the 62 signatories issued a "filial correction" to the pope — a measure they said hadn't been employed since the 14th century. The letter accused Francis of propagating seven heretical positions concerning marriage, moral life and the sacraments with his 2016 document "The Joy of Love" and subsequent "acts, words and omissions." The initiative follows another formal act by four tradition-minded cardinals who wrote Francis last year asking him to clarify a series of questions, or "dubbia," they had about his 2016 text. Francis hasn't responded to either initiative. The Vatican spokesman didn't immediately respond to an email seeking comment late Saturday. None of the signatories of the new letter is a cardinal, and the highest-ranking churchman listed is actually someone whose organization has no legal standing in the Catholic Church: Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior of the breakaway Society of St. Pius X. Several other signatories are well-known admirers of the old Latin Mass which Fellay's followers celebrate.[/quote] SOURCE: [url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-conservative-theologians-pope-heresy-20170923-story.html[/url]

I know the Pope has a few progressive views but I didn't expect a kind of Catholic Inquisition.

That has to be awkward as a Catholic priest. The guy who's supposed to be God's representative on Earth, the last link in the unbroken chain of apostolic tradition, the spiritual father of all catholics, etc. is actually a heretic.

Isn't it heretical to say that the man acting as the voice of god is wrong?

If some bumfuck random theologians even tried to get a pope this popular deposed on the grounds of heresy youd see riots across the catholic world. [editline]23rd September 2017[/editline] Although a modern antipope would probably be the most sad yet funny thing to happen this decade.

[QUOTE=c:;52711983]Isn't it heretical to say that the man acting as the voice of god is wrong?[/QUOTE] That has never stopped Catholics. I was raised as one - not just Catholic, but "the pope is wrong about almost everything since 1962" Catholic. You'd think, when you're rejecting basically fifty years of papal infallibility, you'd formally secede, but those are actually the smaller group. "Sedevecantists" (Latin for "empty seat", because Catholics love their Latin) claim that Pope John XXIII and every subsequent pope must have been illegally elected to support such heresy, but in my experience, the majority of ultraconservative Catholics do a shitload of doublethink to allow them to disagree with the Pope about half the shit he says, while still claiming to perfectly follow Catholic doctrine, and claim that the pope can be infallible about stuff. I never really understood it (part of why I'm [I]ex-[/I]catholic), but it basically hinges on papal infallibility only applying when he's speaking as The Fucking Pope, and not just some guy with a fancy hat. Normally it's pretty clear when a pope is speaking [I]ex officio[/I] - nobody claimed Pope Leo XIII's endorsement of a brand of coca wine is official church doctrine, he just like cocaine booze - but when it comes to stuff like "what is and is not a sin" or "who is and is not an ordained bishop", you'd [I]think[/I] the Pope kind of knows what he's talking about... but if you've decided to disagree, that's what you have to do to maintain the doublethink. And then those anti-reform-but-still-claim-to-follow-the-pope Catholics hate the there-is-no-pope-it's-all-heresy Catholics almost as much as they hate the can-we-just-say-Mass-in-English-for-fucks-sake Catholics. I half-expect a crusade to break out. [editline]23rd September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;52712052]If some bumfuck random theologians even tried to get a pope this popular deposed on the grounds of heresy youd see riots across the catholic world. [editline]23rd September 2017[/editline] Although a modern antipope would probably be the most sad yet funny thing to happen this decade.[/QUOTE] There's currently a Pope Peter III in Spain, a Pope Alexander IX in Spain, a Pope Michael I in Kansas, a Pope Linus II in Italy, and possibly another Pope Alexander IX in Argentina, although that might be the same one. And there was a line of Antipopes in Canada, although they don't seem to have elected a new one after the last died.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;5271205] There's currently a Pope Peter III in Spain, a Pope Alexander IX in Spain, a Pope Michael I in Kansas, a Pope Linus II in Italy, and possibly another Pope Alexander IX in Argentina, although that might be the same one. And there was a line of Antipopes in Canada, although they don't seem to have elected a new one after the last died.[/QUOTE] Edit. I didnt realize antipopes still existed in modern times. That's actually rather petty and sad

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52712029]The inevitable has started. I hope Francis has a plan.[/QUOTE] These people aren't part of the Catholic church. He doesn't need a plan and can ignore these people because they're not real Catholics. [editline]23rd September 2017[/editline] [quote]None of the signatories of the new letter is a cardinal, and the highest-ranking churchman listed is actually someone whose organization has no legal standing in the Catholic Church: Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior of the breakaway Society of St. Pius X. Several other signatories are well-known admirers of the old Latin Mass which Fellay's followers celebrate. [/quote] Yeah, real threatening, one dude's church and his followers.

The only way that a pope could be deposed is if most of the cardinals worked towards it or someone invading the vatican and forced in a new pope.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;52712076]If they believe the current pope to be invalid why dont they go the historical route and make someone an antipope?[/QUOTE] Some of them do. Most don't, because they're [I]Catholics[/I] and they have to follow the [I]rules[/I] and [I]procedures[/I], and the rules say the Pope can only be elected by a conclave of Cardinals and exactly zero Cardinals buy into that bullshit. They have a hard time just getting ordained clergy, because the rules say only a bishop can ordain priests and there's only a handful of sedevecantist bishops, and they can't just make more because you need a papal mandate to ordain a bishop. Seriously, Catholics are mostly Lawful Neutral on the alignment chart. I'm pretty sure the only reason they haven't crusaded in a few centuries is because they don't want to deal with the paperwork.

[QUOTE=c:;52711983]Isn't it heretical to say that the man acting as the voice of god is wrong?[/QUOTE] In Catholic theology, he's only acting as the voice of God when he claims to be on specific matters of the faith. It isn't a general trait of the pope.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52712029]The inevitable has started. I hope Francis has a plan.[/QUOTE] article says no cardinals were involved and its some breakaway american catholic group that isn't even formally a diocese

[QUOTE=Kommodore;52712150]article says no cardinals were involved and its some breakaway american catholic group that isn't even formally a diocese[/QUOTE] So basically it's people with no actual authority angrily shouting at clouds and sending letters?

[QUOTE=froztshock;52712156]So basically it's people with no actual authority angrily shouting at clouds and sending letters?[/QUOTE] As opposed to people with all too real authority angrily shouting at clouds, sending letters and all but officially sponsoring organised attacks against LGBTQ communities that make up a lot of higher Catholic hierarchy, yes.

From what I understand from the Joy of Love that Francis wrote, it basically says that instead of barring Catholics from communion who have divorced and/or remarried, look at them by a case-by-case basis and decide that in some circumstances, they can receive communion because of certain factors. The problem is that some hardcore catholics believe that this allows just anyone who is divorced or remarried to take communion whenever they please, which is blatantly not the case. Catholic.com did an explanation of it pretty well here: [video=youtube;lNA-HLYz1wE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNA-HLYz1wE[/video]

[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;52711938]I know the Pope has a few progressive views but I didn't expect a kind of Catholic Inquisition.[/QUOTE] NOBODY EXPECTS THE COSERVATIVE INQUISITION, MWAHAHAHAHA! na but really this was expected. as far as people he actually has to worry about he seems to have delt with all the cardinals and bishops by now even if the US ones appear to be the most conservative of the bunch

Dual popes again when?