Hawaii’s Lootbox bills have appeared - Sensationalist Headlines

[url]http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2018/02/12/hawaii-news/bills-target-video-games-with-rewards-for-a-price/[/url] [QUOTE]It might be game over for certain video games in Hawaii after state lawmakers introduced legislation to limit the implementation of electronic gambling systems within the popular pastime. A quartet of proposed bills introduced last month target exploitative monetization techniques in video games that some fear might psychologically condition players to become addicted to gambling.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]One pair of bills, House Bill 2686 and Senate Bill 3024, would prohibit the sale of any game featuring a system wherein players can purchase a randomized reward using real money to anyone younger than 21 years old. The other two bills, House Bill 2727 and Senate Bill 3025, would require video game publishers to prominently label games containing such randomized purchase systems, as well as disclose the probability rates of receiving each loot box reward. “I grew up playing games my whole life,” said state Rep. Chris Lee of Oahu, who spearheaded the bills. “I’ve watched firsthand the evolution of the industry from one that seeks to create new things to one that’s begun to exploit people, especially children, to maximize profit.” [/QUOTE] HB2686: [url]https://legiscan.com/HI/text/HB2686/2018[/url] HB2727: [url]https://legiscan.com/HI/bill/HB2727/2018[/url]

A step in the right direction!

I think these bills also patch up the China lootbox loophole. Blizzard and friends were able to go around the lootbox rules by selling currency which included free lootboxes

And now we wait for companies to figure out how to loophole their way out of gambling laws because there's no way they're giving up their golden goose until you drag it away from them kicking and screaming. I get the feeling that we're going to be playing loot box/microtransaction whack a mole for quite a while.

I hope these bills will give them ( Activision / Blizzard , EA, Valve ) something to think about. They either play ball and regulate like they were supposed to, or get placed under a large regulatory microscope.

[QUOTE=coolgame8013;53127944]I hope these bills will give them ( Activision / Blizzard , EA, Valve ) something to think about. They either play ball and regulate like they were supposed to, or get placed under a large regulatory microscope.[/QUOTE] I hope the same, but similar bills will need to be introduced in many other places first before the gaming publishers will begin to feel threatened. [editline]13th February 2018[/editline] And mind you, these bills haven't been passed yet, so let's not celebrate too early.

[QUOTE=Wii60;53127920]“I grew up playing games my whole life,” said state Rep. Chris Lee of Oahu [/QUOTE] It's good to see we're getting to the point where politicians actually understand the problems they're trying to solve, rather than a bunch of old guys who have never played a video game in their life.

[QUOTE=Wii60;53127938]I think these bills also patch up the China lootbox loophole. Blizzard and friends were able to go around the lootbox rules by selling currency which included free lootboxes[/QUOTE] Yeah [QUOTE]§481B- Video games; restrictions. (a) It shall be unlawful for any retailer to sell to any person under twenty-one years of age a video game that contains a system of further purchasing: (1) A randomized reward or rewards; or (2) [b]A virtual item which can be redeemed to directly or indirectly receive a randomized reward or rewards.[/b] (b) For the purpose of this section: "Retailer" means any person who offers video games for sale, including resale by the purchaser, through any means, including sales outlets, catalogs, or the Internet. "Video game" means an object or device that stores recorded data or instructions, receives data or instructions generated by a person who uses it, and, by processing the data or instructions, creates an interactive game capable of being played, viewed, or experienced on or through a computer, gaming system, console, or other technology.[/QUOTE] I assume this blocks Blizzard from pulling that loophole.

Waiting for yongyea's reaction :v:

Honestly it should be 18 years old. At that point youre a legal adult and a lot of states already allow you to gamble at casinos then. The lootbox system should really make the game an instant M rating

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;53128112]Waiting for yongyea's reaction :v:[/QUOTE] So he can blabber about it without getting to the point or inserting any sort of personal interpretation.

[QUOTE=Digivee;53128124]Honestly it should be 18 years old. At that point youre a legal adult and a lot of states already allow you to gamble at casinos then. The lootbox system should really make the game an instant M rating[/QUOTE] The higher the age, the more it hurts the ones trying to sell them. 21 is good.

[QUOTE=Reds;53127939]And now we wait for companies to figure out how to loophole their way out of gambling laws because there's no way they're giving up their golden goose until you drag it away from them kicking and screaming. I get the feeling that we're going to be playing loot box/microtransaction whack a mole for quite a while.[/QUOTE] You next "War Chest" now reveal its contents before you purchase them. It's not randomized reward if you know what you are buying!

Do game companies that would be against this have any lobbying power to shut these bills down?

It would definitely be an ethical victory if the bills pass, but wouldn't they just disable the gambling services for anyone living in Hawaii? Seems more like a speed bump for publishers than a crippling blow. I'm also terrified at the thought of what's next. As more obvious schemes get ruined, more devious and potentially dangerous ones take their place. Publishers have already moved into the realm of unannounced intense psychological manipulation, so I'm wondering how far this whole mess is really going to go before it's finally over, for better or for worse.

[QUOTE=Nick Mason;53128175]It would definitely be an ethical victory if the bills pass, but wouldn't they just disable the gambling services for anyone living in Hawaii? Seems more like a speed bump for publishers than a crippling blow.[/QUOTE] At the end of the day if a company has zero presence in Hawaii in the form of servers or physical sales etc then they could get away with just doing nothing at the risk of Hawaii banning access to said game. Still a win though because this sets an example for other countries to look at and emulate, all we need is bigger markets to pick up these rules so that it becomes more effort than its worth to put real money gambling systems in games.

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;53128112]Waiting for yongyea's reaction :v:[/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKSTg5jJu4A"]Your wish is granted.[/URL]

[QUOTE=Noob4life;53128140]You next "War Chest" now reveal its contents before you purchase them. It's not randomized reward if you know what you are buying![/QUOTE] That would be great for players. Nobody is going to buy lootboxes with a bunch of trash in it.

[QUOTE=vladnag;53128019]It's good to see we're getting to the point where politicians actually understand the problems they're tryign to solve, rather than a bunch of old guys who have never played a video game in their life.[/QUOTE] Kinda weird to see this happen THIS fast.

[QUOTE=Robber;53128415]That would be great for players. Nobody is going to buy lootboxes with a bunch of trash in it.[/QUOTE] except you still can't see whats in the next one, so the gamble just changes from hoping there's something good in this lootbox, to hoping there's something good in the next lootbox

It's not really anything to do with politicians suddenly "getting it", this is just a rare case of aligning interests. To them, this is an easy PR angle ("we stopped the children from gambling! ") and an easy ticket to re-election.

Not really a fan of legislation dictating game design decision, but this is necessary. My main fear is that the bill would be unenforceable. There'll be a checkbox when buying a game that says "i am not a resident of Hawaii" right next to "i agree to the terms of service" and everything will continue like it's been.

[QUOTE=SAULSBASHWALL;53129916]It's not really anything to do with politicians suddenly "getting it", this is just a rare case of aligning interests. To them, this is an easy PR angle ("we stopped the children from gambling! ") and an easy ticket to re-election.[/QUOTE] Alternatively, the people responsible for making these bills saw the massive outrage Battlefront 2 caused and thought it would help dissuade people who might be more easily hooked into spending hundreds to even a thousand dollars on micropurchases. The video game industry itself has grown substantially over the past few decades and I think it's a good idea for our government to look at shitty practices like these and decide to do something about it. (Rather, I approve of state-level governing on things like this)

At this point i ask, Will the ESRB/ESA Actually go back on what they said? Wasn't the story of how the ESRB was even made was to avoid Government Meddling? With laws being made against Loot Boxes they should really cut their losses and actually self-regulate it. But sadly i'm not optimistic on that end. Anyway to discourage Loot Boxes is a plus for me.

[QUOTE=JXZ;53129931]Not really a fan of legislation dictating game design decision, but this is necessary. My main fear is that the bill would be unenforceable. There'll be a checkbox when buying a game that says "i am not a resident of Hawaii" right next to "i agree to the terms of service" and everything will continue like it's been.[/QUOTE] Yeah, there's no way to enforce the 21 y/o thing online, and even in retail stores your average kid will have their parent with them anyway to get around the ESRB. That part will just end up hurting physical stores since young adults suddenly can't buy some new games there. Amazon and Steam and such will know where you are via billing addresses, but you can just lie about your age. Unless they start requiring you to send in your ID to buy games online it'll be a very pointless law. The labeling and chance disclosure parts are the only real thing of value here.

[QUOTE=Rummy.SM;53130176]At this point i ask, Will the ESRB/ESA Actually go back on what they said? Wasn't the story of how the ESRB was even made was to avoid Government Meddling? With laws being made against Loot Boxes they should really cut their losses and actually self-regulate it. But sadly i'm not optimistic on that end. Anyway to discourage Loot Boxes is a plus for me.[/QUOTE] It wasn't that they wanted to avoid government meddling iirc, but because it didn't fall under government definitions. They also won't care much about hawaii on their own.

[QUOTE=The freeman;53130203]Yeah, there's no way to enforce the 21 y/o thing online, and even in retail stores your average kid will have their parent with them anyway to get around the ESRB. That part will just end up hurting physical stores since young adults suddenly can't buy some new games there. Amazon and Steam and such will know where you are via billing addresses, but you can just lie about your age. Unless they start requiring you to send in your ID to buy games online it'll be a very pointless law. The labeling and chance disclosure parts are the only real thing of value here.[/QUOTE] You don't actually need to give your billing address to buy stuff on steam.

Couldn't they just get around this by putting a DOB check when you boot up a game?

ESRB could start rating them AO, since you need to be 18 to gamble(In fact the AO rating already covers gambling with real money). Publishers HATE AO ratings and will usually do whatever they can to avoid them.

[QUOTE=Cliff2;53131061]ESRB could start rating them AO, since you need to be 18 to gamble(In fact the AO rating already covers gambling with real money). Publishers HATE AO ratings and will usually do whatever they can to avoid them.[/QUOTE] The publishers own the ESRB, so they won’t do that.