[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWRQr3eNqp8[/media]
[quote]Massive explosions and a blaze at a military ammunition depot in central Ukraine have forced authorities to evacuate 30,000 people and close airspace over the region, officials have said.
The blasts occurred late on Tuesday local time at a military base near Kalynivka in the Vynnytsya region, 270 kilometres west of Kiev, Ukrainian emergencies service said in a statement.
Four residential buildings were damaged by the fire and one person was injured, but no casualties had been reported.
The military said rescue teams were evacuating nearby villages in the region, bussing more than 30,000 people out of the area.
Ukrainian Defence Ministry spokesman Andriy Ageyev said munitions at the military base were still detonating late on Wednesday morning.
But Prime Minister Volodymyr Groysman, who arrived to the area earlier, said the situation was under control and "external factors" were behind the incident.[/quote]
[url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-27/ukraine-ammunition-depot-explodes-forcing-thousands-to-evacuate/8993730[/url]
Damn, must have been a few thousand tonnes of ordnance to get an explosion that big. I wonder if it was deliberate.
[editline]27th September 2017[/editline]
Going from the detonation to sound time I'd put the explosion at about ~5000m away.
Second one I have heard of happening in Ukraine. I remember one a year or two ago.
In before someone says, "Russians did it" - if you'd know the "safety storage standards" in all of the CIS countries it's most likely yet another accident. Ammo dumps also used to explode here too because of some drunk warrant officer or something similar.
[QUOTE=maniacykt;52721924]In before someone says, "Russians did it" - if you'd know the "safety storage standards" in all of the CIS countries it's most likely yet another accident. Ammo dumps also used to explode here too because of some drunk warrant officer or something similar.[/QUOTE]
Ukraine still will blame Putin agents, because it's easier than making an investigation about reasons.
[QUOTE=maniacykt;52721924]In before someone says, "Russians did it" - if you'd know the "safety storage standards" in all of the CIS countries it's most likely yet another accident. Ammo dumps also used to explode here too because of some drunk warrant officer or something similar.[/QUOTE]
yeah lol, Ex-Soviet ammunition storage safety is lmao tier
Anyone have a link to the photos from the last munitions dump that blew up?
edit: found em
[url]http://fish12a.livejournal.com/1873580.html[/url]
[t]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/totalitat/67886964/1100/1100_900.jpg[/t][t]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/totalitat/67886964/7249/7249_900.jpg[/t]
[t]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/totalitat/67886964/1568/1568_900.jpg[/t][t]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/totalitat/67886964/3630/3630_900.jpg[/t]
If the average ammo dump is like this its a miracle shit doesnt explode more often.
When they say ammo dump, they really mean the dump part.
[QUOTE=Exploders;52722099]When they say ammo dump, they really mean the dump part.[/QUOTE]
When you spend fourty four years constantly producing weapons for a war that never comes, they have to end up somewhere.
[editline]27th September 2017[/editline]
Not that these dumps aren't a joke, of course. There's enough arms and armored vehicles (land, sea, air) in storage around the world to equip everyone on the planet thrice over. And still have spare parts and ammo.
actually this is like 5th massive ammo / weapon storage exploding at ukraine since the crimea crisis
30 to 60% of certain ammo types are gone since ...
[QUOTE=Thomo;52722285]All it takes is someone to be complacent and drop a cigarette or just wait for nature to do something like the wind to blow something onto something else and bang.
Honestly just invest in underground storage.[/QUOTE]
But that costs money.
[QUOTE=Thomo;52722285]or just wait for nature to do something like the wind to blow something onto something else and bang.[/QUOTE]
It's not like bombs are made from nitroglycerin.
[QUOTE=Araknid;52722058]yeah lol, Ex-Soviet ammunition storage safety is lmao tier
Anyone have a link to the photos from the last munitions dump that blew up?
edit: found em
[url]http://fish12a.livejournal.com/1873580.html[/url]
[t]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/totalitat/67886964/1100/1100_900.jpg[/t][t]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/totalitat/67886964/7249/7249_900.jpg[/t]
[t]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/totalitat/67886964/1568/1568_900.jpg[/t][t]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/totalitat/67886964/3630/3630_900.jpg[/t]
If the average ammo dump is like this its a miracle shit doesnt explode more often.[/QUOTE]
This is incredibe
[QUOTE=Dwarden;52722231]actually this is like 5th massive ammo / weapon storage exploding at ukraine since the crimea crisis
30 to 60% of certain ammo types are gone since ...[/QUOTE]
Honestly that really piques the interest of sabotage.
Sure, these ammo dumps are in terrible condition, but they're been like that for a long time. Why are they all blowing up [i]now[/i]?
There's no way these dumps are just randomly detonating. Very few types of munitions can spontaneously explode or blow up from being knocked over/blown down by wind. They are ideal targets for sabotage because they do tremendous amounts of damage, remove the munitions from the military stockpile, and once they've been put out, it's very difficult to determine the cause.
Anyone with a vested interest in damaging Ukraine's pocketbook, infrastructure, and any shreds of competency it may still appear to have would benefit from tossing a match in the right spot and then doggedly pushing the narrative that it just went up on its own because of incompetence and the whole sabotage story is a cover-up. This kind of stuff doesn't just happen, especially not this many times, out of the blue, with this kind of context.
If you really believe it's total coincidence that 5 major ammo dumps have gone up since the start of the Crimean war and none before then you are either naive beyond belief or lying.
SBU believes [I]all[/I] of these dump explosions are related to drone-based sabotage. In December 2015 drones dropped [I]14[/I] thermite grenades on the Balakilya dump, but the fires were put out before they caught. That dump "mysteriously" exploded a few months later.
[QUOTE=MR-X;52722455]This is incredibe[/QUOTE]
Most of the munitions at these dumps are stored properly in proper concrete bunkers (regardless of how much the countries care nowdays, USSR did care about safety of their military stuff). The problem starts when these dumps overflow (because the country doesn't care) and end up with piles like that.
While all those piles are temporary and the munitions in the previous case were slated to be moved elsewhere (and probably same in this case too), there was a wide enough window when they were just laying around. Perfect for sabotage.
Deja Vu anyone? I seem to recall an event just a few months ago with similar circumstances, and a post similar to araknid's above. Almost thought this was a bump
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52722817][I]*Them ruskies did it*[/I][/QUOTE]
Well, okay. It's not like I have reliable way to disprove this. Maybe rebels did it, maybe GRU did it.
Or maybe it's what it is - a negligence plus terrible conditions and a nice context to arouse suspicions to push away any incompetence accusations.
You have to be very dumb to not consider that open storage of tons of high explosives is a very lucrative sabotage target for your enemies - why there's no proper security or monitoring?
Why there's not even a shred of proof? This could be a perfect accusation basis but nobody saw nothing, nobody found anything, we're not gonna investigate shit because "It's obvious it's goddamn Putin".
[QUOTE=maniacykt;52722881]Well, okay. It's not like I have reliable way to disprove this. Maybe rebels did it, maybe GRU did it.
Or maybe it's what it is - a negligence plus terrible conditions and a nice context to arouse suspicions to push away any incompetence accusations.
You have to be very dumb to not consider that open storage of tons of high explosives is a very lucrative sabotage target for your enemies - why there's no proper security or monitoring?
Why there's not even a shred of proof? This could be a perfect accusation basis but nobody saw nothing, nobody found anything, we're not gonna investigate shit because "It's obvious it's goddamn Putin".[/QUOTE]
You should take the time to carefully inspect my post and then point out where I accused the Russian government of sabotaging the dump.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52722913]You should take the time to carefully inspect my post and then point out where I accused the Russian government of sabotaging the dump.[/QUOTE]
Your wording implied this.
But fine, be that way and humor me, who else is interested in damaging Ukraine?
[QUOTE=maniacykt;52722930]Your wording implied this.
But fine, be that way and humor me, who else is interested in damaging Ukraine?[/QUOTE]
Crimean rebels would be the prime suspect in my view. They are Russian backed, but that's not the same thing as Russia bombing the depots.
I would not be shocked if Russia had a direct hand in it, but why risk your own personnel when you have local rebels who will eventually do it themselves if you give them a little push in the right direction? If Russia was proven to have dropped the grenades and lit up the depots, that would constitute an act of war. Letting the rebels do it keeps the Kremlin's hands clean. All they need to do then is play dumb and push the incompetent Ukrainsky comrads xaxaxa))) narrative in the media.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52722937]Crimean rebels would be the prime suspect in my view. They are Russian backed, but that's not the same thing as Russia bombing the depots.[/QUOTE]
What [I]crimean [/I]rebels are you even talking about.
[QUOTE=antianan;52723003]What [I]crimean [/I]rebels are you even talking about.[/QUOTE]
Apologies, I was referring to Donbass. I'm running on coffee alone right now.
[QUOTE=maniacykt;52722881]Well, okay. It's not like I have reliable way to disprove this. Maybe rebels did it, maybe GRU did it.
Or maybe it's what it is - a negligence plus terrible conditions and a nice context to arouse suspicions to push away any incompetence accusations.
You have to be very dumb to not consider that open storage of tons of high explosives is a very lucrative sabotage target for your enemies - why there's no proper security or monitoring?
Why there's not even a shred of proof? This could be a perfect accusation basis but nobody saw nothing, nobody found anything, we're not gonna investigate shit because "It's obvious it's goddamn Putin".[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, in times of war, everyone suddenly becomes clumsy and incompetent in handling ammunitions.
Considering that before the war these explosions never happend in such frequency it's a little bit strange,
why do you act surprised people are suspicious about the fact several ammo depots are suddenly exploding in a short timespan?
[QUOTE=maniacykt;52722881]Well, okay. It's not like I have reliable way to disprove this. Maybe rebels did it, maybe GRU did it.
Or maybe it's what it is - a negligence plus terrible conditions and a nice context to arouse suspicions to push away any incompetence accusations.
You have to be very dumb to not consider that open storage of tons of high explosives is a very lucrative sabotage target for your enemies - why there's no proper security or monitoring?
[B]Why there's not even a shred of proof?[/B] This could be a perfect accusation basis but nobody saw nothing, nobody found anything, we're not gonna investigate shit because "It's obvious it's goddamn Putin".[/QUOTE]
Probably because it fuckin blew up.
I find it hilarious that you can't [I]possibly[/I] believe, or are very reluctant to believe, it was sabotage despite the fact that the Ukraine has been fighting a bunch of rebels for YEARS now. Gosh, I wonder who would have a vested interest in destroying these ammo dumps!
But no, go ahead and keep telling us that it's incompetence and it's just some bored army worker tossing matches at a stack of bombs. Funny how these ammo dumps didn't start blowing up until after they were in a conflict.
[QUOTE=bigbadbarron;52722874]Deja Vu anyone? I seem to recall an event just a few months ago with similar circumstances, and a post similar to araknid's above. Almost thought this was a bump[/QUOTE]
The one a few months ago was later said to be caused by a drone loaded with explosives flying into it.
[editline]27th September 2017[/editline]
[url]http://www.vocativ.com/441008/russian-drone-blow-up-ukrainian-ammo-base/[/url]
[editline]27th September 2017[/editline]
[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39363416[/url]
[QUOTE=Araknid;52722058]yeah lol, Ex-Soviet ammunition storage safety is lmao tier
Anyone have a link to the photos from the last munitions dump that blew up?
edit: found em
[url]http://fish12a.livejournal.com/1873580.html[/url]
[t]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/totalitat/67886964/7249/7249_900.jpg[/t]
If the average ammo dump is like this its a miracle shit doesnt explode more often.[/QUOTE]
This guy tops it off
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;52723267]Probably because it fuckin blew up.
I find it hilarious that you can't [I]possibly[/I] believe, or are very reluctant to believe, it was sabotage despite the fact that the Ukraine has been fighting a bunch of rebels for YEARS now. Gosh, I wonder who would have a vested interest in destroying these ammo dumps!
But no, go ahead and keep telling us that it's incompetence and it's just some bored army worker tossing matches at a stack of bombs. Funny how these ammo dumps didn't start blowing up until after they were in a conflict.[/QUOTE]
I can believe that it was sabotage, after all some parts of Ukraine are a warzone but still I'm rather skeptical of it because I know HOW things are done here in regard to storing and safety so excuse me then. You may not see it that way but then again you don't live in CIS state, you couldn't possibly understand how it's the most plausible explanation.
Either way I'm baffled at the complete lack of proper security at the supposed munition storage facility. It's like they paint a huge bullseye on themselves.
[QUOTE=maniacykt;52723876]I can believe that it was sabotage, after all some parts of Ukraine are a warzone but still I'm rather skeptical of it because I know HOW things are done here in regard to storing and safety so excuse me then. You may not see it that way but then again you don't live in CIS state, you couldn't possibly understand how it's the most plausible explanation.
Either way I'm baffled at the complete lack of proper security at the supposed munition storage facility. It's like they paint a huge bullseye on themselves.[/QUOTE]
I don't know much about Munition Dumps (in my country or others) Is it standard to have such large quantities of the ordinance located in a big complex? I always assumed these sorts of sites would be spread out and of small quantities to prevent a single strike from causing a large loss, at least for munitions meant to be used at some point.
Hm, I asked my friend (who was still in army in 90's) and he told me, that it could also be blown up by Ukrainian generals themselves, as it is a great cover-up for stolen and re-sold goods.
No one is gonna check, how many cases with ammunition exploded - 200, or 50. So, no one is gonna ask, where those 150 cases dissapeared. As he told me, it was actually used by some corrupt fucks in his unit back in 94.
In this case it also gives government an another excuse to blame Russia for everything.
[QUOTE=bigbadbarron;52725134]I don't know much about Munition Dumps (in my country or others) Is it standard to have such large quantities of the ordinance located in a big complex? I always assumed these sorts of sites would be spread out and of small quantities to prevent a single strike from causing a large loss, at least for munitions meant to be used at some point.[/QUOTE]
Ideally they would be stored in blast protected magazines (i.e. bunkers) sufficient distance from each other that the loss of a magazine does not destroy everything in the dump. It's the basics of safe explosives storage.
Given Ukraine is pretty much broke I wouldn't be surprised if these requirements were ignored.
[QUOTE=DoktorAkcel;52725156]Hm, I asked my friend (who was still in army in 90's) and he told me, that it could also be blown up by Ukrainian generals themselves, as it is a great cover-up for stolen and re-sold goods.
No one is gonna check, how many cases with ammunition exploded - 200, or 50. So, no one is gonna ask, where those 150 cases dissapeared. As he told me, it was actually used by some corrupt fucks in his unit back in 94.
[B]In this case it also gives government an another excuse to blame Russia for everything[/B].[/QUOTE]
I like how Russian posters (and even some non-Russian posters) keep peddling this "haha, Ukraine just wants to blame mean ol' Russian for everything! :rolleyes:", somehow forgetting that Russia [I]illegally invaded and annexed part of Ukraine[/I] and has been occupying it for three fucking years. The Ukrainians are well within their rights to be suspicious of Russia, especially when munitions dumps that have been sitting undisturbed for decades suddenly start exploding right when Russia sets its eyes on Ukraine.
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