Bitcoin Stands as a Potential Environmental Nightmare for Countering Global Warming - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]Today, each bitcoin transaction requires the same amount of energy used to power nine homes in the U.S. for one day. And miners are constantly installing more and faster computers. Already, the aggregate computing power of the bitcoin network is nearly 100,000 times larger than the world’s 500 fastest supercomputers combined. The total energy use of this web of hardware is huge — an estimated 31 terawatt-hours per year. More than 150 individual countries in the world consume less energy annually. And that power-hungry network is currently increasing its energy use every day by about 450 gigawatt-hours, roughly the same amount of electricity the entire country of Haiti uses in a year. That sort of electricity use is pulling energy from grids all over the world, where it could be charging electric vehicles and powering homes, to bitcoin-mining farms. In Venezuela, where rampant hyperinflation and subsidized electricity has led to a boom in bitcoin mining, rogue operations are now occasionally causing blackouts across the country. The world’s largest bitcoin mines are in China, where they siphon energy from huge hydroelectric dams, some of the cheapest sources of carbon-free energy in the world. One enterprising Tesla owner even attempted to rig up a mining operation in his car, to make use of free electricity at a public charging station. In just a few months from now, at bitcoin’s current growth rate, the electricity demanded by the cryptocurrency network will start to outstrip what’s available, requiring new energy-generating plants. And with the climate conscious racing to replace fossil fuel-base plants with renewable energy sources, new stress on the grid means more facilities using dirty technologies. By July 2019, the bitcoin network will require more electricity than the entire United States currently uses. By February 2020, it will use as much electricity as the entire world does today.[/quote] [url]http://grist.org/article/bitcoin-could-cost-us-our-clean-energy-future/[/url] [url]https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/grist/[/url] [img]https://i0.wp.com/mediabiasfactcheck.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/leftcenter04.png?w=600&ssl=1[/img] Factual Reporting: HIGH

While that's absolutely ridiculous, I still wouldn't blame bitcoins for this entirely. If it weren't for our reliance on energy that's harmful to the environment, this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Still, holy shit that's insane. And it's only going to get worse as the payout for mining BTC gets less and less.

Huh, thats pretty amazing to think that so much energy is being used up by computers basically crunching useless numbers. Imagine if the blockchain had been built around doing useful work like genome sequencing, what could have been done by now.

Am I missing something? This line makes no sense: [quote="OP"]And with the climate conscious racing to replace fossil fuel-base plants with renewable energy sources, new stress on the grid means more facilities using dirty technologies.[/quote] Why would we be suddenly forced to exclusively use dirty technologies as an energy source? There's no reason we can't (and no reason to think we wouldn't) build more renewable energy sources to supplement these higher energy costs. Like, yes, dirty technologies aren't going to be exclusively replaced by 2020, so they will also probably still be getting built during that time as well, but the world as a whole is gradually moving away from dirty technologies and towards renewable energy. I don't see any rhyme or reason as to why BtC would change that.

I cant wait for nuclear powered bitcoin factories We are living in the future

[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;52952554]Am I missing something? This line makes no sense: Why would we be suddenly forced to exclusively use dirty technologies as an energy source? There's no reason we can't (and no reason to think we wouldn't) build more renewable energy sources to supplement these higher energy costs. Like, yes, dirty technologies aren't going to be exclusively replaced by 2020, so they will also probably still be getting built during that time as well, but the world as a whole is gradually moving away from dirty technologies and towards renewable energy. I don't see any rhyme or reason as to why BtC would change that.[/QUOTE] That type of rapidly ballooning energy demand just realistically can't be met with renewable energy. As they said, in less than a decade, if current trends continue, BTC will take more energy than literally everything else. And as BTC gets more highly valued, less expensive dirty energy will be easier to justify. I myself doubt it'll ever get to that point, but I can see the logic.

[QUOTE=Birdman101;52952553]Huh, thats pretty amazing to think that so much energy is being used up by computers basically crunching useless numbers. Imagine if the blockchain had been built around doing useful work like genome sequencing, what could have been done by now.[/QUOTE] ~CaPiTaLiSm~

[QUOTE]Already, the aggregate computing power of the bitcoin network is nearly 100,000 times larger than the world’s 500 fastest supercomputers combined. [/QUOTE] jesus fuck

[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;52952566]That type of rapidly ballooning energy demand just realistically can't be met with renewable energy. As they said, in less than a decade, if current trends continue, BTC will take more energy than literally everything else. And as BTC gets more highly valued, less expensive dirty energy will be easier to justify. I myself doubt it'll ever get to that point, but I can see the logic.[/QUOTE] I just find it hard to believe that it will get to the point that your average consumer is going to be running BtC mining equipment which drains a [B]ton[/B] of energy for long enough to produce this kind of a impact, especially in three years. I also don't expect this rate of growth that BtC is experiencing right now to last more than a year either. A lot of it is centered around media hype, etc. Don't get me wrong, it'll probably still continue to grow in price, but as far as energy demands go I can't see it realistically "using as much electricity as the entire world does today" in as little as three years.

[QUOTE=Birdman101;52952553]Huh, thats pretty amazing to think that so much energy is being used up by computers basically crunching useless numbers. Imagine if the blockchain had been built around doing useful work like genome sequencing, what could have been done by now.[/QUOTE] Aren't there cryptocurrencies that do just that?

If you install a miner it should force you to install and run SETI@home in tandem, let's find aliens while we waste energy in pursuit of a digital currency.

To me, this looks like grounds for regulation. BTC and likely all crypto currencies WILL become regulated very soon. And articles like this are what is going to bring awareness to the public, senate and also to the media, which will in turn demand regulation.

[Quote]By July 2019, the bitcoin network will require more electricity than the entire United States currently uses. By February 2020, it will use as much electricity as the entire world does today.[/quote] This proposes linear growth. I don't know much about that, is that even likely? It's also ignoring that GPU manufacturers are releasing specialized cards for mining which are more efficient at that specific task.

There are other crypto implementations that avoid this. [url]https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/08/chia-network-cryptocurrency/[/url] Also, listing energy cost per transaction isn't a good metric - Transactions aren't what's increasing the cost. Changes to the Bitcoin protocol can also fix this; the lightning network would substantially improve the situation and doesn't even require consent from Bitcoin developers. tl;dr not a long term environmental issue. Bitcoin protocol will either adapt to be less energy intensive or a cryptocurrency that is already more eco-friendly will take it's place. [editline]6th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=DiBBs27;52952589]To me, this looks like grounds for regulation. BTC and likely all crypto currencies WILL become regulated very soon.[/QUOTE] Do you know how cryptocurrencies work? How financial institutions hold cryptocurrencies will likely be regulated, but individual ownership/transactions will be all but impossible to completely regulate.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;52952588]If you install a miner it should force you to install and run SETI@home in tandem, let's find aliens while we waste energy in pursuit of a digital currency.[/QUOTE] That's a funny way to spell hentai@home.

[img]https://powercompare.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/bitcoin-mining-vs-world.png[/img] Who would win? My decently industrialized country with 9 million people or one decentralized boi

[QUOTE=Lone Wolf807;52952591]This proposes linear growth. I don't know much about that, is that even likely? It's also ignoring that GPU manufacturers are releasing specialized cards for mining which are more efficient at that specific task.[/QUOTE] Being more efficient is the opposite of what bitcoin wants. If you can more efficiently forge the blockchain then you will ruin everything. The only way to truly solve this issue is to switch to something other than proof of work. Chia is a cryptocurrency which uses proof of space and proof of time together to make forgery infeasible [URL]https://chia.network/[/URL] but wasteful computations are not needed. [QUOTE=Harbie;52952604]There are other crypto implementations that avoid this. [URL]https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/08/chia-network-cryptocurrency/[/URL] Also, listing energy cost per transaction isn't a good metric - Transactions aren't what's increasing the cost. Changes to the Bitcoin protocol can also fix this; the lightning network would substantially improve the situation and doesn't even require consent from Bitcoin developers. tl;dr not a long term environmental issue. Bitcoin protocol will either adapt to be less energy intensive or a cryptocurrency that is already more eco-friendly will take it's place. [/QUOTE] Lightning network isn't going to fix the problem. It just makes it faster and cheaper to send small transactions, but the final tab is still written to the blockchain. Right now fees are so high that no one uses bitcoin for small transactions anymore (see: steam). If theres a way for people to spend small amounts of bitcoin chances are there will end up being MORE transactions on the blockchain, albeit less than there would be if people used the blockchain for those small transactions. [editline]6th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Birdman101;52952553]Huh, thats pretty amazing to think that so much energy is being used up by computers basically crunching useless numbers. Imagine if the blockchain had been built around doing useful work like genome sequencing, what could have been done by now.[/QUOTE] You can't use anti-spam algorithms to calculate useful things like genome sequencing because the solution needs to be fast to check or you need to know the answer already, which would invalidate the method.

[QUOTE=Harbie;52952604] Do you know how cryptocurrencies work? How financial institutions hold cryptocurrencies will likely be regulated, but individual ownership/transactions will be all but impossible to completely regulate.[/QUOTE] Thats pretty short sighted. Name me one thing that man has created that hasn't been regulated in some capacity by the government? Furthermore, anything that operates online can be regulated on a per user basis, all they need are laws.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52952673]Thats pretty short sighted. Name me one thing that man has created that hasn't been regulated in some capacity by the government? Furthermore, anything that operates online can be regulated on a per user basis, all they need are laws.[/QUOTE] I really don't think you understand how cryptocurrency works. You can try to regulate it, but one of the key features is how easy people can start and switch over to other cryptocurrencies in case of such issues. You can't solve every problem with a law on the books with such a decentralized currency based on the internet.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52952673]Thats pretty short sighted. Name me one thing that man has created that hasn't been regulated in some capacity by the government? Furthermore, anything that operates online can be regulated on a per user basis, all they need are laws.[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand how public/private key encryption works. And for an example: strong encryption, the very thing Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies are based on. [url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States[/url] The US tried to regulate it, but it's laughable attempt. It's essentially the government telling you you can't use a widely available and easy to implement piece of code. I implemented AES-256 for a college project from scratch in a couple of weeks. The only way for the government to stop someone from doing that would be to find and destroy every copy of the AES specification (guess what, they can't) or to install software on every single piece of hardware in the country that detects encryption and stops it (untenable, and even if we were living in the sort of Orwellian state that would do that it'd likely be trivial to obfuscate the algorithm. If you meant "The US will try to regulate blockchain technology but the regulations will be ignored/unenforceable." then I may agree with you.

You can regulate it by controlling what it is worth and controlling the technology. The first step is to put btc into the stock market. Which is what we are now seeing. All I'm saying is if you think this technology is untouchable, it isn't.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52952697]You can regulate it by controlling what it is worth and controlling the technology. The first step is to put btc into the stock market. Which is what we are now seeing. All I'm saying is if you think this technology is untouchable, it isn't.[/QUOTE] Literally what I said. [QUOTE] How financial institutions hold cryptocurrencies will likely be regulated, but individual ownership/transactions will be all but impossible to completely regulate. [/QUOTE] The SEC will likely regulate how financial institutions hold cryptocurrencies (A good thing, IMO, makes it safer as a pure investment) but there's fucking nothing they can do to stop an individual from conducting a transfer of cryptocurrencies from one person to another unless they break public/private key cryptography. And if public/private key cryptography is breakable, then our entirety financial and communication networks are compromised, not just cryptocurrencies. Should add you've demonstrated no knowledge about cryptography. Do you have a good handle on how transactions are conducted on the blockchain?

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;52952588]If you install a miner it should force you to install and run SETI@home in tandem, let's find aliens while we waste energy in pursuit of a digital currency.[/QUOTE] Could you imagine trying to explain this to an alien.

The network theoretically should readjust difficulty if hashrates drop enough over a sufficient period of time that mining would become easier and less energy intensive, but the Chinese farms and global pools are obviously not interested in doing that, preferring to just slap more and more increasingly powerful hardware on top of existing farms to just increase hashrates.

I'm curious how much actual environmental impact when you adjust for the fact that a bitcoin mining rig just kind of adds to your household heating. I mean, watt for watt, your PC is just a smart heater. If I want my house to stay at 70 degrees in the winter and I have a bitcoin miner and heater going, the heater is going to be working slightly less than it would without the miner because the miner is generating heat as well. At least for household setups like this in winter, I think it equalizes out.

[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;52952969]I'm curious how much actual environmental impact when you adjust for the fact that a bitcoin mining rig just kind of adds to your household heating. I mean, watt for watt, your PC is just a smart heater. If I want my house to stay at 70 degrees in the winter and I have a bitcoin miner and heater going, the heater is going to be working slightly less than it would without the miner because the miner is generating heat as well. At least for household setups like this in winter, I think it equalizes out.[/QUOTE] Crypto miners living in cold regions actually save on costs this way. Their rigs just heat up their homes all year round.

But dirty energy costs money! Smart miners are going to use hydro/solar to power their rigs and not have to pay for energy. I saw a thread where a guy used the flowing water from a creek near his house to power all his rigs. Free energy lol.

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;52952815]Could you imagine trying to explain this to an alien.[/QUOTE] "Our system of life revolves around trying to find a place in the world where we are effective, yet what we receive in return is not equivalent to what is put in the vast majority of the time. Therefore, we reached into the depths of technology to seek the answer we were looking for. That answer, came in the form of Bitcoin."

Imagine what the guy, or the group of people, who invented bitcoin incognito must feel like. Yes, you've changed the world, and has basically impacted the lives of millions of people, all while no one know who you are and you can enjoy your life in secrecy. But all this stuff you couldn't possibly foresee happens and so much stuff gets fucked up because your little revolution went too far, and it makes you wonder, at least a little bit, if it would be better for everybody if you've just stayed at home and played some videogames.

[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;52952587]Aren't there cryptocurrencies that do just that?[/QUOTE] They're not as valuable as bitcoin so nobody cares. :/