British Minister: Only way to beat ISIS death cult is to kill everybody - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]The only way of dealing with British ISIS fighters in Syria "in almost every case" is to kill them, a British government minister told the BBC on Sunday. They believe in an extremely hateful doctrine which involves killing themselves, killing others and trying to use violence and brutality to create an 8th Century, or 7th Century, state," Stewart said. "So I'm afraid we have to be serious about the fact these people are a serious danger to us, and unfortunately, the only way of dealing with them will be, in almost every case, to kill them." A U.K. government spokesperson said Stewart's comments were in line with Britain's stated position.[/quote] [url=https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/23/killing-british-isis-fighters-the-only-option-in-almost-every-case-uk-minister-says.html]CNBC[/url] [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/british-isis-fighters-syria-must-be-killed-rory-stewart-a8014431.html]The Independent[/url]

oops. misread -snip

Genius! How come we've never thought of this before?!

Title made me think he advocated dropping bombs indiscriminately or something

Unfortunately he's right. There is no nonviolent solution to ISIS and I don't believe most of its fighters will peacefully reintegrate when the caliphate falls.

In the past we have attempted to rehabilitate members of the Islamic State of Iraq, and they later came back and were responsible for the horrendous things we saw in 2014 ~ 2017. I stand by how the Iraqis are dealing with this problem. Putting them on trial, and if they are found to have voluntarily joined ISIS and actively aided in it's efforts, hang or shoot them. They are not a standing military, they are a gang of psychopaths that go around destroying history, murdering and raping civilians, and killing people because of their faith. I'm hopeful that governments in Europe will also clamp down on this, and take any members of ISIS and put them on trial. If they were actively fighting in Iraq or Syria, we send them with a bow and ribbon to said countries, and let them meet their fate.

No doubt that killing key figures and combatants of ISIS is needed, but we need to sew up the vacuums in trustworthy ways that allow some form of healing after such malicious and bloody history. Clean up and rebuild after destruction occurs, you don't want feet stepping on the shards and creating new volatile wounds that eventually kill innocents. There needs to be healthy and prosperous nations in the future, not a destructive Ouroboros that destroys and births further destruction in the place of those killed. It's a tough thing to perform political surgery as it requires sequences of compromise in grey areas, help from the world over, and it will be a team effort from all walks of life. If we're to ever live in a world that can save itself from destruction in order to leave something great behind for as many people as possible past our time; we'll require time, effort, and a lot of hope.

Either kill them or lock them up for life in solitary confinement. Willingfully engaging in violent terrorism against civilians over religious differences and intolerance is surely a sign of mental instability.

[QUOTE=Gogeta SS4;52812320]Genius! How come we've never thought of this before?![/QUOTE] great contribution genius! but he's trying to address people who are against the idea of killing ISIS. Fucking obviously. He's not bringing up some radical new idea. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Garbage post, again. Instead of being a condescending prick you should try doing something constructive to the conversation." - UncleJimmema))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52812332]Unfortunately he's right. There is no nonviolent solution to ISIS and I don't believe most of its fighters will peacefully reintegrate when the caliphate falls.[/QUOTE] Either that, or spend trillions on rehabilitation therapy and mind-altering drugs to reshape millions of damaged and deranged minds. So like it has been said, no real nonviolent solution. Though it probably does stick us between a rock and a hard place; they're too dangerous to allow to regroup and spread their ideological plague to younger victims, but on the other hand the only viable way to get rid of them would effectively be a form of genocide, killing millions due to their (admittedly dangerous) beliefs. It would be a VERY hard deal to swallow either way, especially since they're still technically human beings. I don't argue that this ideology needs to die horribly, but I'd much rather we treat it like a disease, and attempt to treat it accordingly, rather than executing a campaign of en-mass "pest control". Though even if we went with the plan of rendering ISIS fighters "docile" through intensive therapy, assuming money were no object (who the hell is going to pay for this operation?), we would probably still have to play by triage rules, prioritizing the cases most likely to reform and working down the list accordingly (children first, most likely). And even with the best psychologists, the most secure facilities, and the most effective psychotropic drugs, we'd still have to terminate and/or quarantine a lot of cases that we find to be beyond our ability to cure. Not to mention, we would need to make sure that the rehabilitated HAVEN'T been reprogrammed for nefarious purposes a'la MK Ultra. It might sound outlandish, even in comparison to the notion of mentally reconditioning the entirety of ISIS, but stranger things have happened.

In an effort to curb the insanity created by these dicks, I'm inclined to agree with the minister. The way I see it, if you subscribe to a death cult then you're not worth tax payer money to try and rehabilitate. In no war has any opposition tried to rehabilitate enemy combatants to make them 'see it our way'. It's silly to think anyone who is willfully violent for a cause as rubbish as theirs can be treated as anything but a pest.

and to stop hackers we need to make unhackable computers

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52812442]In an effort to curb the insanity created by these dicks, I'm inclined to agree with the minister. The way I see it, if you subscribe to a death cult then you're not worth tax payer money to try and rehabilitate. In no war has any opposition tried to rehabilitate enemy combatants to make them 'see it our way'. It's silly to think anyone who is willfully violent for a cause as rubbish as theirs can be treated as anything but a pest.[/QUOTE] That is sadly true. But whether or not it's economical to eliminate as much of ISIS as possible, genocide is still genocide, even if it's against genocidal maniacs. And whether or not it's economical to rehabilitate millions, if you can reliably and effectively change someone's mind for the better, you'd be doing the human race a disservice by not at least TRYING. And if we enacted this genocide, even if it is against genocidal maniacs, how would history view us? If we tried to rehabilitate them, even if we failed, history would probably be more sympathetic towards us than if we just slaughtered the lot of them. After all, at the end of the day this isn't a plague of rats we're dealing with here. We're dealing with a horrifying disease that has infected millions and turned them into ideological killers. But unlike the case of a zombie outbreak, the infected are still very much human. They have not been irrevocably transformed by the pathogen, even if the cost of reforming them would be very high, especially with the risks involved in capturing them alive. With the right drugs and the right therapy, there would still be a chance of converting a genocidal maniac into a docile individual, or at least a man-shaped pile of tears and regret. You can still USE a man-shaped pile of tears and regret for various purposes, while a corpse is only good for fertilizer and desert carrion. (scientific fact) Even if the cost is very high, we should still do it. After all, we don't shoot someone in the head if they've broken their leg, right? And last I checked, ISIS doesn't recruit horses.

As terrible as it sounds, killing off ISIS isn't likely to fix anything in the long run. Recall there were similar sentiments about killing off Al Qaeda/The Taliban that seem naive in retrospect. I'd recommend everyone check out Kill Chain by Andrew Cockburn. Essentially the way we're fighting our wars in the Middle East accomplishes very little from a long term view other than generating contracts for defense companies. Emphasis on high value targets has led to a war primarily fought through assassination of leaders via targeted drone strikes or kill teams. This does little other than generate Anti-US sentiment, due to the high collateral damage of drone strikes. Protip: Any fighting aged man killed in a drone strike is classified as an enemy combatant. Assuming a drone strike actually does kill a prominent figure in ISIS/whatever regime we're fighting at the moment, they're likely to be replaced very quickly, often by a younger, even more radical family member or friend bent on avenging the death of their friend. As awful as ISIS is, there are numerous genocides and injustices occuring throughout the world. To act as if ISIS is some special kind of evil that warrants foreign interventionism is hypocritical. And yes, I know that the events that led to the current destabilization of the Middle East were largely the result of foreign interventionism, but that doesn't mean more intervention can solve them.

I feel like just bombing the shit out of stuff we don't like sort of contributed to isis We'll just bomb our way out of this

Killing off anyone with ties to ISIS is a surefire way to breed new terrorist groups. Family, friends or even just random people from the region see another nation killing their people, even if they're not active fighters. If that doesn't breed hatred, I don't know what does.

[QUOTE=Davoc;52812512]and to stop hackers we need to make unhackable computers[/QUOTE] Ironic shitposting is still shitposting. The minister is right, however it is quite questionable to kill ISIS if they are, for example, prisoners.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52812780]Killing off anyone with ties to ISIS is a surefire way to breed new terrorist groups. Family, friends or even just random people from the region see another nation killing their people, even if they're not active fighters. If that doesn't breed hatred, I don't know what does.[/QUOTE] No doubt, it's a tricky case of trying to end wars and trying not to cause the wars of tomorrow. Wars are like diseases that spread upon death and with bloodshed, yet they're stopped with what spreads them to an extent. To truly end a war and make a chapter in history come to a close, it requires hard work and empathy from people known well and people who many wish to forget.

I mostly just got a kick out of the irony of denouncing barbaric, antiquated practices before going on to say that we should just kill 'em all and let God sort them out

Can't we just stop fucking around with them Although it's a bit late for that now

[QUOTE=Perrine;52812324]Title made me think he advocated dropping bombs indiscriminately or something[/QUOTE] Well if we know where they're congregating...

[QUOTE=ironman17;52812430]Either that, or spend trillions on rehabilitation therapy and mind-altering drugs to reshape millions of damaged and deranged minds. So like it has been said, no real nonviolent solution. Though it probably does stick us between a rock and a hard place; they're too dangerous to allow to regroup and spread their ideological plague to younger victims, but on the other hand the only viable way to get rid of them would effectively be a form of genocide, killing millions due to their (admittedly dangerous) beliefs. It would be a VERY hard deal to swallow either way, especially since they're still technically human beings. I don't argue that this ideology needs to die horribly, but I'd much rather we treat it like a disease, and attempt to treat it accordingly, rather than executing a campaign of en-mass "pest control". Though even if we went with the plan of rendering ISIS fighters "docile" through intensive therapy, assuming money were no object (who the hell is going to pay for this operation?), we would probably still have to play by triage rules, prioritizing the cases most likely to reform and working down the list accordingly (children first, most likely). And even with the best psychologists, the most secure facilities, and the most effective psychotropic drugs, we'd still have to terminate and/or quarantine a lot of cases that we find to be beyond our ability to cure. Not to mention, we would need to make sure that the rehabilitated HAVEN'T been reprogrammed for nefarious purposes a'la MK Ultra. It might sound outlandish, even in comparison to the notion of mentally reconditioning the entirety of ISIS, but stranger things have happened.[/QUOTE] Killing ISIS members isn't a type of genocide since they'd be executed for their actions including actual genocide, not their beliefs or ethnicity.

Eh, that's a fair enough argument to make. I was just concerned about the notion of killing literal millions of human beings, even if most of them would probably do the same given the opportunity.

I say we do to ISIS what Saladin did to the Christians in Jerusalem. Its better than death or rotting in a cage but they will remember why they were punished. Or they could pay the ransom.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52812382]In the past we have attempted to rehabilitate members of the Islamic State of Iraq, and they later came back and were responsible for the horrendous things we saw in 2014 ~ 2017. I stand by how the Iraqis are dealing with this problem. Putting them on trial, and if they are found to have voluntarily joined ISIS and actively aided in it's efforts, hang or shoot them. They are not a standing military, they are a gang of psychopaths that go around destroying history, murdering and raping civilians, and killing people because of their faith. I'm hopeful that governments in Europe will also clamp down on this, and take any members of ISIS and put them on trial. If they were actively fighting in Iraq or Syria, we send them with a bow and ribbon to said countries, and let them meet their fate.[/QUOTE] Honestly hanging or shooting is too mild. Maybe crucifiction?

[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;52815118]Honestly hanging or shooting is too mild. Maybe crucifiction?[/QUOTE] Lets not. The reason we are better than them is our capacity for restraint.

I think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we take this as we should do it directly ourselves. We really do have to take into consideration how many people over there fucking hate us (the west) after everything that's happened. Even if we consider ourselves to be somewhat in the right on the matter, that doesn't stop the bombs we drop on militants killing innocent people around them, and those people have families. We need a better approach, giving them the tools and support to fight IS themselves, which is what we've somewhat been doing but unfortunately failed in choosing these people wisely in the large percentage of cases.

[QUOTE=Faunze;52815159]I think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we take this as we should do it directly ourselves. We really do have to take into consideration how many people over there fucking hate us (the west) after everything that's happened. Even if we consider ourselves to be somewhat in the right on the matter, that doesn't stop the bombs we drop on militants killing innocent people around them, and those people have families. We need a better approach, giving them the tools and support to fight IS themselves, which is what we've somewhat been doing but unfortunately failed in choosing these people wisely in the large percentage of cases.[/QUOTE] Agree, the "kill them all" mentality is pretty dangerous. The active combatants I can understand, they pose an immediate and direct threat to our soldiers. Those who commit war crimes but are caught should be tried and jailed/sentenced. But here's the thing, what about the families? A woman who grew up in a radical family under a radical regime will raise a radical child, which will just lead to another ISIS in a generation or so. The best solution will have to be diplomacy, rehabilitation, lots of counseling, and like you said, giving the locals tools. There are problems that arise with every step of that process but it seriously, absolutely can not be a blanket "kill them all." The last point for example, is completely lost if the generals you give training and resources to are child rapists who say "well if there is no woman to fuck, who else but little boys are there" as was widespread and documented. It's the second most difficult problem the world is facing right now after Global Climate Change, and the single most difficult social/political issue, so yeah it's not gonna be easy. But even so, I'm surprised at how many people here support the statement, seemingly without reading the article, since the guy was only talking about radicalized British citizens who left to fight for ISIS. Slight nuance but it's still there.

It's the same story with other fanatics. They are irrational and stubborn, which negates any possibility of peaceful reasoning. Death is the only solution that was proven to work, no matter how inhumane that is. Some people just never change. ISIS, Nazis, radical nationalists, Francoists, IRA and so on. They are using force to turn our lives into a hell-on-Earth and so we shall respond too.

[QUOTE=Mifil;52815193]It's the same story with other fanatics. They are irrational and stubborn, which negates any possibility of peaceful reasoning. Death is the only solution that was proven to work, no matter how inhumane that is. Some people just never change. ISIS, Nazis, radical nationalists, Francoists, IRA and so on. They are using force to turn our lives into a hell-on-Earth and so we shall respond too.[/QUOTE] So when was it proven to work, with ISIS being basically an offshoot of a previous analogous group except with even more hatred against the west for killing their families, and with Nazis now gaining a foothold in the west via the POTUS. How has your life been turned into a hell on earth by them? Heck, how has life in Poland been turned into a hell on earth? The "negates any possibility of peaceful reasoning" is an emotional statement which isn't backed by facts. [url=https://jtr.st-andrews.ac.uk/articles/10.15664/jtr.1154/]Rehabilitation has had mixed success before[/url] but what history says is that blindly just murdering all of them doesn't help in the least.