Drivers could be paid 'up to £2,000 to scrap diesels' - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]Owners of older diesel cars could be paid toscrap them under government plans to tackle pollution, according to newspaper reports. A diesel scrappage scheme would be part ofa new strategy to improve air quality after Europe said UK proposals did not go far enough. The reports said ministers may opt for a scheme that pays drivers up to £2,000 towards a new, cleaner car. However, it is likely to be restricted to certaindrivers to minimise costs. Options could include limiting payments to owners living in the areas suffering the worstpollution, or those on low incomes. The scheme is expected to be announced in the coming days. ... The UK had almost 12,000 premature deathslinked to nitrogen dioxide in 2013, according to the European Environment Agency. That was the second-highest total in Europe after Italy.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39620084[/url] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Not politics again" - Bengley))[/highlight]

scrapping them is only going to do more enviroharm. Did Cash4Clunkers not teach anyone anything? If their goal is to get diesels off their roads drop the ridiculously oversized petrol tax that drives people over to diesels in the first place.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52116517]scrapping them is only going to do more enviroharm. Did Cash4Clunkers not teach anyone anything? If their goal is to get diesels off their roads drop the ridiculously oversized petrol tax that drives people over to diesels in the first place.[/QUOTE] yes great but these old diesels pumping out excessive levels of nox are actually killing people

[QUOTE=codenamecueball;52116551]yes great but these old diesels pumping out excessive levels of nox are actually killing people[/QUOTE] Shame they're a lot more reliable than modern trash so a lot of people who want less hassle and more mpg buy a old diesel lmao.

2,000k per car? I imagine use car lots will sell up quickly but people buying newer cars not so much. [QUOTE=codenamecueball;52116551]yes great but these old diesels pumping out excessive levels of nox are actually killing people[/QUOTE] Hang on. Didn't most of the newer ones fail the ratings recently?

[QUOTE=Sims_doc;52116642]2,000k per car? I imagine use car lots will sell up quickly but people buying newer cars not so much. Hang on. Didn't most of the newer ones fail the ratings recently?[/QUOTE] Yeah honestly who do they expect to buy a new car for ~$4000. Thats not even enough for a down payment on most cars here in the states. Just like cash4clunkers here, all this will do is drive up used car prices.

When they say old diesels, they mean super old cars that arr worth almost nothing now right?

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52116659]When they say old diesels, they mean super old cars that arr worth almost nothing now right?[/QUOTE] they probably mean cars that are from early 2000s and back £2,000 certainly doesn't seem close to enough for a new car and it also doesn't seem like you could get a used car that has better emissions for that much

Like I will get rid of the only decent car we have. Some people are stuck in the rut of having to get a shit car or an old diesel because people need to get to work and can't afford something new, clean and decent.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52116517]scrapping them is only going to do more enviroharm. Did Cash4Clunkers not teach anyone anything? If their goal is to get diesels off their roads drop the ridiculously oversized petrol tax that drives people over to diesels in the first place.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Thomo_UK;52116682]Like I will get rid of the only decent car we have. Some people are stuck in the rut of having to get a shit car or an old diesel because people need to get to work and can't afford something new, clean and decent.[/QUOTE] Yeah, offering people a (relatively) measly £2000 for their (cheaper to run) cars which may have ultimately cost closer to £10,000 isn't necessarily the best solution to use by itself, particularly when between insurance, maintenance and the cost of a car by itself you're already in the red. Reducing tax on petrol would go a long way towards encouraging peopld to shift as well as helping those who are in a lower income bracket (working class families who rely on cars, for example). [QUOTE=Morgen;52115685][highlight](User was banned for this post ("Not politics again" - Bengley))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Was a ban necessary? From some perspectives this could be a political matter. [highlight](User was unnecessarily banned for this post ("Backseat moderating" - Bengley))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=GordonZombie;52116686]Was a ban necessary? From some perspectives this could be a political matter.[/QUOTE] Uh, wouldn't that be exactly why he was banned? This is SH, not Polidicks. I mean I disagree with whatever definition of "politics" is being used in this case but if "this could be a political matter" then the ban would be justified.

[QUOTE=gk99;52117142]Uh, wouldn't that be exactly why he was banned? This is SH, not Polidicks. I mean I disagree with whatever definition of "politics" is being used in this case but if "this could be a political matter" then the ban would be justified.[/QUOTE] He was banned because he posted it in Polidicks at first. It was later moved to SH.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52116517]scrapping them is only going to do more enviroharm. Did Cash4Clunkers not teach anyone anything? If their goal is to get diesels off their roads drop the ridiculously oversized petrol tax that drives people over to diesels in the first place.[/QUOTE] You are uninformed Diesel now generally costs more than petrol at the pump

[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;52117264]You are uninformed Diesel now generally costs more than petrol at the pump[/QUOTE] Diesel cars usually get better mpg though

[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;52117264]You are uninformed Diesel now generally costs more than petrol at the pump[/QUOTE] I think he was referring to road tax rather than fuel tax. Running diesel is still cheaper, the MPG difference offsets the price difference and the road tax is substantially cheaper than even a smaller petrol engine

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52117199]He was banned because he posted it in Polidicks at first. It was later moved to SH.[/QUOTE] But... it's a government scheme?

[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;52117264]You are uninformed Diesel now generally costs more than petrol at the pump[/QUOTE] Yep, but my diesel clunker costs me less than friends in petrol cars doing similar mileages to me because it is far, far more fuel efficient.

They'll probably tax the shit out of diesel in the future, if they're really actively looking to get them off the streets. [QUOTE=thelurker1234;52117490]But... it's a government scheme?[/QUOTE] Does that turn everything some government touches into a political issue now?

The goverment litterally advised, pushed and incentivised people into buying diesel cars in the first place, and now the people who are getting screwed over by this are the those who cannot afford to buy another car. It's a fucking joke that that they havent established a refund scheme already.

[QUOTE=cdr248;52117289]Diesel cars usually get better mpg though[/QUOTE] On average you have to do over 12,000 miles a year to warrant having a diesel when it comes to overall costs.

[QUOTE=PyroCF;52117635]On average you have to do over 12,000 miles a year to warrant having a diesel when it comes to overall costs.[/QUOTE] Source?

[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;52117264]You are uninformed Diesel now generally costs more than petrol at the pump[/QUOTE] Doesn't matter what the per-liter cost is if it costs less over a year to run a diesel car than it does a gasoline car due to the inherent fuel economy the diesel car has. Even now, when gas in London prices out at about $5.50/gal(Googled it while making this post), the option is there to massively incentivise people through lowing petrol taxes. Another source for UK fuel prices...I'm grabbing numbers for London, so it's probably cheaper farther out in the countryside...puts diesel at an average of 122p per liter, where gas is 120p per liter.[url=https://www.petrolprices.com/members-search.html?search=London%2C+United+Kingdom&latlng=51.5073509%2C-0.12775829999998223&membersearch=London%2C+United+Kingdom&lf=&g-recaptcha-response=03AOP2lf4sBoylT_Et_3Fbl3n0TJjk1cXhcWxfp_vZsmvxZkEkOONN5lnqWqEoClm3tcasohl0gH6VeRLuKN-tEzG88OYZCwx6l8RJFvzldgk-VEKgTxQeUU_rU1rF7W2Y6Yp69iYfM1GTY7PqLRG85KGqg4F0NZ3zQI6iMa9S9j5nXrAsMt9wKN5s1CBoBf70Ra1bdnIUOe7qWDBFS4shHkmx5xL9l5K3Utafc84Q0Qmit4as84WgZnY1S4PrnswG3vrjE_3Og2Th50vRxcU3EsRKTBHmHXxxGsf72RhaJEo9deajy_TDtL-iwmqjkWhFSTR5GdxUZRVmBHWHh3o0pVYZgQ7YZ2s0jm4OGsDjYVGWNM0PSmZioFeGyS1uERTrQW8oRX3zoaxXtnGvRSvtt0dHG8NVHX_3sN3ymlimDt0cs7uIsi9szW0&fueltype=5&search_radius=5][Source][/url] With the prices being that close...effectively the same...it's no surprise Brits are going for diesels right now. De-tax petrol until it's down to about 40 or 50p/liter and you'll see people practically trip over themselves to get rid of diesel cars. When the price disparity is that large it really doesn't matter if the diesel car goes 30% further per gallon of gas, it's still way cheaper to drive a gas powered car rather than a diesel one. It would also stimulate the economy. People would have more money in their pocket, it'd be significantly cheaper to travel, so they're more likely and more able to buy shit.

[QUOTE=nikomo;52117546]They'll probably tax the shit out of diesel in the future, if they're really actively looking to get them off the streets. Does that turn everything some government touches into a political issue now?[/QUOTE] Not always. But I think news of a specific government initiative regarding environmental policy would count yes? Although if you want to reply to this further we should probably take it to forums discussion, not here.

I wonder if someone will do something similar to the faux-shotguns sold to gun buybacks. I mean what exactly is a car by legal definition in the UK? Could someone plausibly just build a car with cheap throwaway diesel engines, some bicycle wheels, and build the rest from wood and plastic jugs? [url=http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Go-KartDune-Buggy/]I mean sites like Instructables have guides on how to make diesel dune buggys[/url].

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52117880]I wonder if someone will do something similar to the faux-shotguns sold to gun buybacks. I mean what exactly is a car by legal definition in the UK? Could someone plausibly just build a car with cheap throwaway diesel engines, some bicycle wheels, and build the rest from wood and plastic jugs? [url=http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Go-KartDune-Buggy/]I mean sites like Instructables have guides on how to make diesel dune buggys[/url].[/QUOTE] That is a non-point. I imagine that an eligible car would have a VIN and have previously been registered with whatever the UK's road and motor authority is. [editline]18th April 2017[/editline] Even then, UK laws tend to have catch-all provisions, are principles-based rather than rules-based and things like that, which doesn't happen often in the US, so it won't be a problem.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52117880]I wonder if someone will do something similar to the faux-shotguns sold to gun buybacks. I mean what exactly is a car by legal definition in the UK? Could someone plausibly just build a car with cheap throwaway diesel engines, some bicycle wheels, and build the rest from wood and plastic jugs? [url=http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Go-KartDune-Buggy/]I mean sites like Instructables have guides on how to make diesel dune buggys[/url].[/QUOTE] I imagine it'll be along the lines of "cars registered from 1990-2010 and are pre Euro 5", so sticking an old 1.9 PD lump into a shopping trolley and registering it on a Q plate won't work

[QUOTE=TestECull;52117745]Doesn't matter what the per-liter cost is if it costs less over a year to run a diesel car than it does a gasoline car due to the inherent fuel economy the diesel car has. Even now, when gas in London prices out at about $5.50/gal(Googled it while making this post), the option is there to massively incentivise people through lowing petrol taxes. Another source for UK fuel prices...I'm grabbing numbers for London, so it's probably cheaper farther out in the countryside...puts diesel at an average of 122p per liter, where gas is 120p per liter.[url=https://www.petrolprices.com/members-search.html?search=London%2C+United+Kingdom&latlng=51.5073509%2C-0.12775829999998223&membersearch=London%2C+United+Kingdom&lf=&g-recaptcha-response=03AOP2lf4sBoylT_Et_3Fbl3n0TJjk1cXhcWxfp_vZsmvxZkEkOONN5lnqWqEoClm3tcasohl0gH6VeRLuKN-tEzG88OYZCwx6l8RJFvzldgk-VEKgTxQeUU_rU1rF7W2Y6Yp69iYfM1GTY7PqLRG85KGqg4F0NZ3zQI6iMa9S9j5nXrAsMt9wKN5s1CBoBf70Ra1bdnIUOe7qWDBFS4shHkmx5xL9l5K3Utafc84Q0Qmit4as84WgZnY1S4PrnswG3vrjE_3Og2Th50vRxcU3EsRKTBHmHXxxGsf72RhaJEo9deajy_TDtL-iwmqjkWhFSTR5GdxUZRVmBHWHh3o0pVYZgQ7YZ2s0jm4OGsDjYVGWNM0PSmZioFeGyS1uERTrQW8oRX3zoaxXtnGvRSvtt0dHG8NVHX_3sN3ymlimDt0cs7uIsi9szW0&fueltype=5&search_radius=5][Source][/url] With the prices being that close...effectively the same...it's no surprise Brits are going for diesels right now. De-tax petrol until it's down to about 40 or 50p/liter and you'll see people practically trip over themselves to get rid of diesel cars. When the price disparity is that large it really doesn't matter if the diesel car goes 30% further per gallon of gas, it's still way cheaper to drive a gas powered car rather than a diesel one. It would also stimulate the economy. People would have more money in their pocket, it'd be significantly cheaper to travel, so they're more likely and more able to buy shit.[/QUOTE] The rate new diesels are being purchased is actually going down quite significantly because of the whole diesel gate situation. Even in March which was the best month on record ever for new car sales diesel was only up 1.3% yoy, while petrol was up 13%, and EVs up 31%. This put the market to back over half of cars being petrol again. Even at 40p a litre it would still cost significantly more to run than an EV, and cost the government a lot of money. The money would be better used funding charging networks and implementing legislation for home chargers. When cheap EVs come in the next few years, and if there's tons of chargers around and people are aware of EVs then people will switch to an even cleaner alternative. Likely at a fraction of the cost of making petrol tax free as well. [editline]18th April 2017[/editline] In fact the UK charging network is pretty much good enough as it is. A few patch ups in some rural areas (peak District and Scottish Highlands) and your good to go. So the focus should really be on home chargers. They should standardise the charging networks though because it's a bit ridiculous having 10 apps and 5 different cards just in case you run into a chargers that requires it. After home charging they should work on the next gen ultra fast chargers

[QUOTE=Morgen;52120013]The rate new diesels are being purchased is actually going down quite significantly because of the whole diesel gate situation. Even in March which was the best month on record ever for new car sales diesel was only up 1.3% yoy, while petrol was up 13%, and EVs up 31%. This put the market to back over half of cars being petrol again. Even at 40p a litre it would still cost significantly more to run than an EV, and cost the government a lot of money. The money would be better used funding charging networks and implementing legislation for home chargers. When cheap EVs come in the next few years, and if there's tons of chargers around and people are aware of EVs then people will switch to an even cleaner alternative. Likely at a fraction of the cost of making petrol tax free as well. [editline]18th April 2017[/editline] In fact the UK charging network is pretty much good enough as it is. A few patch ups in some rural areas (peak District and Scottish Highlands) and your good to go. So the focus should really be on home chargers. They should standardise the charging networks though because it's a bit ridiculous having 10 apps and 5 different cards just in case you run into a chargers that requires it. After home charging they should work on the next gen ultra fast chargers[/QUOTE] Even a cheap EV is gonna be priced higher than the lower middle classes can afford, that being somewhere around 7-10k. Of course people will spend beyond their means, but realistically, it will be another ten, fifteen years before electric cars are truly affordae.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52120446]Even a cheap EV is gonna be priced higher than the lower middle classes can afford, that being somewhere around 7-10k. Of course people will spend beyond their means, but realistically, it will be another ten, fifteen years before electric cars are truly affordae.[/QUOTE] Maybe it will take awhile for EVs to get down to the ecobox price ranges but they should be competitive with most new cars by next year, and have long range capabilities. Old leafs and other mid range EVs will be cheap as chips though.

Cash4Clunkers ruined the used car market for over almost 5 years and wasted thousands and thousands of working automobiles. Throwing things away will never be better than recycling them, and that includes automobiles!