Third-graders are selling AR-15 raffle tickets in Missouri

[Gazhelmet]

[t]http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/v2dy0p/picture200763094/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/Capture3[/t]

[QUOTE]Third-graders in a Missouri community are continuing to sell raffle tickets for an AR-15 to benefit their traveling baseball team after the same type of rifle was used to slaughter and injure dozens at a Florida school.

Levi Patterson, the coach of a 9-and-under baseball team in Neosho, Mo., told The Star the idea was conceived before the shooting in Parkland, Fla.

A father of one of the players — who co-founded Black Rain Ordnance Inc., a weapons purveyor in Neosho — offered the weapon for the raffle.

Patterson said by phone Saturday that he considered finding a different raffle item after Wednesday’s mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, but ultimately decided to “turn it into a positive thing” after “getting the hate.”

“One of the people from the hate group turned in (a Facebook post about the raffle) for I don’t know what,” Patterson said. The post had shown a weapon next to the school logo, leading to fierce criticism by some until Facebook removed the post, according to Patterson.

After this story was published, Patterson said he mistakenly said the critics were part of a hate group. He said he does not view them as a hate group but as a concerned group that has “every right to stand up for what they believe in.”

“I applaud them for standing up for what they believe in. I just think they have feelings to this specific type of gun (that are) different than people around here do,” he said.

Patterson said donations have poured in as the criticism reached a peak following the Florida shooting; people from as far away as Colorado offered to buy tickets on Facebook.

The perpetrator in Florida killed 17 people and injured at least 14 with an AR-15 in six minutes.

“Are you all tone deaf?” wrote Dan Weaver in a comment on Patterson’s page. “AR15 kills seventeen so you raffle a gun for child sports? Lord, people wake the hell up. Justify all you want but you are wrong, period.”[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
Patterson responded by writing that “gun raffles have been going on for years. Evil has and will always exist. Our hearts break for those involved, and we do not take that lightly.”

He also told The Star that he was not making a political statement with the raffle item. It was simply what had been offered by Black Rain.

He said critics view the weapon as a “killing machine.” On Wednesday, Patterson took to Facebook to fire back at the “concerned group” critical of the raffle.

“We appreciate your ‘concern’ but please understand, we are not, have not, and will not force one of our boys to sell raffle tickets for the Black Rain AR15 Spec 15, if they are uncomfortable doing so,” he wrote.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article200763099.html[/url]

[MR-X]

Making non-issues into issues. They were given a donation and are doing a raffle to raise money for the team. The recent shooting is horrible, but this is completely unrelated to the incident and should remain unrelated.

[Whibble]

Who cares? As long as the buyer/raffle-ees are legally able to obtain a firearm and have some sort of background check/FFL transfer done it's no different than them going out and buying one if they so chose. Unfortunate timing given Florida, but how are they supposed to help that? Let selling a legal rifle to a legal owner benefit the hell out of some baseball playing kids if they want to.

Also a reminder that while the AR-15 is blown up as a mass murdering death machine in the US, rifles (not just AR-15s, but literally rifles as a whole) are responsible for killing less than 300 people a year in the US. To put that in perspective, deaths from fistfights are 600, and heart disease is 600,000.

[Da Big Man]

I think of all the things that children could be using to raise money, doing a *firearm raffle* is kinda not a thing children should be involved in. I don't care if it's a school in the gun loving bible belt doing it that's no excuse either.

[Whibble]

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;53142339]I think of all the things that children could be using to raise money, doing a *firearm raffle* is kinda not a thing children should be involved in. I don't care if it's a school in the gun loving bible belt doing it that's no excuse either.[/QUOTE]

give a non ambiguous reason to back this claim up

[editline]18th February 2018[/editline]

how are the children even involved, it's just a raffle for THEIR baseball team. its not like they're walking around the streets and offering it to people themselves

[Lime-alicious]

Not really anything wrong with it, except for the timing.

[Nahash]

What's the problem with this? They aren't going to give it to anyone who doesn't have a license

[Da Big Man]

[QUOTE=Whibble;53142343][b]how are the children even involved[/b], it's just a raffle for THEIR baseball team. its not like they're walking around the streets and offering it to people themselves[/QUOTE]

[quote]Third-graders in a Missouri community are continuing to sell raffle tickets for an AR-15[/quote]

It's literally the first sentence of the article??

[crashlapine]

an elementary school baseball team, raising money, by raffling off a gun

I can't find words to describe the mix of emotions i'm feeling between "what the fuck, why a gun of all things, why THAT gun" and "this is so hilariously on-brand for america"

life has surpassed satire, etc. etc.

[SuperToaster]

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;53142339]I think of all the things that children could be using to raise money, doing a *firearm raffle* is kinda not a thing children should be involved in. I don't care if it's a school in the gun loving bible belt doing it that's no excuse either.[/QUOTE]

Why not? They're not actively handling the rifle, they're just raising money for their team, and what better way of doing that than raffling a gun?

You'd be surprised how much money can be gathered through gun raffling, the gun store owners are just trying to help out the team by being generous and donating a gun to whomever wins

You guys are acting like this rifle is some vile thing

[crashlapine]

like, whatever, take the kids out of the equation

correct me if i'm wrong here, but an AR-15 is based off a military-grade weapon designed for use in warfare. like sure, the AR-15 itself can be considered 'civilian-grade', but that sure as hell doesn't make it some toy that should ever just be Given Away To One Lucky Winner

[Grenadiac]

[QUOTE=cebceb44;53142380]like, whatever, take the kids out of the equation

correct me if i'm wrong here, but an AR-15 is based off a military-grade weapon designed for use in warfare. like sure, the AR-15 itself can be considered 'civilian-grade', but that sure as hell doesn't make it some toy that should ever just be Given Away To One Lucky Winner[/QUOTE]

You are wrong. The AR-15 was designed in the late 1950s as a next generation sporting rifle and continued to be manufactured and sold as such from the early 60s on. It was adopted by the military after the fact.

I wish the "military grade assault rifle!!!!" thing would die already. The truth is literally a google search away.

[SuperToaster]

[QUOTE=cebceb44;53142380]like, whatever, take the kids out of the equation

correct me if i'm wrong here, but an AR-15 is based off a military-grade weapon designed for use in warfare. like sure, the AR-15 itself can be considered 'civilian-grade', but that sure as hell doesn't make it some toy that should ever just be Given Away To One Lucky Winner[/QUOTE]

I'm still not seeing the issue. The AR-15 of any brand is the most common rifle in the entirety of the United States, it's not like it's just given away, it still has to be passed through an FFL who will background check the individual that won it

[OvB]

Well it's a private baseball team, not like a school sports team, and the gun was donated for the raffle by a father of a player who also happens to be co-founder of the rifle company. The rifle in question is at least $899 bucks so that's a pretty high priced item for a $5 dollar raffle, and probably a well known and coveted item in the local community since the guns also come from there.

I mean if you wanna raise money in rural Missouri, a rifles probably not a bad idea... I can see why some people are upset with it being a kid thing, though. The team and family of the team obviously deemed it appropriate enough and if they wanna do it I couldn't care less.

[url]https://blackrainordnance.com/collections/spec-series/firearm+223-5-56[/url]

I mean I'd buy a $5 ticket for that rifle...

[crashlapine]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53142383]You are wrong. The AR-15 was designed in the late 1950s as a next generation sporting rifle and continued to be manufactured and sold as such from the early 60s on. It was adopted by the military after the fact.[/quote]
my mistake then, but like, other guns exist. there are literally hundreds of options. I'd just like to know, why this gun in particular?

[quote]I wish the "military grade assault rifle!!!!" thing would die already. The truth is literally a google search away.[/QUOTE]
look, if it gets widespread adoption among the U.S. military, it can be considered military-grade, because it became the standard that the military relied on, regardless of time period or length.

[Ganerumo]

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53142367]Beggers can't be choosers. Most teams rely on companies donating something for them to raffle or sell, in order to get uniforms/ equipment. In this case they were donated a rifle to raffle.

Its either sell the rifle to someone (via an FFL for legal reasons), or don't make any money.[/QUOTE]

I just think it's weird weaponry would end up being distributed via a children's raffle, especially a fucking AR-15 of all things. I'll give it to the company that they make some nifty looking guns but surely just giving them the money directly ought to be a better idea at this point ?

[Grenadiac]

[QUOTE=cebceb44;53142398]my mistake then, but like, other guns exist. there are literally hundreds of options. I'd just like to know, why this gun in particular?

look, if it gets widespread adoption among the U.S. military, it can be considered military-grade, because it became the standard that the military relied on, regardless of time period or length.[/QUOTE]

Why not this gun? The father of one of the players has a hand in manufacturing it so he can get this nearly thousand-dollar rifle at way less than retail for the raffle.

I don't get the squeamishness around AR-15s and I guess I never will. It's just another type of rifle. As someone who owns one, I don't assign any particular extra value to it. It's just another sporting rifle among a few that I own. I like to shoot it sometimes because it's a softer shooting gun than the heavier Mausers and stuff that I also have.

[Boaraes]

This in itself is just so inoffensive. Gun raffles have been a thing for a very long time. What is offensive is that people have the audacity to forcefully relate it to a shooting.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;53142401]I just think it's weird weaponry would end up being distributed via a children's raffle, especially a fucking AR-15 of all things. I'll give it to the company that they make some nifty looking guns but surely just giving them the money directly ought to be a better idea at this point ?[/QUOTE]

I seriously don't understand why the AR-15 invokes responses like these. Is it because it looks scary or what? Would you rather prefer a Mini-14 or something?

[Zombinie]

[QUOTE=cebceb44;53142398]my mistake then, but like, other guns exist. there are literally hundreds of options. I'd just like to know, why this gun in particular?
[/QUOTE]

Because the AR-15 is the honda civic of the firearms world. But it can also be the Ferrari. It is simple to maintain and teach about safety with, fun to shoot at the range, affordable for an entry gun (or expensive once you know what kind of AR-15 you really want), customizeable to all hell because it's essentially LEGO with the amount of aftermarket parts available so it's fun for tinkerers, perfect for hunting certain animals (not all, some say it is too weak to reliably drop larger deer without excellent accuracy), and perfect for home defense.

That's why it's so popular. Because if you ask your average gun owner "OK, let's say you can only own one gun forever" they would probably pick the AR-15 because it is the jack of all trades.

[crashlapine]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53142402]Why not this gun? The father of one of the players has a hand in manufacturing it so he can get this nearly thousand-dollar rifle at way less than retail for the raffle.

I don't get the squeamishness around AR-15s and I guess I never will. It's just another type of rifle. As someone who owns one, I don't assign any particular extra value to it.[/QUOTE]

"why not this gun" is because it's being handled through a children's raffle. literal grade-schoolers who can't be trusted with their own fundraising box of chocolates. doesn't matter if the kids never come into contact with it, it's just very poorly thought out as far as optics and context goes

if he wanted to raffle away that gun for publicity or fundraising, he could've done so through a facebook page not affiliated with 10 year olds

[SuperToaster]

[QUOTE=cebceb44;53142414]"why not this gun" is because it's being handled through a children's raffle. literal grade-schoolers who can't be trusted with their own fundraising box of chocolates. doesn't matter if the kids never come into contact with it, it's just very poorly thought out as far as optics and context goes

if he wanted to raffle away that gun for publicity or fundraising, he could've done so through a facebook page not affiliated with 10 year olds[/QUOTE]

I mean in their defense, raffling when you're a kid it's mostly the parents (in my experience) that handle the tickets and spread awareness about it

And I mean it's not like a kid is going to win the raffle :v: it's just parents and adults supporting their local teams

[Zombinie]

[QUOTE=cebceb44;53142414]"why not this gun" is because it's being handled through a children's raffle. literal grade-schoolers who can't be trusted with their own fundraising box of chocolates. doesn't matter if the kids never come into contact with it, it's just very poorly thought out as far as optics and context goes

if he wanted to raffle away that gun for publicity or fundraising, he could've done so through a facebook page not affiliated with 10 year olds[/QUOTE]

It's not like it's the 10 year old kids who are going to be receiving this rifle, they are just selling tickets or advertising.

[Unclejimmema]

[QUOTE=The golden;53142335]This isn't related to the recent shooting at all and is entirely separate.

But still... what the fuck? 9 (and under) year olds raffling off an assault rifle? What the absolute fuck? Why was this item even accepted as a donation? I'm guessing this is an American gun culture thing because I don't get it.[/QUOTE]

It is something you don't get. Many children grow up with, around, and shoot guns. AR-15's are usually the second rifle kids shoot, behind .22's, because of their low recoil and easy customization to smaller frames. Kids here hunt, shoot competitively in both target style and 3-gun, and compete in things such as trap shooting in schools. What you find disgusting is literally a normal thing here for hundreds of thousands of Americans.

[evilweazel]

[QUOTE=The golden;53142335]This isn't related to the recent shooting at all and is entirely separate.

But still... what the fuck? 9 (and under) year olds raffling off an assault rifle? What the absolute fuck? Why was this item even accepted as a donation? I'm guessing this is an American gun culture thing because I don't get it.[/QUOTE]

Because it's a high dollar, hot ticket item that probably a ton of people in that community would go for. I can't think of a ton of things that might sell more tickets in any ruralish area than a decent spec gat besides like, a pickup from the local ford dealer.

[QUOTE]“I applaud them for standing up for what they believe in. I just think they have feelings to this specific type of gun (that are) different than people around here do,” he said.

Patterson said donations have poured in as the criticism reached a peak following the Florida shooting; people from as far away as Colorado offered to buy tickets on Facebook.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't sound all that unreasonable to me. In fact, it sounds like it's working out pretty well as far as tickets go. Maybe I'll get one. I doubt a tray of cookies from the local bakery sells many tickets across state lines. :v: :v: :v:

Like, what reason is there for the school to turn it away besides "well some people will be SPOOPED, maybe"? It's a cool thing for a local business to do. I doubt a travel baseball team in Missouri has all the funds they could ever need, so why not let them do it? Probably all the kids on the team have been around or shot similar.

[Grenadiac]

With regards to "it's military grade because it was adopted by the military" that logic is absolutely empty. We're just supposed to stop using/selling things on the civilian market that were adopted by the US military? Is the Chevy C10 "military grade" because the Army used them in the 80s? That makes no sense.

Even things that were designed specifically for a military application are not necessarily any better than something made for the civilian market. The Army's Beretta M92s are stock standard pistols, nowhere near as high quality or fully-featured as many of the configurations for the same gun available to civilians. The military uses the AR-15 derived M4 because it's cheap and good enough to get the job done, not because it particularly excels at anything. There are much better rifles on the civilian market.

"Military grade" is a meaningless buzzword. Anyone who's served will tell you "military grade" would be a better insult than a compliment.

[OvB]

[QUOTE=cebceb44;53142414]"why not this gun" is because it's being handled through a children's raffle. literal grade-schoolers who can't be trusted with their own fundraising box of chocolates. doesn't matter if the kids never come into contact with it, it's just very poorly thought out as far as optics and context goes

if he wanted to raffle away that gun for publicity or fundraising, he could've done so through a facebook page not affiliated with 10 year olds[/QUOTE]

I handled guns before I turned 10. Typically in a setting where dad was teaching me how not to be stupid with them. An AR-15 probably isn't the best choice for a kids first ever experience with a gun but it's probably nothing they can't handle if they're with a responsible parent.

I have a hunch that if the team was this associated with a literal arms manufacturer that these kids were probably raised similarly.

[J.C.DentonUNATCO]

[QUOTE=OvB;53142425]I handled guns before I turned 10. Typically in a setting where dad was teaching me how not to be stupid with them. An AR-15 probably isn't the best choice for a kids first ever experience with a gun but it's probably nothing they can't handle if they're with a responsible parent.

I have a hunch that if the team was this associated with a literal arms manufacturer that these kids were probably raised similarly.[/QUOTE]

I mean heres the explanation right here.

[quote]A father of one of the players — who co-founded Black Rain Ordnance Inc., a weapons purveyor in Neosho — offered the weapon for the raffle.[/quote]

He had something to raise money with and so he put it out there. I mean it's unfortunate I guess that the shooting happened in Florida but these events are completely unrelated and there are probably thousands of gun raffles going on at any moment, this one just happens to be promoted by some kids.

If you see every single firearm as a nefarious tool ready to kill innocents it's pretty obvious that you're going to see this article and be outraged. I mean people are still having to be told that AR does not in fact stand for Assault Rifle.

[evilweazel]

[QUOTE=The golden;53142365]Irrelevant detail. It's still 9 year olds selling gun tickets. Which to me is just disgusting.[/QUOTE]

Local impoverished baseball team decides take the moral high ground and burn money gained from gun raffle in the name of world peace, the greater good, and some guys hand wringing on humble GMod forum

[Nahash]

[QUOTE=OvB;53142396]Well it's a private baseball team, not like a school sports team, and the gun was donated for the raffle by a father of a player who also happens to be co-founder of the rifle company. The rifle in question is at least $899 bucks so that's a pretty high priced item for a $5 dollar raffle, and probably a well known and coveted item in the local community since the guns also come from there.

I mean if you wanna raise money in rural Missouri, a rifles probably not a bad idea... I can see why some people are upset with it being a kid thing, though. The team and family of the team obviously deemed it appropriate enough and if they wanna do it I couldn't care less.

[url]https://blackrainordnance.com/collections/spec-series/firearm+223-5-56[/url]

I mean I'd buy a $5 ticket for that rifle...[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0896/1628/products/BRO-SPEC15-NY-R_1400x1400.jpg?v=1491249059[/IMG]

this poor rifle

[crashlapine]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53142421]With regards to "it's military grade because it was adopted by the military" that logic is absolutely empty. We're just supposed to stop using/selling things on the civilian market that were adopted by the US military? Is the Chevy C10 "military grade" because the Army used them in the 80s? That makes no sense.

Even things that were designed specifically for a military application are not necessarily any better than something made for the civilian market. The Army's Beretta M92s are stock standard pistols, nowhere near as high quality or fully-featured as many of the configurations for the same gun available to civilians. The military uses the AR-15 derived M4 because it's cheap and good enough to get the job done, not because it particularly excels at anything. There are much better rifles on the civilian market.[/QUOTE]

i'm referring to it as 'military-grade' because the boost in muzzle velocity, compared to a handgun, means anything you shoot gets torn up like tissue paper. unlike with handguns, whose bullets often stop at the bone (and sure, it's messy, but proper medical treatment works wonders), rounds fired off from one of these pass right through. it's why this gun is constantly making headlines with it's high body count when used in mass shootings. sure, it's unfortunate as hell that the apparent 'swiss army knife of guns' gets a bad rap, but for things like self-defense, it's overkill.

christ, [I]i live here[/I], and i still don't understand america's gun thing