[video=youtube;lJFqvRwOiis]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJFqvRwOiis[/video]
[quote]The sheriff’s office says the enforcement of the full variety of pedestrian statutes is essential to keeping people alive in a city with one of the highest pedestrian fatality rates in the nation. The office also says the tickets are a useful crime-fighting tool, allowing officers to stop suspicious people and question them for guns and or drugs.
However, a ProPublica/Florida Times-Union analysis of five years of pedestrian tickets shows there is no strong relationship between where tickets are being issued and where people are being killed. The number of fatal crashes involving pedestrians, in fact, climbed every year from 2012 to 2016, the most recent years for which complete data is available.
What the analysis does show is that the pedestrian tickets — typically costing $65, but carrying the power to damage one’s credit or suspend a driver’s license if unpaid — were disproportionately issued to blacks, almost all of them in the city’s poorest neighborhoods. In the last five years, blacks received 55 percent of all pedestrian tickets in Jacksonville, while only accounting for 29 percent of the population. Blacks account for a higher percentage of tickets in Duval County than any other large county in Florida.[/quote]
[url]https://features.propublica.org/walking-while-black/jacksonville-pedestrian-violations-racial-profiling/[/url]
I thought this was an interesting article highlighting the disparity of how pedestrian tickets are given to whites and blacks.
You could argue that more blacks are given pedestrian tickets because more blacks do not own cars and therefore must walk, but the evidence presented in the video and article is still pretty damning to me.
I also believe that programs meant to educate pedestrians on crossing laws would significantly reduce accidents, one of the alleged goals of the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office.
For instance, when crossing the street for college, I feel pressured to jaywalk by other pedestrians. I've seen figures of authority jaywalk, and even my friends don't know proper crossing laws. To be honest, neither do I. I think if people simply knew the laws, they could cross safely.
Seems like they're doing it mostly for having a reason to search them.
Sweden's jaywalking law is weird, it specifically says that it's illegal to cross when red, but there is no penalty or fine for doing it so you can't be charged. However, you can be charged for causing a disturbance in traffic (if crossing when red).
I don't really see what the officer in the first section did wrong tho.
Well damn, with looking at just how worn down and washed out that crosswalk is on the street, I don't think I would have seen it either. The road is bleached light grey, and the white paint of the crosswalk is all but worn completely off.
[QUOTE=Cuel;52902666]Seems like they're doing it mostly for having a reason to search them.
Sweden's jaywalking law is weird, it specifically says that it's illegal to cross when red, but there is no penalty or fine for doing it so you can't be charged. However, you can be charged for causing a disturbance in traffic (if crossing when red).[/QUOTE]
It makes a lot of sense though, since it means you're not [i]supposed[/i] to do it, but you're basically allowed to as long as it doesn't cause problems.
It's basically unenforceable (and unreasonable in some cases), so if it had a penalty you'd just end up with the US situation where it's only enforced as an excuse.
[QUOTE=jonoPorter;52902675]I don't really see what the officer in the first section did wrong tho.[/QUOTE]
Guy seemed like he was unnecessarily being a cunt about it just because he could. "That's ANOTHER ticket I could detain you up to seven hours for that" honestly the arrogance in his tone is infuriating enough to want to slap him over the back of the head.
[QUOTE=GordonZombie;52902742]Guy seemed like he was unnecessarily being a cunt about it just because he could. "That's ANOTHER ticket I could detain you up to seven hours for that" honestly the arrogance in his tone is infuriating enough to want to slap him over the back of the head.[/QUOTE]
He was a cunt about it sure, and I understand that the guys why it felt it was necessary to film the ordeal in the current climate of the US, maybe that them feel safer, but if they did see you jaywalk, don't question the cop, he's right about getting pissed too. I'm not an expert on jaywalking laws in the US, but in my country, you can get a pretty big fucking fine if you get caught too, easily up to 60 dollars, and while you can't get a fine or anything like that for not carrying and ID, if the cops have a legit claim, they can detain you till they get some sort of ID, either they check their computer, or something. Honestly, the situation in the beginning seems like it was unnecessarily escalated by both parties. But I don't get why they're surprised that you can get stopped, ID'd and fined for jaywalking. It's the law. It's a fucking retarded law, but it's still the law
This is the kinda shit black people deal with all the time that white people pretend doesn't happen because they don't see it or experience it themselves.
I hope those cops then who were filmed jaywalking for this video get fined/detained too then.
[sp]Absolutely not going to happen[/sp]
[QUOTE=ZuXer;52902786]He was a cunt about it sure, and I understand that the guys why it felt it was necessary to film the ordeal in the current climate of the US, maybe that them feel safer, but if they did see you jaywalk, don't question the cop, he's right about getting pissed too. I'm not an expert on jaywalking laws in the US, but in my country, you can get a pretty big fucking fine if you get caught too, easily up to 60 dollars, and while you can't get a fine or anything like that for not carrying and ID, if the cops have a legit claim, they can detain you till they get some sort of ID, either they check their computer, or something. Honestly, the situation in the beginning seems like it was unnecessarily escalated by both parties. But I don't get why they're surprised that you can get stopped, ID'd and fined for jaywalking. It's the law. It's a fucking retarded law, but it's still the law[/QUOTE]
Jaywalking is sort of an antiquated law by US standards. I do what could probably be qualified as jaywalking literally all the time, so does everyone else, and almost nobody gets shit for it. As discussed in the video, the law is being used in a shit way to fuck with black people.
[QUOTE=ZuXer;52902786]He was a cunt about it sure, and I understand that the guys why it felt it was necessary to film the ordeal in the current climate of the US, maybe that them feel safer, but if they did see you jaywalk, don't question the cop, he's right about getting pissed too. I'm not an expert on jaywalking laws in the US, but in my country, you can get a pretty big fucking fine if you get caught too, easily up to 60 dollars, and while you can't get a fine or anything like that for not carrying and ID, if the cops have a legit claim, they can detain you till they get some sort of ID, either they check their computer, or something. Honestly, the situation in the beginning seems like it was unnecessarily escalated by both parties. But I don't get why they're surprised that you can get stopped, ID'd and fined for jaywalking. It's the law. It's a fucking retarded law, but it's still the law[/QUOTE]
My point was that just because he could didn't mean he should have been like that with them.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52902801]This is the kinda shit black people deal with all the time that white people pretend doesn't happen because they don't see it or experience it themselves.[/QUOTE]
I actually saw one white dude saying it wasn't a problem for black people because he was once stopped by cops because some kid claimed someone showed them a knife and he fit the description. :huh:
[QUOTE]The office also says the tickets are a useful crime-fighting tool, allowing officers to stop suspicious people and question them for guns and or drugs.[/QUOTE]
So basically implementing stop and frisk? Nice.
Hope they get fucked by a class action lawsuit.
[QUOTE=Cuel;52902666]Seems like they're doing it mostly for having a reason to search them.
Sweden's jaywalking law is weird, it specifically says that it's illegal to cross when red, but there is no penalty or fine for doing it so you can't be charged. However, you can be charged for causing a disturbance in traffic (if crossing when red).[/QUOTE]
So effectively jaywalking is only a crime if it disturbs traffic? That sounds great.
What the fuck? This shouldn't be a fucking thing...
[QUOTE]In the last five years, blacks received 55 percent of all pedestrian tickets in Jacksonville, while only accounting for 29 percent of the population. Blacks account for a higher percentage of tickets in Duval County than any other large county in Florida.[/QUOTE]
Nevermind, it's Florida being a racist shithole as always.
$65 dollar for not waiting on the red light, damn those punishments are high. (Not sure if it was higher for apparently not sticking to the crossroad markings)
It is 5€ in Germany for ignoring the red light as a pedestrian, (10€ if it caused an accident) but it is not even enforced most of the time.
Jaywalking isn't a crime here either as long as there isnt a marked crossing nearby, nor is missing your ID. (Although that still gets troublesome as you have to ID you somehow, if close by escorted home or to police station.)
I would love to see more data and the rest of the data also the presentation was bit weird.
Interesting would be the other 45% to see how many of those were also not white. Would have helped to show how they might just target non whites in general.
Other places would probably be also interesting, to answer the question if Jacksonville is just an outliner or if this happens in the majority of places in the US.
This is purely a moneymaking tool for the department and has nothing to do with actually protecting people. And naturally they're only going to ticket the powerless (poor and minorities.) This is what people mean when they say there's systemic problems in our policing. It's been turned into a numbers driven business like any other.
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