Muslim converts breathe new life into Europe’s struggling Christian churches - Sensationalist Headlines

[IMG]http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.com/content/fox-news/world/2017/03/21/muslim-converts-breathe-new-life-into-europe-s-struggling-christian-churches/_jcr_content/par/featured_image/media-0.img.jpg/876/493/1490106744527.jpg?ve=1&tl=1[/IMG] [QUOTE]Muslims protest against the terror of the Islamic State militants after the Friday pray in Berlin, Germany, Friday, Sept. 19, 2014. The Central Council of Muslims in Germany called for rallies against the terror in nine German cites. (AP Photo/Markus Schreiber) (The Associated Press)[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Christianity is making a comeback in Europe – and it’s mostly thanks to Muslims, say experts in Islam and faith leaders. A soaring number of Muslims, many of them refugees from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, are converting to Christianity, breathing new life into Europe’s once floundering Christian churches. The Muslims are flocking to various Christian denominations, experts said, including becoming Protestants, evangelical or Catholic. As many parts of Europe are becoming more secular and houses of worship are seeing congregants leave in droves, it is Muslim converts who are reviving struggling Christian churches. [...] “Europeans are wealthy, comfortable, healthy, and powerful,” Kaemingk said. “In short, they don't think they need God.” But, he added, Muslim immigrants are quite the opposite – they are intensely spiritual. But they are leaving their own religion for a variety of reasons. Some Muslim refugees settling in European counties may be converting on the assumption that their odds for obtaining political asylum will improve if they are Christian, according to the Guardian. Others may have had an earlier interest in converting but were unable to do so while they lived in the Middle East, where conversions are often prohibited and could make the family a target. Some jihadist groups, including ISIS, target Christians for murder in such countries as Syria and Iraq. Others are turning to Christianity to assimilate in their new country. “The average Muslim newcomer in Europe experiences a tremendous amount of societal pressure. They experience racism, poverty, exclusion, discrimination, language and cultural barriers, and a deep sense of displacement,” Kaemingk said. “Their sense of homelessness is not only geographical, it is spiritual. Churches who offer these Muslims real and meaningful hospitality are seeing some surprising results."[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/03/21/muslim-converts-breathe-new-life-into-europe-s-struggling-christian-churches.html[/url]

If people are finding solace and improving their lives because of it, then I'm glad.

So if all the brown people become Christian, who's going to war against Christmas?

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;51993362]So if all the brown people become Christian, who's going to war against Christmas?[/QUOTE] Uh, liberals, obviously?

[QUOTE=Riller;51993366]Uh, liberals, obviously?[/QUOTE] I think it was a set up for a Grinch reference

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51993369]I think it was a set up for a Grinch reference[/QUOTE] Little column a, little column b.

I was rather enjoying Christianity's decline though

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;51993362]So if all the brown people become Christian, who's going to war against Christmas?[/QUOTE] Those bastards at Starbucks always got something up their sleeve.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51993428]I was rather enjoying Christianity's decline though[/QUOTE] Christianity never declined globally, just in western countries. Even if the refugee crisis didn't happen there's still some rapidly growing churches in Asia and it's not going anywhere in africa.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51993428]I was rather enjoying Christianity's decline though[/QUOTE] I could care less in what ones religion is. I just want to see a drop in extremism

[QUOTE=da space core;51993523]I could care less in what ones religion is. I just want to see a drop in extremism[/QUOTE] As long as the former exists in a large way the other will always exist, they pretty much go hand in hand whether you like it or not.

[QUOTE=Aredbomb;51993509]Christianity never declined globally, just in western countries. Even if the refugee crisis didn't happen there's still some rapidly growing churches in Asia and it's not going anywhere in africa.[/QUOTE] chinas got a huge pop of religious folks but the communist government has decided they name the leaders of their religions, be it their own dali lama or selecting their own bishops

this seems very positive [QUOTE=carcarcargo;51993537]As long as the former exists in a large way the other will always exist, they pretty much go hand in hand whether you like it or not.[/QUOTE] extremism will exist regardless

[QUOTE=idiot;51993579]extremism will exist regardless[/QUOTE] The only reason we've seen such an increase in liberal ideals is because of religious decline. If you want to reverse that then by all means.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51993590]The only reason we've seen such an increase in liberal ideals is because of religious decline. If you want to reverse that then by all means.[/QUOTE] Yes, that's the only reason why there are more liberal ideals. The USSR was a liberal paradise because of their atheistic government. :smile:

[QUOTE=Fayez;51993615]Yes, that's the only reason why there are more liberal ideals. The USSR was a liberal paradise because of their atheistic government. :smile:[/QUOTE] It certainly contributed, you'd never have seen gay marriage without a decline in Christianity.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51993619]It certainly contributed, you'd never have seen gay marriage without a decline in Christianity.[/QUOTE] Correlation does not equal causation.

[QUOTE=Fayez;51993621]Correlation does not equal causation.[/QUOTE] Well it kind of does when Christianity directly opposes homosexuality, and is a big contributor to it's continued oppression in the US.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51993633]Well it kind of does when Christianity directly opposes homosexuality, and is a big contributor to it's continued oppression in the US.[/QUOTE] Christianity is not a homogeneous blob, you know. Many Churches are fine with gays in the US. You still haven't answered why the USSR wasn't a liberal paradise because of their state sanctioned atheism.

[QUOTE=Fayez;51993651]Christianity is not a homogeneous blob, you know. Many Churches are fine with gays in the US. You still haven't answered why the USSR wasn't a liberal paradise because of their state sanctioned atheism.[/QUOTE] It's beliefs are inherently tied to the bible, which holds a lot of bigoted sentiment. Churches can choose to ignore it, but I'd argue they're just being disingenuous. It's foundation principles and morals are bigoted and contribute to a significant amount of bigotry globally.

[QUOTE=Fayez;51993651]Christianity is not a homogeneous blob, you know. Many Churches are fine with gays in the US. You still haven't answered why the USSR wasn't a liberal paradise because of their state sanctioned atheism.[/QUOTE] You don't need religious rule when you got draconian state rule.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51993669]It's beliefs are inherently tied to the bible, which holds a lot of bigoted sentiment. Churches can choose to ignore it, but I'd argue they're just being disingenuous. It's foundation principles and morals are bigoted and contribute to a significant amount of bigotry globally.[/QUOTE] They're aren't choosing to ignore it, they are interpreting it in a different way by the historical and cultural context in which the Bible was written. Haha, dude, you aren't seriously suggesting that if the Bible wasn't written, or that if humans never became religious, the world would be a less bigoted place. Religion is just one of the many excuses for bigotry, remove it and people will come up with another.

[QUOTE=Fayez;51993685]They're aren't choosing to ignore it, they are interpreting it in a different way by the historical and cultural context in which the Bible was written. Haha, dude, you aren't seriously suggesting that if the Bible wasn't written, or that if humans never became religious, the world would be a less bigoted place. Religion is just one of the many excuses for bigotry, remove it and people will come up with another.[/QUOTE] It would be a whole lot harder to indoctrinate people if there didn't exist a socially acceptable tool to do it.

I feel stupid for not getting why the NS tag was put in here....

[QUOTE=Fayez;51993685]They're aren't choosing to ignore it, they are interpreting it in a different way by the historical and cultural context in which the Bible was written. Haha, dude, you aren't seriously suggesting that if the Bible wasn't written, or that if humans never became religious, the world would be a less bigoted place. Religion is just one of the many excuses for bigotry, remove it and people will come up with another.[/QUOTE] So? That's like saying get rid of nazism people will come up with another reason to be bigoted. And quite honestly the idea of "interpretation" is nonsense, it's just deliberately ignoring bits they don't like. I mean you could interpret Mein Kampf as being projew if you try hard enough. If they really do believe being gay isn't wrong they should be distancing themselves from Christianity not embracing it.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51993590]The only reason we've seen such an increase in liberal ideals is because of religious decline. If you want to reverse that then by all means.[/QUOTE] You do realize that these people were Muslim before, right? They were already religious

Christianity has quite a lot of similar problems to Islam, and Judaism as well. The fundamentalists of the holy book are the grating, loud voices in a chamber of a wide spectrum of people, from the extremely holy book-thumping crowd to the liberal area. Unfortunately, in a lot of major religions, reactionary conservatism is a major problem. It's why you see a lot of far-right Christian groups in Europe either supporting Jewish interests or Islamic ones, because they've mixed up their allies and enemies (hint hint, they're the same). Like I've said before, Christian conservatives afraid of Muslims is super hilarious to me, because they have the exact same beliefs and thoughts, they just pick a different flavor of holiness. It's been rather difficult as a liberal Muslim attempting to talk rationally in order to both bolster relations with nearby Christian communities and to reform my own Islamic society. Some older Muslims don't really give a shit, they believe in what they believe, and anything else is a direct threat and hearsay to Allah. Thankfully, younger Muslims that I've met and taught across the world are much more lenient and secular, while still not abandoning their roots or faith. It's a changing world. I don't think religion is necessarily as iron-locked as it was previously. I have a lot of hope for upcoming generations, where liberalism is shown to have a greater influence, even in religious communities. There's always going to be differing sides, but I think traditionalism is sputtering out here in the United States, in a lot of synagogues, mosques, and churches.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51993696]So? That's like saying get rid of nazism people will come up with another reason to be bigoted. And quite honestly the idea of "interpretation" is nonsense, it's just deliberately ignoring bits they don't like. I mean you could interpret Mein Kampf as being projew if you try hard enough. If they really do believe being gay isn't wrong they should be distancing themselves from Christianity not embracing it.[/QUOTE] Have you read the Bible? You act as if it's Mein Kamf, but for gays. Trust me, Jesus didn't say "You must love your neighbor as yourself—except if he's a fag." Yea, sure, you're going to get a ton of support from people by saying "want to support me? abandon something you may hold dear because I don't like it." [QUOTE]And quite honestly the idea of "interpretation" is nonsense, it's just deliberately ignoring bits they don't like. [/QUOTE] Oh Lord. The only interpretation allowed is the absolute literal one? That is so completely ridiculous that it doesn't deserve a response.

[QUOTE=Fayez;51993738]Have you read the Bible? You act as if it's Mein Kamf, but for gays. Trust me, Jesus didn't say "You must love your neighbor as yourself—except if he's a fag." Yea, sure, you're going to get a ton of support from people by saying "want to support me? abandon something you may hold dear because I don't like it." Oh Lord. The only interpretation allowed is the absolute literal one? That is so completely ridiculous that it doesn't deserve a response.[/QUOTE] Yes I have read the bible, I grew up as a Christian so I had a lot of it and it's morals drilled into my head from a young age. I get the impression most of Christianity's defenders did not, which is why they don't understand peoples issues with it. Paul was far from pleasant about homosexuals, and coupled with Christianity's moral objectivism it produces much of the bigotry we see today. It contains bigoted sentiment in a similar way mein kampf does, I mostly use mein kampf because it's a text literally nobody would dare defend no matter how someone claimed to interpret it, so I don't see why the bible and Christianity (and to much extent islam as well) should get a free pass.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51993590]The only reason we've seen such an increase in liberal ideals is because of religious decline. If you want to reverse that then by all means.[/QUOTE] Your post doesn't really logically follow what I said, I didn't advocate for theocracy or claim that secularism is bad. Prior to Western secular thought being developed many of those ideas were unique solely to Christianity.