What Newcastle's Islamic community and religious leaders are saying following the London attack - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE] [IMG]http://tu9srvbirvvtmtqkatmuy2hyb25py2xlbgl2zs5jby51aw00.g00.chroniclelive.co.uk/g00/2_d3d3LmNocm9uaWNsZWxpdmUuY28udWs%3D_/TU9SRVBIRVVTMTQkaHR0cDovL2kzLmNocm9uaWNsZWxpdmUuY28udWsvaW5jb21pbmcvYXJ0aWNsZTEzMTM2MDE0LmVjZS9BTFRFUk5BVEVTL3M2MTViL0RpcHUtQWhhZC1vbi10ZXJyb3IuanBnP2kxMGMubWFyay5pbWFnZS50eXBl_$/$/$/$/$/$[/IMG] Religious and community leaders in Newcastle have rushed to condemn the “despicable” killings in London as police reassure residents there is “no specific threat” to the North East. Seven people are now confirmed to have died after terrorists drove a van at pedestrians before getting out and stabbing people in the borough market area near London Bridge. One man told BBC news he heard them shouting “this is for Allah”. Elswick Councillor Dipu Ahad said the attack will cause anxiety amongst the local Muslim community amid fears of a backlash [...] “I’m absolutely disgusted that innocent civilians are getting slaughtered. “It’s the month of Ramadan, where Muslims are concentrating on being better people and trying to help others - and these guys are going round causing carnage on our streets in the name of Islam. “These are arrogant, despicable, disgusting individuals and my heart goes out to the victims.” [...] Mr Ahad, who organised a vigil to honour the victims of the Manchester Arena terror attack last week, said it was time for Muslim leaders to be “more proactive” in discussing terrorism. He said: “Muslims have been doing a lot but it feels as though now we have to do a bit more - it’s sad but I can’t see any other options. “Every time such incidents happen there’s paranoia and hostility - bridges are broken and it becomes really difficult.” [...] And veteran race relations campaigner Dr Hari Shukla, of the Newcastle Council of faiths, said Newcastle would “stand together to keep this evil out of our society”. He said: “It will take a lot of time to recover from this shock but this will make us very determined - we will not let them win.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/what-newcastles-community-religious-leaders-13135910"]Source[/URL]

ISIS isn't really following Islam anyways. Well, not what it's meant to be, anyway. I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that ISIS simply worships chaos, with a coat of Islamic paint in order to try and convince themselves that they're actually legitimate.

Why are people instantly asking for Islam to apologise for these actions? The results of these attacks stem from innocent people being murdered in the name of removing terrorism. Apparently some civilians being caught in the crossfire is "acceptable losses" it's no fucking wonder people are turning to extremism when a bank & 20+ civilians get razed because there were a few members of ISIS inside of it. Every time an action like this happens we start frothing at the mouth at Muslims, when our own fucking government is responsible for creating this mess.

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;52311414]Why are people instantly asking for Islam to apologise for these actions? The results of these attacks stem from innocent people being murdered in the name of removing terrorism. Apparently some civilians being caught in the crossfire is "acceptable losses" it's no fucking wonder people are turning to extremism when a bank & 20+ civilians get razed because there were a few members of ISIS inside of it. Every time an action like this happens we start frothing at the mouth at Muslims, when our own fucking government is responsible for creating this mess.[/QUOTE] If they care about civilian casualties why would they join an organisation that was literally shooting people who were fleeing Mosul? That logic seems a bit retarded. I get the impression most people who join ISIS couldn't give a fuck about civilian casualties, particularly when ISIS is responsible for the majority of them. A lot of people are trying to apply western liberal ideals and mentalities to a group that couldn't be further from them.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52311426]If they care about civilian casualties why would they join an organisation that was literally shooting people who were fleeing Mosul? That logic seems a bit retarded. I get the impression most people who join ISIS couldn't give a fuck about civilian casualties, particularly when ISIS is responsible for the majority of them.[/QUOTE] You still can't write off innocent lives as 'part of the process'. Why would people join ISIS in the first place? You can't just be like "hey mate wanna bomb some people for a laugh?". They can influence and direct people towards damaging the west by saying "Look, they killed all these people, help us fight against it" and then the process of indoctrinating them to believing what they're doing is right can begin. If we really want to reduce the frequency of these terrorist attacks, we could start by not fucking bombing other countries. We can't expect to kick a hornets nest and not have them attack you back.

[QUOTE=ironman17;52311407]ISIS isn't really following Islam anyways. Well, not what it's meant to be, anyway. I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that ISIS simply worships chaos, with a coat of Islamic paint in order to try and convince themselves that they're actually legitimate.[/QUOTE] i agree and disagree. the leaders of ISIS follow islam probably just as closely as, say, the old rich priest of a megachurch follows christianity. see: as much as it serves them and their wealth and various perversions. as for "not what it's meant to be": islam has its fair share of problems with ancient teachings and an obsolete book that needs some updating. isis uses and follows those issues, specifically the violent ones, to recruit losers. i'm not just calling them that for the trump meme, either. like any cult they seek out the people with no goal in life nor future nor children. when someone comes to them and tells them they have a new pathway into a great afterlife via their religion, you've got good bait. tell them it's ok because the quran says fellow muslims beheaded the sons of their own prophet in karbala, and it gives the weak willed the perfect excuse to throw out morals.

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;52311441]You still can't write off innocent lives as 'part of the process'. Why would people join ISIS in the first place? You can't just be like "hey mate wanna bomb some people for a laugh?". They can influence and direct people towards damaging the west by saying "Look, they killed all these people, help us fight against it" and then the process of indoctrinating them to believing what they're doing is right can begin. If we really want to reduce the frequency of these terrorist attacks, we could start by not fucking bombing other countries. We can't expect to kick a hornets nest and not have them attack you back.[/QUOTE] People join ISIS mostly out of a desire for Salafi Sunni supremacy. They're the Nazis of the Arabic world in essence, it shouldn't take much thought to realise why this might appeal to certain types of people. Not bombing them won't make them go away, ISIS wants the west to stop bombing them since the bombing campaigns have been so successful against them and they're rapidly losing territory as a result. Even if the west stopped bombing them, the Iraqi government would simply do it themselves and you'd have the same casualties regardless, mostly because that's just how war works. The idea that people are joining ISIS because of civilian casualties is just absurd when you consider the fact that ISIS are regularly driving car and truck bombs into heavily populated areas in both Syria and Iraq. They're responsible for far more civilian casualties than the west and Iraqi army combined are responsible for.

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;52311414]Why are people instantly asking for Islam to apologise for these actions? The results of these attacks stem from innocent people being murdered in the name of removing terrorism. Apparently some civilians being caught in the crossfire is "acceptable losses" it's no fucking wonder people are turning to extremism when a bank & 20+ civilians get razed because there were a few members of ISIS inside of it. Every time an action like this happens we start frothing at the mouth at Muslims, when our own fucking government is responsible for creating this mess.[/QUOTE] the strategy of most jihad movements is so effective because it preys on ignorance. step one is to create instability in a region where they can influence the local population (eg 9/11, iraq), the invasion of the region from western nations allows them to use the instability of the region to recruit more people to their cause. step two is to create distrust between non-muslims and muslims so that muslims living in western countries will rise up. this becomes incredibly easy for them because people are ignorant cunts who think every muslim is a terrorist. its so successful because its so hard to counter their strategy.

At least Muslim leaders in the west are now recognising there is more they can do other than simply condemn the attacks. They clearly haven't been reaching these disenfranchised young individuals who are susceptible to extremist recruitment.

[QUOTE=ironman17;52311407]ISIS isn't really following Islam anyways. Well, not what it's meant to be, anyway. I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that ISIS simply worships chaos, with a coat of Islamic paint in order to try and convince themselves that they're actually legitimate.[/QUOTE] When all of the bible is as subjective as it is, the Quran too, I would argue that whether they're "really following Islam" is a simple two part question: do they follow the core tennants, and do they [I]call themselves[/I] Islamic? The answer to both is yes. They're Islamic just as much as Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian; there's some picking and chosing going on, and many interpretations are ultra-orthodox, but the core is there.

[QUOTE=ironman17;52311407]ISIS isn't really following Islam anyways. Well, not what it's meant to be, anyway. I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that ISIS simply worships chaos, with a coat of Islamic paint in order to try and convince themselves that they're actually legitimate.[/QUOTE] sorry but this is bullshit. political and religious movements are very often filled with true believers at the core who genuinely believe in what they are doing. they /believe/ that they follow islam, and there are a lot of followers and sympathisers who also believe them to be following what they consider as islam saying shit like "ISIS simply worships chaos" is bollocks and you know it. it's a gross oversimplification and fools people into thinking that ISIS is somehow a group of demons that seized control over an area with millions of people. there's a reason they have achieved military success and formed a state out of the vacuum left behind by former Syria and have yet to collapse in spite of their major shortcomings. like it or not, they are as much Islamic as the Christians who commit genocide are.

Jesus I can't imagine the helplessness and fear these innocent people must feel when someone else wears their religion as a mask to commit reprehensible crimes, and no matter how many times they cry "that's not us. That's not us. We would never do that, they don't represent us" nobody listens and the world blames them.

This is great. This man's statement should be on TV after every recap of the attack.

Maybe if they're so concerned about regular muslims being looked at funny, they should rout[URL="http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60"] the extremist elements[/URL] from their communities, so this shit doesn't happen any more and damn others by proxy. When 35% of your population thinks suicide bombing is ok, maybe it's time to fix shit, and not start looking sad when people start judging you.

[QUOTE=ironman17;52311407]Snipped[/QUOTE] There's no khorne alters for them to be chaos cultist, Usually followers of the blood god have imagry on them and other things displaying their allegiance to the blood god khorne.

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;52311414]Why are people instantly asking for Islam to apologise for these actions? The results of these attacks stem from innocent people being murdered in the name of removing terrorism. Apparently some civilians being caught in the crossfire is "acceptable losses" it's no fucking wonder people are turning to extremism when a bank & 20+ civilians get razed because there were a few members of ISIS inside of it. Every time an action like this happens we start frothing at the mouth at Muslims, when our own fucking government is responsible for creating this mess.[/QUOTE] lol, ISIS isn't some righteous response to civilian casualties, I'm almost certain ISIS and the Taliban kill more native civilians than first world military forces do. That doesn't make what we're doing over there any more acceptable, but it's naive to pretend that ISIS would just go away if we were more careful about collateral damage.

[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52312266]Maybe if they're so concerned about regular muslims being looked at funny, they should rout[URL="http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60"] the extremist elements[/URL] from their communities, so this shit doesn't happen any more and damn others by proxy. When 35% of your population thinks suicide bombing is ok, maybe it's time to fix shit, and not start looking sad when people start judging you.[/QUOTE] Wasnt that the case here? That the local mosque reported these people multiple times but it was ignored?

[QUOTE=da space core;52312917]Wasnt that the case here? That the local mosque reported these people multiple times but it was ignored?[/QUOTE] That was for the concert bombing last week. Local mosques and american intelligence agencies reported the guy to british authorities

[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;52313750]I definitely would not call 9/11 a success. It accomplished the exact opposite of what was intended.[/QUOTE] You mean it [I]wasn't[/I] intended to make America live in fear for 16+ years, have the Patriot Act strip away essential liberties including suspending habeus corpus against foreigners [I]suspected[/I] of having links to terrorism, and exhaust its global credibility and a fuckton of money making a mess of Afghanistan and Iraq (further destabilizing the region)? America got attacked once and hasn't stopped throwing tantrums. If that wasn't the purpose of 9/11, it's a good consolation prize.

[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;52313750]I definitely would not call 9/11 a success. It accomplished the exact opposite of what was intended.[/QUOTE] No, the overarching goal of Al-Queda and ISIS is to piss off the west/not-islam enough that they're driven, collectively, to all out war with all islamic states, and all islamic states have to band together to fight everyone else. And any muslims "stuck" inside those other states are forced to make the decision as to if they're citizens of that country, or subjects if islam, and basically form the greatest fifth column there ever was. So given that, 9/11 did exactly what the infomercial said. They got their holy war.

[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52312266]Maybe if they're so concerned about regular muslims being looked at funny, they should rout[URL="http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60"] the extremist elements[/URL] from their communities, so this shit doesn't happen any more and damn others by proxy. When 35% of your population thinks suicide bombing is ok, maybe it's time to fix shit, and not start looking sad when people start judging you.[/QUOTE] so do muslims have to reach a weekly extremist-hunting quota for you to respect them or what

[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52313818]No, the overarching goal of Al-Queda and ISIS is to piss off the west/not-islam enough that they're driven, collectively, to all out war with all islamic states, and all islamic states have to band together to fight everyone else. And any muslims "stuck" inside those other states are forced to make the decision as to if they're citizens of that country, or subjects if islam, and basically form the greatest fifth column there ever was. So given that, 9/11 did exactly what the infomercial said. They got their holy war.[/QUOTE] You ought to read Bin Laden's official statement on the 9/11 attacks. It had nothing to do with creating endless war, it was about bringing to attention constant western intervention in the middle east where it was unwanted and unneeded. It resulted in endless intervention, the complete opposite of what Al Qaeda wanted. The goal of Al Qaeda was to create an atmosphere for the future world caliphate to develop [I]tomorrow.[/I] The ideology of ISIS is "why wait for tomorrow when we can make it today", which is a part of why there is such a major divide between ISIS and Al Qaeda.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52313837]so do muslims have to reach a weekly extremist-hunting quota for you to respect them or what[/QUOTE] ah the good ol putting words into people's mouth reply :)

[QUOTE=Impulse101;52313976]ah the good ol putting words into people's mouth reply :)[/QUOTE] ah the good ol "shit up the thread and add nothing of substance" rating-farming bs you're free to point out how or where i'm putting words in his mouth but be warned, it might take some of this thing they call "thinking"

[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52312266]Maybe if they're so concerned about regular muslims being looked at funny, they should rout[URL="http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60"] the extremist elements[/URL] from their communities, so this shit doesn't happen any more and damn others by proxy. When 35% of your population thinks suicide bombing is ok, maybe it's time to fix shit, and not start looking sad when people start judging you.[/QUOTE] no joke if you literally believe that there are extremist groups living within and sheltered by developed first world Muslim communities you're a complete fool and arguably part of the reason for the developing terror situation worldwide. Terrorists use Islam as a way to weaponize mentally ill / antisocial people. Guess what ostracizing and blaming large groups does.

[QUOTE=Radical_ed;52314129]no joke if you literally believe that there are extremist groups living within developed first world Muslim communities you're a complete fool and arguably part of the reason for the developing terror situation worldwide.[/QUOTE] what about the 3000 or so under a terror watchlist here

[QUOTE=Radical_ed;52314129]no joke if you literally believe that there are extremist groups living within and sheltered by developed first world Muslim communities you're a complete fool and arguably part of the reason for the developing terror situation worldwide. Terrorists use Islam as a way to weaponize mentally ill / antisocial people. Guess what ostracizing and blaming large groups does.[/QUOTE] the fuck lmao the intelligence agencies working in the UK have made hundreds of arrests and have already said there's a network of these people. They have records of them flying to and from high-risk countries. The 'lone wolf' narrative is bollocks. But somehow it's our fault for 'ostracizing' muslims? It's kind of sad you're going to do that kind of mental gymnastics just to victim blame

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52314152]what about the 3000 or so under a terror watchlist here[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Islam is the second largest religion in the United Kingdom, with results from the United Kingdom Census 2011 giving the UK Muslim population in 2011 as 2,786,635, 4.4% of the total population. The vast majority of Muslims in the United Kingdom live in England: 2,660,116 (5.02% of the population).[/QUOTE] Even assuming all 3000 of those people are practicing Muslims who are openly seen by their community that doesn't meant they're all being sheltered.