Two in three Australians think religion does more harm than good in the world - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote=Sydney Morning Herald]A bigger share of Australians than respondents in most other countries think religion does more harm than good in the world, new polling has revealed. But we are also more comfortable with religious diversity than the international average. The survey of more than 17,000 people across 23 countries by polling firm Ipsos found opinion is evenly divided about the influence that religion has in society. It showed 49 per cent of respondents across all countries agreed with the statement "religion does more harm in the world than good". But the proportion of Australians agreeing with that statement was well above the international average at 63 per cent. "Australia is one of the more negative countries regarding the perceived harm that religion does," David Elliott from the Ipsos Social Research Institute said. Only Belgium (68 per cent) had a higher proportion than Australia who agreed religion does more harm than good, while Germany and Spain were on par with Australia. Even so, Australia had an above-average share who felt "completely comfortable" being around people with different religious beliefs to their own (84 per cent).[/quote] Read more at [url]http://www.smh.com.au/national/ipsos-global-poll-two-in-three-australians-think-religion-does-more-harm-than-good-in-the-world-20171011-gyz7ii.html/?eid=socialn%3Afac-16omntEN0118-eng-FB-02062016-Engagement-nnn-nnn-nnn-SMH-nnn&campaign_code=Engagement&promote_channel=SMH_A_SM_FB_GE[/url]

[QUOTE]Australia is one of the more negative countries regarding the perceived harm that religion does[/QUOTE] What's so negative about that?

I wonder if this gives a great insight onto the gay marriage vote :thinking:

Well I know the target of the next crusade fellas.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the institutional child abuse over the last half century that is finally resulting in criminal proceedings? Honestly though, most Aussies are okay with your religion or lack thereof, just so long as you keep your mouth shut.

[QUOTE=Megadave;52780743]What's so negative about that?[/QUOTE] Not really negative but it is a naive outlook to have. The absence of religion won't make humans any less hateful or violent. We wouldn't fight over which god is right, we'd just fight over something more tangible like resources, country, ethnicity, ect. There would still be war and genocide if religion never existed.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52780830]Not really negative but it is a naive outlook to have. The absence of religion won't make humans any less hateful or violent. We wouldn't fight over which god is right, we'd just fight over something more tangible like resources, country, ethnicity, ect. There would still be war and genocide if religion never existed.[/QUOTE] I agree with you, but I also feel that religion allows people excuses. It's amazing the evil shit people can do if they feel they're justified. However, like you said, if it wasn't religion making people feel justified in doing terrible shit, it would be something else.

[QUOTE=Penultimate;52780851]I agree with you, but I also feel that religion allows people excuses. It's amazing the evil shit people can do if they feel they're justified. However, like you said, if it wasn't religion making people feel justified in doing terrible shit, it would be something else.[/QUOTE] Exactly. Religion is a popular excuse for acts against humanity because its easy to get behind. But using country or race isn't far off, religion just tends to be more easily abused. If religion weren't around, then they would use different excuses.

[QUOTE=Bradyns;52780823]I wonder if this has anything to do with the institutional child abuse over the last half century that is finally resulting in criminal proceedings? Honestly though, most Aussies are okay with your religion or lack thereof, just so long as you keep your mouth shut.[/QUOTE] It's got everything to do with the royal Commission and cover up from various churches and religious organisations Religion is almost unheard of in my personal life, tho many are agnostic, I rarely hear anyone talk about religion anymore

It ends up being because the main religions have quite a few bad apples and controversy, so then people start thinking "Well then the whole religion is bad"

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52780830]There would still be war and genocide if religion never existed.[/QUOTE] while this is perfectly true [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52780830]The absence of religion won't make humans any less hateful or violent.[/QUOTE] this is not true at all

I don't know anyone who is heavily religious, anyone at all. The closest I could say it my grandmother, who doesn't believe in god, but believes that ghosts and angels are one and the same and that the people we love who've passed on look out for us.

[QUOTE=MakoSkyDub;52780964]while this is perfectly true this is not true at all[/QUOTE] Do you want to justify that or just leave it at "nah". The way I see it, the last couple religious wars and warriors had loose religious justifications as a front for something else. Hell, even ISIS started out robbing banks, then moved up in the world with dlave trading and selling oil. The whole Wahhabist bullshit is just a front to garner support from other radical muslims.

It's much easier to brainwash people using religion than without. The very basis of most religions is faith ie never question or doubt what the religion says. At least with other methods people have to rationalize away their contradictions, religious people can do away with that entirely.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52780830]Not really negative but it is a naive outlook to have. The absence of religion won't make humans any less hateful or violent. We wouldn't fight over which god is right, we'd just fight over something more tangible like resources, country, ethnicity, ect. There would still be war and genocide if religion never existed.[/QUOTE] Isn't that a far more fucking cynical view to have, that we're just innately programmed to be bastard-coated bastards no matter what we do?

-snip. Eh fuck it, worded a shitty response.

[QUOTE=Uber22;52781235]You understand that Humans are animals. No matter what tools or ideals we're given. Humanity will continue to occasionally find that dark corner that exists in our minds.[/QUOTE] This is a really stupid argument. Why even bother having laws and civilization if ~the dark corners of humanity will still remain~? No shit some people are simply just cruel, but how is that an excuse to do nothing to live in as peaceful a society as possible? Do you not believe that the structure in which humans evolve matters at least as much as their nature? [editline]15th October 2017[/editline] This crap is like the "boys will be boys" of ideology.

[QUOTE=Uber22;52781235]You understand that Humans are animals. No matter what tools or ideals we're given. Humanity will continue to occasionally find that dark corner that exists in our minds.[/QUOTE] This some AP Psych/Pop-Anthropology bollocks cooked up to justify the innate chaos of life and nature, isn't it?

[QUOTE=Uber22;52781235]You understand that Humans are animals. No matter what tools or ideals we're given. Humanity will continue to occasionally find that dark corner that exists in our minds.[/QUOTE] Except what splits us from the other animals is that we found out that working together en mass, as opposed to killing each other for one reason or another, is better for everyone. Hell, if that dark corner exists in my mind, why do I feel no empathy towards murderers, or outright refuse to harm anything, including insects?

[QUOTE=Bradyns;52780823]I wonder if this has anything to do with the institutional child abuse over the last half century that is finally resulting in criminal proceedings?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]It ends up being because the main religions have quite a few bad apples and controversy, so then people start thinking "Well then the whole religion is bad"[/QUOTE] - personnal story, snip -

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52781020]Do you want to justify that or just leave it at "nah". The way I see it, the last couple religious wars and warriors had loose religious justifications as a front for something else. Hell, even ISIS started out robbing banks, then moved up in the world with dlave trading and selling oil. The whole Wahhabist bullshit is just a front to garner support from other radical muslims.[/QUOTE] I shouldn't have bothered to dip my toe into this haha oh well I can't really fathom the way you see it then lol with regard to religious warriors. religiously motivated attacks go on so constantly in africa and the middle east it's impossible to get reports of them all but to make it more relatable if you like, the last or latest few people who would consider themselves religious warriors did the following things in western countries during the last few weeks -knifed a solider patrolling a paris subway station while shouting about islam -ran around an eastern french town bludgeoning passers-by with a hammer while shouting about islam -set off an incendiary bomb on the london underground on a train carriage at rush hour the notion that this or really any other of the many many violent actions anyone could direct your attention to from those of muslim faith have only "loose religious justifications" and are really done for cynical reasons of profit as you're trying to suggest about isis is laughable. these people believe what they believe, take them at their word to your first question, I shouldn't have to to be honest, I thought you wrote that hastily so I just wanted anyone who read it over to think about it for another second. but if you like I'll try to give a very condensed reply to that. the simplest way at the risk of harping on the same subject is the example of the islamic faith in contrast to the religion we see in the west. I think I have this stat right, if not forgive me I don't have the source in front of me, but 1/5 of the global population is muslim, and an approximate 2/3 of all violence committed today is by muslims. obviously we are not to assume that these people are ethnically, hereditarily imbibed with malign instincts. the texture of their societies is deeply religious, and it happens to be a pretty draconian religion that they're born into. you could reasonably say at this point that poor education is an equal factor contributing to violence and other backward circumstances, but the reason education etc. is poor in theocratic parts of the world is usually - you guessed it. indeed without talking about the export of violence at all you can ask yourself a straightforward question, where would I rather live? And then make a list of all of the places in the world from best to worst in that regard, and see how closely that would correlate with a list of places from least to most religious. I would predict a very close match. to come back to relativity between islamic countries and the west - christianity obviously was a great source of violence and constriction, when it had a firm hold (as the islamic faith still does to a large extent). but it's an older religion, it's been watered down over centuries, lost its power and influence by inches, been domesticated by Darwin, by the enlightenment, by time. so we have a very largely secular west, with vestigial soft-private faith and a few traditions. again where would you rather live? as you crank up the religiosity in a country the floor drops and drops in terms of every other desirable aspect you would like to see in a society. your statements were firstly that war and genocide would occur in the absence of faith - again that's true, values and attitudes and morals must undergo the refining fires of an often bloody history, with or without reference to the supernatural (I would submit that given a broad enough sweep of time people would reach a state of affairs without genocide or any large scale armed conflict but that is a different debate). secondly you said that the absence of religion would not make humans any less hateful or violent. this I repeat is very plainly and demonstrably false and I hope I've made a case for saying so by now because I don't think I have the time to leave more lengthy replies in here haha I can't resist leaving a closing quote though: where religion ends, philosophy begins. as soon as you drop dogma you can start discussing how to improve quality of life and everything else on objective terms. it begins with individuals and eventually you have whole cultures worth admiring and enviable to live in. this is how you become as a people less hateful and less violent and it absolutely works.

We'll still kill each other over money and political beliefs :)

Religion disappearing tomorrow wouldn't make the world trouble free, but it's obvious that religious dogma is a conservative force - take homophobia for example. It was basically the rule not that long ago, but people have grown more accepting; religious people less so.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52780830]Not really negative but it is a naive outlook to have. The absence of religion won't make humans any less hateful or violent. We wouldn't fight over which god is right, we'd just fight over something more tangible like resources, country, ethnicity, ect. There would still be war and genocide if religion never existed.[/QUOTE] I'm surprised you don't see the difference in fighting over different beliefs in mythical beings, superstitious rituals, and stories about the afterlife versus fighting over land and natural resources. [i]That's[/i] naive to me IMO. Put it this way: without religion, we'd have one less excuse to fight each other, and people in power would have one less tool to manipulate the masses with (as they have done historically). We'd also have one less barrier against progressive attitudes and legislation.

How many people have died due to religion since the crusades? A couple hundred million? How many have lived under iron rule with little to no freedom because of it? I don't care if people want to believe in an all powerful force, but the religions surrounding it need to go. There's no place for such matter of fact thinking to such an extent you'll kill over it when the only evidence that supports any of the religion is the stupid book

So Im tired and i completely read the title ass backwards. Read it as "two to three Australians do more harm than good in the world". And i wasnt sure if i agreed. I had to think about it.

[QUOTE=_Axel;52781194]It's much easier to brainwash people using religion than without. The very basis of most religions is faith ie never question or doubt what the religion says. At least with other methods people have to rationalize away their contradictions, religious people can do away with that entirely.[/QUOTE] They don't have religion in north korea, and in China if you don't follow the "official" branch of one the religions run by the state you disappear. So you're actually wrong, since having no religion makes you just as likely to be brainwashed by some dictator or your own parents.

[QUOTE=space1;52788164]They don't have religion in north korea, and in China if you don't follow the "official" branch of one the religions run by the state you disappear. So you're actually wrong, since having no religion makes you just as likely to be brainwashed by some dictator or your own parents.[/QUOTE] That's not a very good point, it making things easier doesn't mean that it's impossible to do without. In fact you'll find those dictatorships follow a very similar pattern to religions. There are outright cults surrounding the dictators' persons, and just like with religion, it is demanded that God/the leader's word is never called into question. Don't you think religious leaders wielding a similar form of power can be a little concerning? In fact, the reason dictatorships like these forbid religious cults is that, just like political opponents, they're an obstacle that compete with the dictator's personality cult, and if the supreme leader has to answer to God (and thus religious leaders) he's not really supreme.

I think if you're religious, you're religious. It doesn't make you any better or worse of a person, your actions are what defines you. If people are so hanky about what other people believe that they have to obsess over it they should get a hobby tbh

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52788867]I think if you're religious, you're religious. It doesn't make you any better or worse of a person, your actions are what defines you. If people are so hanky about what other people believe that they have to obsess over it they should get a hobby tbh[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say it's the religion itself I have a problem with, but rather the institutional power it wields. People are free to follow their own beliefs if they choose to, but the second they begin to proselytize, to get their religion involved in politics, to force their beliefs onto others (that includes forcing children into degrading acts) is when they start having a negative impact on society.