ISIS Fighters, Having Pledged to Fight or Die, Surrender en Masse in Hawija, Iraq - Sensationalist Headlines

[t]https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/10/08/world/08Isis4/02iraq5-superJumbo.jpg[/t] [QUOTE]DIBIS, Iraq — The prisoners were taken to a waiting room in groups of four, and were told to stand facing the concrete wall, their noses almost touching it, their hands bound behind their backs. More than a thousand Islamic State fighters passed through that room this past week after they fled their [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/world/middleeast/iraq-hawija-isis.html"]crumbling Iraqi stronghold of Hawija[/URL]. Instead of the martyrdom they had boasted was their only acceptable fate, they had voluntarily ended up here in the interrogation center of the Kurdish authorities in northern Iraq. For an extremist group that has made its reputation on its ferociousness, with fighters who would always choose suicide over surrender, the fall of Hawija has been a notable turning point. The group has suffered a string of humiliating defeats in Iraq and Syria, but the number of its shock troops who turned themselves in to Kurdish officials at the center in Dibis was unusually large, more than 1,000 since last Sunday. The fight for Mosul, Iraq’s second-largest city, took nine months, and by comparison, relatively few Islamic State fighters surrendered. [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/31/world/asia/iraq-isis-tal-afar-abadi.html"] Tal Afar[/URL] fell next, and more quickly, in only 11 days. Some 500 fighters surrendered there. The Iraqi military ousted the Islamic State, also known as ISIS and ISIL, from Hawija in 15 days, saying it had taken its forces only three days of actual heavy fighting before most of the extremists grabbed their families and ran. According to Kurdish officials, they put up no fight at all, other than planting bombs and booby traps. Seen up close, the fighters’ pretense of bravado soon disappears. Their shoes were taken from them, their pockets emptied and their belts discarded, and, as they stood facing the wall, the backs of their dishdashas were stained with the evidence that some of them had not been to a toilet in days. One of the men smelled so bad that when he was taken into the small interrogation room, those inside were startled. He filled the doorway, appearing even larger than his actual size. The interrogator unbuckled his hip holster, resting his right hand on his pistol. Everyone in the room seemed scared of the man, even though his hands were tied behind his back. His thick black hair was Medusa-wild and shoulder-length, though his handsome face had only a wisp of black stubble on the chin. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Many of the fighters claimed [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/01/world/middleeast/iraq-islamic-state-kurdistan.html"] to have been just cooks[/URL] or clerks. So many said they had been members of the Islamic State for only a month or two that interrogators suspected they had been coached to say that. Gone was the contempt for the world’s opinion, spewed out in one violent video after another — many of them made in Hawija, where grisly killings, especially of Kurdish prisoners, were the norm during their three-year reign over that Sunni Arab city in northern Iraq. Most of the prisoners, though, claimed to have never seen a beheading, or even heard of such a thing. At first, the beardless fighter seemed an exception, admitting defiantly that he had been fighting for the group for two years, alongside family members. He readily gave his name: “Maytham Muhammed Mohemin,” he said, practically spitting it out. His hands were bound behind his back and he was effectively sitting on them, forced back into a red plastic lawn chair, yet the three Kurdish officers in the room kept more than an arm’s length away in case he lunged for their weapons. During the interview, he grew nervous. He said he was from Hawija and had joined the Islamic State because he believed in its cause, because his elder brother had, and because the $100 a month pay was better than anything else around. He had arrived in Dibis on Thursday afternoon with eight companions, seven Iraqis and an Egyptian, after they dropped their weapons in Hawija that morning. Since the beginning of the Iraqi offensive two weeks earlier, they had spent most of the time burrowed in foxholes to escape the relentless American bombing and shelling by advancing Iraqi forces, and had passed days without sanitary facilities or food. Finally, the Islamic State wali, or governor of Hawija, told the men to turn themselves in to the Kurdish forces, known as the pesh merga, and to flee the advancing Iraqi Army and its Shiite militia allies, the Iranian-trained [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/world/middleeast/iraq-tikrit-isis.html"]Hashed al-Shaabi[/URL], notorious for killing not only Islamic State prisoners but also their entire families. “The governor told us each to ‘solve your own problem and find your own solution for yourself,’ ” Mr. Mohemin said. “He said, ‘Go to the pesh merga, not to the Hashed.’ ” Mr. Mohemin denied ever attending a beheading but later, prompted by an Asayish intelligence officer, he admitted going to one, he said, because he had been ordered to. “I was scared,” he said. “I never saw anything like that in my life.” His prospects are grim. His pregnant wife had fled to Dibis a week before him, but it was unlikely he would see her or their expected child, their first, anytime soon. His elder brother was killed in combat. His father and little brother, one too old to pledge to the Islamic State and the other too young, had disappeared. The interrogator, Lt. Pisthiwan Salahi, said Mr. Mohemin was not only an Islamic State soldier but also a member of an elite suicide squad known as the Seekers of Martyrdom, according to informers. If convicted of that affiliation by an Asayish court, his sentence would be long; if he was connected to any killings, possibly lifelong. Mr. Mohemin’s narrative differed. “I was just a common soldier,” he said. “I never killed a civilian. I wasn’t even on the front line.” The lieutenant scoffed at him. “Well, twice I was on the front line, just for a day, but not against the Kurds,” Mr. Mohemin said. More scoffing. “Well once against the Kurds, but only shooting from a distance. I couldn’t see anyone.” Kurdish officials have been perplexed by the number of fighters who have surrendered. Many of the militants said they were ordered by their leaders to turn themselves in to the Kurds, who were known to take prisoners instead of killing them. But Capt. Ali Muhammed Syan, chief of the Asayish interrogators in Dibis, said even the fighters did not seem to know why their leaders were telling them to quit. “Maybe it’s some deal,” he said. “Maybe it’s just bad morale, I don’t know.” [/QUOTE] [URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/world/middleeast/isis-iraq-surrender.html[/URL]

Watching the IS state break down like this is incredibly fascinating.

[QUOTE=JDER14;52759655]Watching the IS state break down like this is incredibly fascinating.[/QUOTE] True. But in this age when the Middle East is stuck in such a volatile state, where Wahhabist sects continue to pop up like mushrooms, we can only wonder who the next major terror group will be called. And the best we can hope for is that they aren't as bad as ISIS. That, and that perhaps the Kurds might be able to bring some modicum of stability to the Middle East.

[QUOTE=ironman17;52759756]and that perhaps the Kurds might be able to bring some modicum of stability to the Middle East.[/QUOTE] Incredibly wishful thinking with how the countries there regard them.

I don't think the kurds are going to bring stability. I also seriously doubt the creation of a Kurdish state. Turkey and Syria and Iraq do not want this. But this does bring the questions of how the kurds will organize themselves. The Iraqi parliament rejected an independence vote by the Peshmerga recently citing the volatile situation in the country. This shows an eagerness (or impatience depending on who you ask) by the Kurds to fufill their dream. Creating and organizing a fully independent Kurdish state now could add even more fuel to the conflicts which complicates America's and Europe's support of the Kurds versus Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Russia (and also weakening any response these countries can bring against the next Wahhabist group that shows up). But at the same time the political situation is flexible enough that they possibly miss their chance if they don't act now and will be stone walled indefinitely which would probably just resume their guerilla war with the added benefit of all the support and supplies they have gained fighting this war. Overall I can't see the Kurds or even that entire region of the world stabilizing any time soon.

Sadly yes. And with the way things are, it would probably take over a century of consistent progressive reforms throughout the Middle East, purging old radical beliefs and raising children to follow a new doctrine of acceptance and unity, to even get close to truly stabilizing the region. And of course, "who's going to pay for all of this?" comes into play in more ways than mere money.

[QUOTE=JDER14;52759655]Watching the IS state break down like this is incredibly fascinating.[/QUOTE] I jus hope this isn't part of a plan though

[QUOTE=ironman17;52759756]True. But in this age when the Middle East is stuck in such a volatile state, where Wahhabist sects continue to pop up like mushrooms, we can only wonder who the next major terror group will be called. And the best we can hope for is that they aren't as bad as ISIS. That, and that perhaps the Kurds might be able to bring some modicum of stability to the Middle East.[/QUOTE] I honestly doubt we're going to see another ISIS. Besides the fact that the people there very much experienced ISIS and the war once (and most likely just want some form of stability at this point), the sides are much different. When the US left you had an Iraqi government that had effectively no power and a Syria in anarchy, which meant vast areas of the Middle East were effectively in anarchy, allowing ISIS to sweep through. Now we have the Kurds in the north (who probably won't get a state, but we'll see), the Syrian government, for better or for worse, reestablishing control and an Iranian puppet in Iraq moving from the east. There's still conflict, but all three sides are organized to a point I doubt we'll see another group just popping up. Iran will intervene to anything in the east, the Kurds don't own too much land and will most likely be able to control their zone, and the Syrian area has been retaken by the Syrians and is also so devastated I doubt it'll be fostering much revolution. Not to mention, a huge population of men who would rise up for these causes are either dead or imprisoned now, and the three groups have very strong reasons to want to make sure they don't go around declaring a Caliphate again, so I doubt extremist views like that will be tolerated in the open as easily, and if one group does pop up, the response will probably be much more sudden and focused, from them and the west. I'm sure we'll see continued conflict but I doubt we'll see it on the scale of ISIS any time soon.

We'll see. Especially if Russia has anything to say about it. But hopefully you'll be right. Hopefully things will be relatively quiet for the next few years, while we tear one-another to bloody ribbons.

I feel like selling former isis members into slavery would really help boost the middle eastern economy via cheaply produced crops, which would help promote stability. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Terrible Post" - Kiwi))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=A Sock Accnt;52760182]I feel like selling former isis members into slavery would really help boost the middle eastern economy via cheaply produced crops, which would help promote stability.[/QUOTE] There are so many things wrong with this.

[quote]He said he was from Hawija and had joined the Islamic State because he believed in its cause, because his elder brother had, and because the $100 a month pay was better than anything else around.[/quote] Just $100 a month?

[QUOTE=shad0w440;52760288]Just $100 a month?[/QUOTE] Not too bad when you've got nowhere to go and nothing to live for.

[QUOTE]Mr. Mohemin’s narrative differed. “I was just a common soldier,” he said. “I never killed a civilian. I wasn’t even on the front line.” The lieutenant scoffed at him. “Well, twice I was on the front line, just for a day, but not against the Kurds,” Mr. Mohemin said. More scoffing. “Well once against the Kurds, but only shooting from a distance. I couldn’t see anyone.” [/QUOTE] What a nice, yellow-bellied coward. I wonder how many of these shitbirds turn out to be cooks, too, in a feeble attempt to wriggle out of this.

[QUOTE=A Sock Accnt;52760182]I feel like selling former isis members into slavery would really help boost the middle eastern economy via cheaply produced crops, which would help promote stability.[/QUOTE] It's also super detrimental to the economy by depriving locals of jobs and goods. Also unethical on every fucking level.

[QUOTE=snookypookums;52760431]What a nice, yellow-bellied coward. I wonder how many of these shitbirds turn out to be cooks, too, in a feeble attempt to wriggle out of this.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/01/world/middleeast/iraq-islamic-state-kurdistan.html"]Too Many Cooks[/URL]

[QUOTE=JDER14;52759655]Watching the IS state break down like this is incredibly fascinating.[/QUOTE] the islamic state state? sorry

[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52760227]There are so many things wrong with this.[/QUOTE] Not that I support it, just to play the devil's avocado, the Allies did this after World War II to Germany albeit on a less severe basis and they were freed after a few years.

[QUOTE=Megadave;52760678]Not that I support it, just to play the devil's avocado, the Allies did this after World War II to Germany [B]albeit on a less severe basis and they were freed after a few years[/B].[/QUOTE] So not what he was suggesting. Why do people feel the need to play devil's advocate. Just, like, don't. Who needs to advocate for the muppet who suggested we enslave POWs.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52759807]I jus hope this isn't part of a plan though[/QUOTE] I wouldn't worry. While they are in custody they can be identified, photographed and fingerprinted. Much better than if they just escape and try to blend in with civilians.

IS is probably the most logistically equipped terror group in history so many clerks, cooks, drivers, farmers i seriously hope every single captured IS members gets face and fingerprint screened for global database it would be sad if those crimes captured on cameras would go unpunished

Honestly, considering the horrors this group has committed, I'm hopeful Iraqi intelligence will go through the files they captured in Mosul and separate anyone who joined of their own freewill, and those which were forcefully conscripted. Those which were conscripted get minor punishments, anyone who joined voluntarily should be executed. If we do not put a stop to ISIS with a hard-stop, their shitty cult will continue to rear it's ugly head every few years. They are a threat to stability in the region, and therefore need to be dealt with.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52760903]Honestly, considering the horrors this group has committed, I'm hopeful Iraqi intelligence will go through the files they captured in Mosul and separate anyone who joined of their own freewill, and those which were forcefully conscripted. Those which were conscripted get minor punishments, anyone who joined voluntarily should be executed. If we do not put a stop to ISIS with a hard-stop, their shitty cult will continue to rear it's ugly head every few years. They are a threat to stability in the region, and therefore need to be dealt with.[/QUOTE] Judging by the aftermath of Mosul, the Iraqis will happily execute anyone they merely suspect of being a member of ISIS. This usually means any "military aged males" left in the area. There were several reports of [URL="http://abcnews.go.com/International/watchdogs-iraqi-troops-beat-execute-mosul-prisoners-videos/story?id=48645312"]people being thrown off cliffs and shot[/URL] as well as [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/15/stream-of-floating-bodies-near-mosul-raises-fears-of-reprisals-by-iraqi-militias"]several bodies floating down the river.[/URL] It's not just the Shia militias doing this, but the government forces as well. [url]https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/30/iraq-new-abuse-execution-reports-men-fleeing-mosul[/url] [url]https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/07/27/iraq-us-trained-forces-linked-mosul-war-crimes[/url] There is a good reason why the ISIS leaders told them to surrender to the Kurds rather than to Iraqi forces.

[url]https://www.duffelblog.com/2016/03/isis-surrenders-after-reading-veterans-open-letter/[/url] Some dude wrote a letter which led to this event

[QUOTE=StrykerE;52760554][URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/01/world/middleeast/iraq-islamic-state-kurdistan.html"]Too Many Cooks[/URL][/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/army/comments/6sv0d7/fuck_cooks/?st=j8jqf6ez&sh=d1ebb7a6"]Fuck cooks[/URL] :v:

Hey wow it's almost like young, impressionable and hot-headed human beings are capable of talking themselves up and going on tirades about how they'll "die for their cause" only to realise, when confronted with [I]actual[/I] pain and death, that no, they'd quite like to stay alive and not die for something some old dude said once. Who'd have thought? Personally, I'm shocked and appalled.

[QUOTE=Ona;52761202]Hey wow it's almost like young, impressionable and hot-headed human beings are capable of talking themselves up and going on tirades about how they'll "die for their cause" only to realise, when confronted with [I]actual[/I] pain and death, that no, they'd quite like to stay alive and not die for something some old dude said once. Who'd have thought? Personally, I'm shocked and appalled.[/QUOTE] But they have no problem with hurting slaughtering and raping innocent people. It's only when they are caught do they say "oh no, I wasn't DIRECTLY involved, I just shot at people from a distance." or "I'm the cook" They only say these things because they know it can't be proved otherwise and it might get them off the hook.

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;52761652]But they have no problem with hurting slaughtering and raping innocent people. It's only when they are caught do they say "oh no, I wasn't DIRECTLY involved, I just shot at people from a distance." or "I'm the cook" They only say these things because they know it can't be proved otherwise and it might get them off the hook.[/QUOTE] I never said they were [I]good[/I] people. Just that they were people.

[QUOTE=A Sock Accnt;52760182]I feel like selling former isis members into slavery would really help boost the middle eastern economy via cheaply produced crops, which would help promote stability. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Terrible Post" - Kiwi))[/highlight][/QUOTE] It'll also promote slavery in general. Well done.

[QUOTE=snookypookums;52760431]What a nice, yellow-bellied coward. I wonder how many of these shitbirds turn out to be cooks, too, in a feeble attempt to wriggle out of this.[/QUOTE] He isn't saying he is a cook, he is saying he is a common soldier. Don't try to use a hyperbole because you know some people won't read the full quote. Yeah, they are all terrible people, but you're missing the fact that everything in the article indicates the Kurds are torturing them back. People will say fucking anything under torture if it gets it to stop. Also you know, that kind of makes us like them if we torture them?