The Satanic Temple Wins Abortion Court Case In Missouri
34 replies, posted
[QUOTE][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple]The Satanic Temple[/url] has been fighting a quiet battle in Missouri to protect a woman’s right to choose an abortion, claiming that any restriction on abortion violates their “sincerely held religious beliefs.”
Earlier this week, The Satanic Temple argued their case in front of the Missouri Supreme Court, and in so doing won a significant victory, even though the case has yet to be decided.
The victory: During oral arguments, Missouri’s Solicitor General announced to the State’s Supreme Court that ultrasounds are not mandatory to obtain an abortion.
Currently Missouri’s abortion providers regularly perform ultrasounds on all women seeking an abortion because they were mandated by the state. This admission by Missouri’s Solicitor General reverses that policy, and will relieve many women from the burden of going through a medically unnecessary and demeaning medical procedure.
[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2018/01/satanic-temple-wins-abortion-victory-missouri/#]Source[/url]
Other sites didn't catch up on the victory yet, though it's the best source I could find for now.
[QUOTE]This admission by Missouri’s Solicitor General reverses that policy, and will relieve many women from the burden of going through a medically unnecessary and demeaning medical procedure.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Satan!
Hah. Leave it to this bunch to abuse the very logic the christian right uses to fuck women over in order to un-fuck them. They're not the heroes we wanted, but they're the ones we need.
I swear I read somewhere that the satanic religions are actually in some parts more morally correct and more in line with current world beliefs than the "good non-evil" religions :v:
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;53081111]I swear I read somewhere that the satanic religions are actually in some parts more morally correct and more in line with current world beliefs than the "good non-evil" religions :v:[/QUOTE]
that's because it was written by people who weren't dickheads
TST is an activist group masquerading as a religion that uses the religious rights’ own logic and bullshit against them to ensure human rights and maintain separation of church and state. They really are the heroes that America needs.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;53081111]I swear I read somewhere that the satanic religions are actually in some parts more morally correct and more in line with current world beliefs than the "good non-evil" religions :v:[/QUOTE]
I think the lavey satanic bible is basically just a philosophy book that says in plain terms "live and let live", "don't be a dick", and "if someone's a dick to you all bets are off tho"
[QUOTE=dai;53081232]I think the lavey satanic bible is basically just a philosophy book that says in plain terms "live and let live", "don't be a dick", and "if someone's a dick to you all bets are off tho"[/QUOTE]
Speaking of LaVey satanism, it's important to note that they don't actually believe in the devil. It's pretty much just a symbol to them for how to live their lives.
It's also not cartoonishly evil like the media portrays it. At worst I'd say it just encourages selfishness.
[QUOTE=piddlezmcfuz;53081225]TST is an activist group masquerading as a religion that uses the religious rights’ own logic and bullshit against them to ensure human rights and maintain separation of church and state. They really are the heroes that America needs.[/QUOTE]
Tbh I think that there isn't a more amusing thing that using ones own devices and logic against them
TST did the same thing as quoting a post with the exact same post, just rewording it slightly, and using that as an argument, and it worked.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;53081111]I swear I read somewhere that the satanic religions are actually in some parts more morally correct and more in line with current world beliefs than the "good non-evil" religions :v:[/QUOTE]
Temple of Satanism
[quote]
There are seven fundamental tenets.
-One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
-The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
-One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
-The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own.
-Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
-People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and resolve any harm that may have been caused.
-Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word
[/quote]
LeVeyan Satanism
[quote]
The Eleven Rules of the Earth
-Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
-Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
-When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
-If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
-Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
-Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
-Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
-Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
-Do not harm little children.
-Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
-When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them[/quote]
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;53081240]Speaking of LaVey satanism, it's important to note that they don't actually believe in the devil. It's pretty much just a symbol to them for how to live their lives.
It's also not cartoonishly evil like the media portrays it. At worst I'd say it just encourages selfishness.[/QUOTE]
To be fair he does look cartoonishly like an evil 1300's wizard
[t]http://www.whale.to/b/lavey_32.gif[/t][t]https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/anton_lavey-hells_minister.jpg[/t][t]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kK6sItVnr7E/hqdefault.jpg[/t]
I do think he speaks against 'devil worshipping' though
[QUOTE=dai;53081232]I think the lavey satanic bible is basically just a philosophy book that says in plain terms "live and let live", "don't be a dick", and "if someone's a dick to you all bets are off tho"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;53081240]Speaking of LaVey satanism, it's important to note that they don't actually believe in the devil. It's pretty much just a symbol to them for how to live their lives.
It's also not cartoonishly evil like the media portrays it. At worst I'd say it just encourages selfishness.[/QUOTE]
The Satanic Temple, headed by Lucian Greaves, is a separate entity from LaVeyan Satanism (or The Church of Satan)
[QUOTE=piddlezmcfuz;53081225]TST is an activist group masquerading as a religion that uses the religious rights’ own logic and bullshit against them to ensure human rights and maintain separation of church and state. They really are the heroes that America needs.[/QUOTE]
Except they use the same modus operandi as other religions, meaning they are doing nothing to get religion out of politics, but actually actively contributing to religions in politics by being a religion getting into politics. If you're saying that separation of church and state is their goal, then they are defeating their own purpose.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53081280]Except they use the same modus operandi as other religions, meaning they are doing nothing to get religion out of politics, but actually actively contributing to religions in politics by being a religion getting into politics. If you're saying that separation of church and state is their goal, then they are defeating their own purpose.[/QUOTE]
By fighting state law that is influenced by Christian doctrine, they are reinforcing religion in law? How do you even come to that conclusion here?
They aren't trying to pass legislation pro-TST, they are trying to remove the religious-based laws already on the books.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53081280]Except they use the same modus operandi as other religions, meaning they are doing nothing to get religion out of politics, but actually actively contributing to religions in politics by being a religion getting into politics. If you're saying that separation of church and state is their goal, then they are defeating their own purpose.[/QUOTE]
It's more that they present the risk of allowing a ~spooky Satan church~ to get the same benefits as other organized religions, and because there is such a strong prevalence of religious belief in American politics, allowing this is unacceptable to conservative politicians. This is how they got a statue of the ten commandments [URL="https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/oklahoma-supreme-court-orders-removal/index.html"]removed from the Oklahoma state capito[/URL]l by pushing for the installation of a [URL="https://news.artnet.com/app/news-upload/2014/05/satan2.jpg"]Baphomet statue[/URL] to complement and contrast it.
They troll hard to point out the ways that religiously-influenced policy can backfire, and why it should be avoided in the first place.
[QUOTE=Revenge282;53081314]By fighting state law that is influenced by Christian doctrine, they are reinforcing religion in law? How do you even come to that conclusion here?
They aren't trying to pass legislation pro-TST, they are trying to remove the religious-based laws already on the books.[/QUOTE]
Because they are solidifying the tactics religions use to get their laws in the first place by using their status as a religion to fight it. By saying something "violates sincerely held religious beliefs", they are using the same tactics that christians use, therefore just solidifying the use of that logic in court. It's not getting that logic out of the system, it's farther entrenching it.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53081346]Because they are solidifying the tactics religions use to get their laws in the first place by using their status as a religion to fight it. By saying something "violates sincerely held religious beliefs", they are using the same tactics that christians use, therefore just solidifying the use of that logic in court. It's not getting that logic out of the system, it's farther entrenching it.[/QUOTE]
Hardly. They are using the same logic that Christian lawmakers used to favor Christian principles as a way to benefit something that Christianity would have labeled as polar opposite or opposing.
They aren't tackling non-religious items, only legislation that is crafted as a pro-Christian power play. It's about removing Christianity from law, they are in no way adding Satanism to it.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53081280]Except they use the same modus operandi as other religions, meaning they are doing nothing to get religion out of politics, but actually actively contributing to religions in politics by being a religion getting into politics. If you're saying that separation of church and state is their goal, then they are defeating their own purpose.[/QUOTE]
the way ive heard it is that they are less of a religion than an organization dedicated to testing religious legislation against the so called "lemon test". this is a good thing.
[editline]25th January 2018[/editline]
aka posing as a religion is advantageous for their purpose.
[QUOTE=gbtygfvyg;53081245]Temple of Satanism
LeVeyan Satanism[/QUOTE]
[quote=LaVeyan Satanism]-When walking in open territory, bother no one.[/quote]
I can gel with that.
[quote]If someone bothers you, ask them to stop.[/quote]
Yeah, that's reasonable.
[quote]If they do not stop, [b]destroy them[/b][/quote]
:wow:
Between the two you posted, I think I prefer the Temple of Satan's doctrine. LaVeyan isn't bad, but there are a few things that don't rub right with me, such as the aforementioned "destroy them," the "treat those who annoy you in your lair cruelly", and then Anton's whole spiel about magic. Though, if I remember correctly, what he refers to as "magic" isn't really magic as it's known in common nomenclature.
[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;53081498]I can gel with that.
Yeah, that's reasonable.
:wow:
Between the two you posted, I think I prefer the Temple of Satan's doctrine. LaVeyan isn't bad, but there are a few things that don't rub right with me, such as the aforementioned "destroy them," the "treat those who annoy you in your lair cruelly", and then Anton's whole spiel about magic. Though, if I remember correctly, what he refers to as "magic" isn't really magic as it's known in common nomenclature.[/QUOTE]
LeVeyan is basically just Libertarianism for goths.
laveyan satanic ritual/magic really only serves the same purpose as prayer (placebo), or as the satanic bible calls it 'psychodrama'
hail satan
[QUOTE=portalcrazy;53081610]laveyan satanic ritual/magic really only serves the same purpose as prayer (placebo), or as the satanic bible calls it 'psychodrama'[/QUOTE]
We don't have to believe in magic or rituals. The only thing relevant to magic or rituals is that if you have used them, successfully, you may not deny them.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53081346]Because they are solidifying the tactics religions use to get their laws in the first place by using their status as a religion to fight it. By saying something "violates sincerely held religious beliefs", they are using the same tactics that christians use, therefore just solidifying the use of that logic in court. It's not getting that logic out of the system, it's farther entrenching it.[/QUOTE]
If the reaction of Christian lawmakers were 'okay yeah we'll respect that and add your Baphomet statue to the courthouse steps' then you might have a point.
When their reaction is more along the lines of 'oh fuck no alright we'll take down the ten commandments', they're clearly delegitimizing religious influence on secular institutions by making equitable religious representation extremely undesirable. The result of them using the same tactics is to delegitimize those tactics entirely.
Either way, the legal principles underlying our secularism are against special religious treatment, not religious representation altogether. As long as they regard all religions equally, they're following both the spirit and the letter of the law. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether they take down the Ten Commandments or put up the statue of Baphomet, either way it's being consistent with the law.
[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;53081498]I can gel with that.
Yeah, that's reasonable.
:wow:
Between the two you posted, I think I prefer the Temple of Satan's doctrine. LaVeyan isn't bad, but there are a few things that don't rub right with me, such as the aforementioned "destroy them," the "treat those who annoy you in your lair cruelly", and then Anton's whole spiel about magic. Though, if I remember correctly, what he refers to as "magic" isn't really magic as it's known in common nomenclature.[/QUOTE]
LaVeyan satanism is... odd stuff. TST is a completely separate organization with a more rationalist bent that [I]doesn't[/I] sound like a high schooler who shops exclusively at Hot Topic.
I love that we're living in an age where we get headlines like these.
mfw satanism is actually preferable to christianity
what the fuck is this world we're coming to?
it's like someone invented a reality inverting machine and has been playing pranks on us for the past several years.
[QUOTE=aznz888;53082078]mfw satanism is actually preferable to christianity
what the fuck is this world we're coming to?
it's like someone invented a reality inverting machine and has been playing pranks on us for the past several years.[/QUOTE]
but satanism's been a thing for ages and just as preferable
[QUOTE=TestECull;53081080]Hah. Leave it to this bunch to abuse the very logic the christian right uses to fuck women over in order to un-fuck them. They're not the heroes we wanted, but they're the ones we need.[/QUOTE]
thats the whole point of the satanic religious groups, to abuse the very same logic and loopholes that lawmakers and church groups do to push religion and use them to push their anti religion and essentially shame them to revert to secularism.
basically if you can't beat them, join them then do something outrageous that they don't wanna play anymore
satanism has more bite to it than something like the flying spaghetti monster. christians can easily dismiss FSM because, lets face it, they made themselves easy to disregard as an actual belief system. satanism, however, has history to it, it is more frightening, more real, precisely what is needed to get an effect from christians.
