Puppy died on United Airlines flight after attendant insisted to put him in the overhead bin - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote] According to a passenger on United fight 1284 from Houston Intercontinental (IAH) to New York’s LaGuardia (LGA), a passenger boarded the flight with a TSA-compliant pet carrier with a small dog inside. For unknown reasons, the flight attendant insisted that the passenger stow the carrier — with the dog inside — in an overhead bin for the duration of the flight. The passengers reported hearing barking for part of the flight. By the end of the trip, horrified passengers found the dog had died in-flight. [/quote] [media]https://twitter.com/MaggieGrem/status/973412179197259776[/media] [url]https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/13/united-apologizes-for-dog-that-died-after-being-put-in-overhead-bin.html[/url] [url]https://gizmodo.com/united-makes-passenger-put-puppy-in-overhead-bin-puppy-1823745993[/url] [url]https://thepointsguy.com/2018/03/dog-dies-overhead-bin-united/[/url]

United manages to somehow reach all new lows

I miss Continental Airlines.

what is it about united that just makes their flights awful and why does everyone who work for them operate at 25% brain capacity i feel like i hear more stories about united than any other airline

Poor little thing would have been terrified in there. OT: when did flying with pets in the US become a thing? I swear I never saw it when I used to go over there as a kid but the last 2 years I've seen pets all over your airports.

[QUOTE=Hobo4President;53200090]Poor little thing would have been terrified in there. OT: when did flying with pets in the US become a thing? I swear I never saw it when I used to go over there as a kid but the last 2 years I've seen pets all over your airports.[/QUOTE] its an incredibly common thing? almost every flight ive been on in the last 10 years has had at least one pet on it

When flight attendants don't even know their own regulations is when you know an airline is seriously fucked. Another tickbox on the never use United because of X list.

[QUOTE=Hobo4President;53200090]Poor little thing would have been terrified in there. OT: when did flying with pets in the US become a thing? I swear I never saw it when I used to go over there as a kid but the last 2 years I've seen pets all over your airports.[/QUOTE] Small pets can ride up in the cabin as long as their carrier can fit underneath the seat and they stay in the carrier for the duration of the flight. ESAs and Service Dogs can be out of the carrier but they must also be able to fit underneath the passenger's legs and stay out of the aisle. Usually they'll get seats up in the front row where there is no one in front of them. Large dogs that are not ESAs or service animals must ride in a carrier down in the cargo area of the plane. This lady I guess had a small dog that was in a carrier and totally should have been fine staying under the seat. The overhead bin is closed off, hot, and probably has a ridiculously low amount of breathable air once its shut. If the dog was barking, stressed, and panicked, it could have easily suffocated or suffered heat stroke or a heart issue. Absolutely zero idea why the flight attendant would ever suggest that. Had to have been a real moron.

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;53200081]what is it about united that just makes their flights awful and why does everyone who work for them operate at 25% brain capacity i feel like i hear more stories about united than any other airline[/QUOTE] They cut corners on everything, old planes running constantly with minimal to zero training for staff other than the pilots and they pay them the lowest they can get away with. The staff likely just wing it all the time and are excessively stressed out. [QUOTE=Pascall;53200109]Small pets can ride up in the cabin as long as their carrier can fit underneath the seat and they stay in the carrier for the duration of the flight. ESAs and Service Dogs can be out of the carrier but they must also be able to fit underneath the passenger's legs and stay out of the aisle. Usually they'll get seats up in the front row where there is no one in front of them. Large dogs that are not ESAs or service animals must ride in a carrier down in the cargo area of the plane. This lady I guess had a small dog that was in a carrier and totally should have been fine staying under the seat. The overhead bin is closed off, hot, and probably has a ridiculously low amount of breathable air once its shut. If the dog was barking, stressed, and panicked, it could have easily suffocated or suffered heat stroke or a heart issue. Absolutely zero idea why the flight attendant would ever suggest that. Had to have been a real moron.[/QUOTE] Bags go in the overhead bin, no exceptions. :downs: Actually had this argument with flight attendants before where they demand all your bags go in the overhead yet policy states its ok to store a laptop bag under your seat, which they were demanding I put in the overhead. Again they don't even know their own policies half the time.

It's like United Airlines took the statement "This airline has reached its lowest" as a challenge. When you think they've reached their lowest they somehow sink even lower.

-snip nvm-

Jesus, this kind of upsets me because I've traveled overseas with my Belgian/German mix. A 15 hour flight. I'd be incredibly distraught if something like this happened.

United Airlines, strong contestant for another year of "Worst Airline 2018". Generally Airlines suck, Fees suck, Service sucks, TSA sucks, Legroom sucks, Prices suck. [QUOTE=LuaChobo;53200388]whats with american airlines and having untrained attendants seemingly powertripping over semantics/rules they arent even well read on i had an experience when i went to the US where they were taking orders for which dinner meal you wanted, i was asleep as they went buy and woke up when they were about 1-2 rows behind, asked them if they could take my order and told me no, because they had already taken orders for my row, i complained and they just got real pissy with me for the rest of the flight got my dinner tho[/QUOTE] Man, I would have been majorly pissed off, not getting food that is even included in the ticket. I am a patient fella but I draw the line at denying someone their basic sustenance. But hey, you got the food and pissed off terrible flight attendants, win-win.

Why did nobody, including the owner, do anything when they heard frightened barking coming from the fucking overhead compartment?

[B]i was dumb and wrong: see below post[/B] [del][QUOTE=Pascall;53200109]Small pets can ride up in the cabin as long as their carrier can fit underneath the seat and they stay in the carrier for the duration of the flight. ESAs and Service Dogs can be out of the carrier but they must also be able to fit underneath the passenger's legs and stay out of the aisle. Usually they'll get seats up in the front row where there is no one in front of them. Large dogs that are not ESAs or service animals must ride in a carrier down in the cargo area of the plane. [B]This lady I guess had a small dog that was in a carrier and totally should have been fine staying under the seat. The overhead bin is closed off, hot, and probably has a ridiculously low amount of breathable air once its shut. If the dog was barking, stressed, and panicked, it could have easily suffocated or suffered heat stroke or a heart issue. [/B] Absolutely zero idea why the flight attendant would ever suggest that. Had to have been a real moron.[/QUOTE] without defending united for this stupid action: my sense of the situation is i don't think the overhead bin is as likely a culprit as made out to be. they're not air tight. the problem with enclosed spaces (at least for humans) is CO2 poisoning, not oxygen. i don't know specifically if the scale tips towards oxygen for small dogs, but assuming it doesn't, i don't think there was really any issue there. i can't find the numbers for how much CO2 a dog makes in an hour, but assuming it's small enough to fit in a overhead bin, it's probably a very small dog and as such minimal amounts of CO2. so even if it was airtight CO2 poisoning wasn't the cause because you don't notice CO2 poisoning, dog was barking ergo it was able to detect whatever it wasn't jiving with. i've never felt my luggage be anything other than cabin temperature when i pull it out of the bin. i will give you the fact that dogs do heat up the area they're in (luggage doesn't usually make heat), but i think it wouldn't be that bad to build up enough heat in one compartment to the point where the dog got heat stroke. my guess is that the dog had a pre-existing condition and the stress got to it. it's possible it could have occurred during flight no matter what and i don't think we'll know was the FA dumb and in the wrong to tell the passenger to put it in the bin? definitely yeah do i think that it led directly to the death of the puppy and had it not been in the overhead bin it would have lived a long and healthy life? that i don't know the answer to, and while this is fucked up and United fucked up by allowing the protocols that a FA thought this was okay, i feel like this could have happened no matter what [editline]13th March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Reagy;53200112][B]They cut corners on everything, old planes running constantly with minimal to zero training for staff other than the pilots and they pay them the lowest they can get away with. [/B] The staff likely just wing it all the time and are excessively stressed out. Bags go in the overhead bin, no exceptions. :downs: Actually had this argument with flight attendants before where they demand all your bags go in the overhead yet policy states its ok to store a laptop bag under your seat, which they were demanding I put in the overhead. Again they don't even know their own policies half the time.[/QUOTE] considering it's harder to become a delta FA than get into harvard, i doubt that (at least for flight attendants) [editline]13th March 2018[/editline] to clarify: i am not trying to defend united, i am just not jumping down their throat and instead trying to provide other explanations than "flight attendant murdered a puppy"[/del]

[QUOTE=Coolboy;53200450] Generally Airlines suck, Fees suck, Service sucks, TSA sucks, Legroom sucks, Prices suck.[/QUOTE] Nah, just NA airlines. I've had incomparably better services with other major carriers outside of NA, such as ANA and Cathay Pacific.

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;53200457]i've never felt my luggage be anything other than cabin temperature when i pull it out of the bin. i will give you the fact that dogs do heat up the area they're in (luggage doesn't usually make heat), but i think it wouldn't be that bad to build up enough heat in one compartment to the point where the dog got heat stroke.[/QUOTE] How much of your luggage produces its own body heat though?

[B]still dumb and wrong, see below post[/B] [del] [QUOTE=Alice3173;53200468]How much of your luggage produces its own body heat though?[/QUOTE] i never said dogs don't produce heat. i just don't see thermodynamics cooperating to raise the air temperature of a poorly ventilated (yet still ventilated) space 20+ degrees farenheit in the span of 3.5 hours[/del]

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;53200081]what is it about united that just makes their flights awful and why does everyone who work for them operate at 25% brain capacity i feel like i hear more stories about united than any other airline[/QUOTE] I hear they put large dosages of lead and mercury in their employee bathroom sinks, making everyone that works for them fatally stupid

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;53200471]i never said dogs don't produce heat. i just don't see thermodynamics cooperating to raise the air temperature of a poorly ventilated (yet still ventilated) space 20+ degrees farenheit in the span of 3.5 hours[/QUOTE] I mean it was more than likely just extreme stress that killed it since small animals are prone to pre-existing heart conditions that can be exacerbated by stress. But the stress would have probably been less had the dog actually been with its owner. So I can't not put a good deal of the blame on the flight attendant considering the fact that it was shut in there at all which is 100% against regulations on any airline.

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;53200471]i never said dogs don't produce heat. i just don't see thermodynamics cooperating to raise the air temperature of a poorly ventilated (yet still ventilated) space 20+ degrees farenheit in the span of 3.5 hours[/QUOTE] I somehow completely missed this part of your post: [QUOTE]i will give you the fact that dogs do heat up the area they're in (luggage doesn't usually make heat)[/QUOTE] But regardless I still disagree. Closed areas with poor ventilation that are already packed full of stuff preventing airflow even more are going to easily heat up a lot quicker than you might think and 3-1/2 hours is a fairly long time.

okay, so i retract my previous statements, not because i'm backpedaling, but because i actually went and did the math. short version: dog probably died of heatstroke to those who care: heating up 1 cubic meter (a generous estimate) of air 13 degrees celcius (which takes it from cabin temp of 72F to 95F which i can imagine would not be comfortable for the dog) takes about 17 kilojoules. a dog that weighs 22 lbs (i know that this isn't the size of the puppy that died, but the ballpark numbers prove me so wrong that it doesn't matter) needs approximately 400 calories a day. calories effectively directly convert to output heat of an animal, so thats 400cal*(4184joule/1cal) = 1.6 megajoules of heat per day. divide that by 24 and multiply by 3.5 to get the 3.5 hours spent in the overhead bin. that gets you to 244 kilojoules. being over by that much means that even if you make the dog smaller or give it more air you've still got more than 200 kilojoules of heat that you'd need to spread over a larger amount of air before you don't kill the dog. i won't snip my posts because i'm owning up to this stupidity. i forget how fucky air heating gets with small quantities of it. [editline]edit[/editline] further calculations have led me to believe that even the best case scenario imaginable in an overhead bin (1 lb dog, 1 cubic meter of space), you're still a little bit more than twice over the joule limit (raising the temperature of that 1 cubic meter of air past 95 degrees) i have learned to not make assumptions about thermodynamics

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;53200517]okay, so i retract my previous statements, not because i'm backpedaling, but because i actually went and did the math. short version: dog probably died of heatstroke to those who care: heating up 1 cubic meter (a generous estimate) of air 13 degrees celcius (which takes it from cabin temp of 72F to 95F which i can imagine would not be comfortable for the dog) takes about 17 kilojoules. a dog that weighs 22 lbs (i know that this isn't the size of the puppy that died, but the ballpark numbers prove me so wrong that it doesn't matter) needs approximately 400 calories a day. calories effectively directly convert to output heat of an animal, so thats 400cal*(4184joule/1cal) = 1.6 megajoules of heat per day. divide that by 24 and multiply by 3.5 to get the 3.5 hours spent in the overhead bin. that gets you to 244 kilojoules. being over by that much means that even if you make the dog smaller or give it more air you've still got more than 200 kilojoules of heat that you'd need to spread over a larger amount of air before you don't kill the dog. i won't snip my posts because i'm owning up to this stupidity. i forget how fucky air heating gets with small quantities of it.[/QUOTE] Not disagreeing with you but this ignores the heat flux out of the overhead compartment, and the thermal mass of everything else inside the compartment as well. The dog can also shed heat by evaporative cooling.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;53200551]Not disagreeing with you but this ignores the heat flux out of the overhead compartment, and the thermal mass of everything else inside the compartment as well. The dog can also shed heat by evaporative cooling.[/QUOTE] it's calculated as a worst case scenario, and even the best case worst case scenario still puts you at twice over the number you need to not go past (plus the heat the dog sheds goes right back into the compartment) i ignored the rest of the compartment because i'm making the assumption that the other bags are acting as insulators and the only relevant air volume is the meter^3 available treating it as only having a roller bag volume worth of air makes the numbers worse

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;53200553]it's calculated as a worst case scenario, and even the best case worst case scenario still puts you at twice over the number you need to not go past (plus the heat the dog sheds goes right back into the compartment) i ignored the rest of the compartment because i'm making the assumption that the other bags are acting as insulators and the only relevant air volume is the meter^3 available treating it as only having a roller bag volume worth of air makes the numbers worse[/QUOTE] The dog is effectively acting as a 20W heater. I don't have any numbers off-hand but I doubt the overhead compartment is sufficiently well-insulated to allow the temperature to rise that much.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;53200557]The dog is effectively acting as a 20W heater. I don't have any numbers off-hand but I doubt the overhead compartment is sufficiently well-insulated to allow the temperature to rise that much.[/QUOTE] It's obviously very simplified, but there are a lot of simplifications working both ways here. Yes the compartment is not perfectly insulated, and you should consider the bags as well. On the other hand, the 400 Calories for a full day would not be evenly spread out over 24 hours. Less would be used while sleeping, and more would be used when the dog is stressed by being closed in a small dark compartment. Also 1m^3 is probably incredibly generous. I don't have any numbers on hand for the size of a luggage compartment, but considering the maximum size for hand luggage for most airlines confine you to less than 0.05m^3, 1m^3 should be a very generous estimate I think. Even with all the simplifications the answers are more than an order of magnitude apart, so it should be pretty safe to say that it would get [I]really[/I] warm inside the luggage compartment in 3.5 hours time.

[QUOTE=OvB;53200079]I miss Continental Airlines.[/QUOTE] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vkgnlwi9w8[/media]

Remind me to check next time I fly to visit my family in california never to book a ticket where the domestic flight from NY to LA is handled by these absolute fucking morons.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;53200557]The dog is effectively acting as a 20W heater. I don't have any numbers off-hand but I doubt the overhead compartment is sufficiently well-insulated to allow the temperature to rise that much.[/QUOTE] One article I read about this incident says the dog was a French bulldog. From speaking with 1 individual owner, they are extremely finicky dogs in regards to temperature. If theyre too hot or too cold, they just shut down. IIRC they sometimes have issues regulating their body temp on their own. So surprisingly, shoving the dog in a hotbox easily killed it. What an amazing act of cruelty

[QUOTE=LarparNar;53200585]It's obviously very simplified, but there are a lot of simplifications working both ways here. Yes the compartment is not perfectly insulated, and you should consider the bags as well. On the other hand, the 400 Calories for a full day would not be evenly spread out over 24 hours. Less would be used while sleeping, and more would be used when the dog is stressed by being closed in a small dark compartment. Also 1m^3 is probably incredibly generous. I don't have any numbers on hand for the size of a luggage compartment, but considering the maximum size for hand luggage for most airlines confine you to less than 0.05m^3, 1m^3 should be a very generous estimate I think. Even with all the simplifications the answers are more than an order of magnitude apart, so it should be pretty safe to say that it would get [I]really[/I] warm inside the luggage compartment in 3.5 hours time.[/QUOTE] Yeah, now that I think about it more you're right that the presence of luggage would only make things worse, especially since it'd restrict ventilation even more and decrease the amount of air that the dog can dissipate heat to.