Netflix - Making A Murderer (The story of a grievous miscarriage of American justice) - Film, Television and Music

[img]http://i.imgur.com/463orvR.jpg?1[/img] I did some searching and couldn't find anything about this. I'm surprised because it is huge right now and [sp]there is massive global outcry and cooperative seeking to getting him set free and finding the real perpetrator(s).[/sp] I'm going to try to summarise without being too long or giving too much away. Making A Murderer is a 10 part Netflix Original documentary series about Steven Avery, a man who was wrongfully convicted of rape. It also covers a second case in which Avery was charged for the rape and murder of a 25 year old photographer in 2005, [sp]for which he is currently serving life in prison without the possibility of parole.[/sp] There is an overwhelming amount of controversy surrounding this man's life, both investigations, and trials, especially the one for murder. Back in 1985, Steven Avery, then in his early twenties, was accused of assaulting and raping a woman named Penny Beerntsen, a well known and respected member of the Manitowoc County community in Wisconsin. Despite some controversy surrounding the investigation, including a suspicious facial composite that seemed to be based on Avery's appearance in a prior mugshot, Avery was found guilty based on Penny's identification of him during a suspect lineup and her testimony at his trial. [Avery's mugshot after being arrested for the rape]: [img]http://i.imgur.com/azIeJyj.jpg?1[/img] Steven spent [i][b]18 years[/b][/i] in prison for this crime before DNA evidence pointed to another man named Gregory Allen, whose prior sexual assaults were known to police and he was known to be in the area at the time the rape took place. Steven also had a solid alibi, as confirmed by family members' testimony and a time and date stamped receipt. He was finally exonerated and released on Sept. 11, 2003. [Steven at the time of his release, then 41 years old]: [img]http://i.imgur.com/kysjSdK.png?1[/img] Steven returns home to the Avery property where most of his family lives, and where the family business is: Avery Brothers Salvage. He tries getting his life back on track, and part of doing that is suing the county and certain officers that were part of the investigation, for the amount of $25,000 for every year he spent in prison. A lawyer later filed a lawsuit for the substantial amount of $36 million on October 12th, 2005. It seemed everything was coming up Avery. Then on October 31st, 2005, a photographer by the name of Teresa Halbach was scheduled to meet with Avery and take pictures of a van he wanted to sell via Auto Trader, whom Teresa worked for. She was at his home and took pictures of the van, then left. Later that day, Teresa went missing. Her vehicle was found on the Avery salvage lot on November 5th, 2005 by a member of a search party that was looking for her. An investigation was launched and then tragically, what remained of her burned skeleton was found in Steven Avery's fire pit behind his garage. He was arrested and charged with her murder on November 11th, 2005. Most of the documentary focuses on the murder case and trial, and the controversy surrounding it. A lot of things in the trial don't add up and it seems as if Avery is about to do time for another crime he may not have committed. His defense argues that he was framed by the Manitowoc Sheriff Department officers who were involved in his prior conviction, since they and the county were now on the hook for $36 million. It is a must watch that I highly recommend. There's much, much more to it than what I've provided here. I'll be surprised if anyone who watches it doesn't come back to discuss, express outrage, ask a million questions and speculate about what they think really happened. Steven Avery's Wikipedia entry (obviously contains spoilers): [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Avery[/url] M.A.M. Reddit page: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/makingamurderer[/url]

I got a headache from watching this sheerly due to absurdity of the trial, the injustice and the outrage I felt. It's the kind of trainwreck that makes you want to look away but you simply can't. It's probably one of the best documentaries I have ever seen however I am not sure if I could recommend watching it simply due to how frustrating it can be at times.

I took one good look at Halbach's ex-boyfriend, and I saw the killer right there

When the Sherrif said "We could have him eliminated if we wanted" live on television I had to pause it and just laugh at the absurdity of what had just happened.

[QUOTE=gary spivey;49501581]I took one good look at Halbach's ex-boyfriend, and I saw the killer right there[/QUOTE] I don't think the appropriate response to a man being tried for murder because he "totes looks like he woulda dun it" is to point the blame at others based on very little evidence. Even if I felt like speculating he wouldn't be my first choice. The halbech brother seems to enjoy the media spotlight far too much and the "effectiveness" of the halbech search party is highly suspect.

[QUOTE=Murky42;49507603]I don't think the appropriate response to a man being tried for murder because he "totes looks like he woulda dun it" is to point the blame at others based on very little evidence. Even if I felt like speculating he wouldn't be my first choice. The halbech brother seems to enjoy the media spotlight far too much and the "effectiveness" of the halbech search party is highly suspect.[/QUOTE] He was a member of the search party as far as I remember

This was physically painful to watch, but so, so addictive. You'll spend most of your timing raging at the TV. The producers did an interview with some more background on where things are now (sorry, buzzfeed link): [url]http://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwieselman/making-a-murderer-burning-questions-answered[/url]

When are Jerry Buting and Dean Strang getting their own show? Jerry is too based to not be on tv.

an interview with his ex has just come out, which might change your perspective on the case. Spoilers, obviously. [video=youtube;HTz673OMTF0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTz673OMTF0[/video] [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/making-a-murderer-steven-avery-is-not-innocent-of-teresa-halbachs-murder-says-ex-fiancee-jodi-a6812411.html"] article[/URL] Supposedly other evidence the series left out: [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/making-a-murderer-all-the-evidence-against-steven-avery-the-netflic-show-missed-out-a6807961.html"]article 2[/URL]

yeah but there's also evidence against a lot of the evidence that that article brings up [url]http://www.avclub.com/article/read-pro-steven-avery-list-what-was-left-out-makin-230634[/url] I still believe he is innocent, if there was deer blood in the garage then Avery clearly didn't clean it after supposedly murdering Halbach + all the other shit the article i linked mentions that interview with brendan was also complete shit, my mother is a psychologist who teaches police how to interrogate properly and can be called in if judges or lawyers want to know if an interview is actually worth something, and she was shocked throughout the entire thing I'm not even a psychologist and I could tell brendan was just guessing until the cops got what they wanted to hear [editline]14th January 2016[/editline] i mean steven is clearly a weird guy but i don't think he's guilty

oh good another bias article about ALL THE EVIDENCE THE SHOW MISSED OUT featuring a lot of evidence the show didn't miss out

Besides whether he is guilty or not is irrelevant. The real question that matters in a courtroom system is could you prove that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Due to all of the madness in the trial I'd say reasonable doubt exists.

This show ripped my heart out. I'm honestly not sure how I feel. Of course I hope and wish they are both innocent, but if they aren't, that won't disregard all the shady shit happening (Kratz, Theresa's brother/ex/etc). Jodi's interview doesn't do anything for me. She seems to just be in it for media attention, and to further damage his reputation.

It was super entertaining and well made, but I think the call to innocence across the country that came from it is kinda crazy. It obviously has an agenda and is super biased. Besides leaving crucial prosecution evidence out, it actually managed to cleverly make evidence against Avery look like it was in favor of him through some clever editing. So yeah it was a fun binge watch, but after seeing the real story, I have no doubt Steven did it. I don't think it's totally out of the question that the police may have "helped" it along a little though. Brendan I'm still torn about. I don't think there was enough evidence to convict him regardless of if he did or not.

[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;49531500]yeah but there's also evidence against a lot of the evidence that that article brings up [url]http://www.avclub.com/article/read-pro-steven-avery-list-what-was-left-out-makin-230634[/url] I still believe he is innocent, if there was deer blood in the garage then Avery clearly didn't clean it after supposedly murdering Halbach + all the other shit the article i linked mentions that interview with brendan was also complete shit, my mother is a psychologist who teaches police how to interrogate properly and can be called in if judges or lawyers want to know if an interview is actually worth something, and she was shocked throughout the entire thing I'm not even a psychologist and I could tell brendan was just guessing until the cops got what they wanted to hear [editline]14th January 2016[/editline] i mean steven is clearly a weird guy but i don't think he's guilty[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what to make of Brendan. It sounds like he's just going along with what the police want him to say a lot of the time. But he's the one who requested to talk to the police in the first place. Why did he do that if he had zero knowledge of what was going on? I don't think the story from the confession is what went on though.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;49545988]I'm not sure what to make of Brendan. It sounds like he's just going along with what the police want him to say a lot of the time. But he's the one who requested to talk to the police in the first place. Why did he do that if he had zero knowledge of what was going on? I don't think the story from the confession is what went on though.[/QUOTE] When did he request to talk to the police? IIRC Brendan was questioned by the police once, and nothing came out of it. The police then decided to question him again when his cousin told the police that Brendan might know something about Halbach's murder, and that's the worthless interrogation that was presented at his trial. And later, during the trial, the cousin said she made that up, so... [editline]17th January 2016[/editline] if Steven did murder Halbach, then I doubt Brendan had anything to do with it

Do people honestly think Avery's story is true? I mean seriously, a huge conspiracy of planted blood and framing a murder on a man like Avery? Why? Who cares enough to ruin a man's life like that? I don't think Brendan was involved, he just seems like a mentally challenged kid who got taken advantage of, but Avery is definitely not innocent. Maybe a not guilty verdict, if you're going by what was shown in the series, but by no means innocent.

[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;49546095]When did he request to talk to the police? IIRC Brendan was questioned by the police once, and nothing came out of it. The police then decided to question him again when his cousin told the police that Brendan might know something about Halbach's murder, and that's the worthless interrogation that was presented at his trial. And later, during the trial, the cousin said she made that up, so... [editline]17th January 2016[/editline] if Steven did murder Halbach, then I doubt Brendan had anything to do with it[/QUOTE] I thought Brendan requested the interview after the first one? Either way I agree that I don't think he was involved. And even if he was involved, I don't see how he could get life in his situation. Not much doubt in my mind Steven killed her somehow though.

[QUOTE=WTF Nuke;49548821]Do people honestly think Avery's story is true? I mean seriously, a huge conspiracy of planted blood and framing a murder on a man like Avery? Why? Who cares enough to ruin a man's life like that? I don't think Brendan was involved, he just seems like a mentally challenged kid who got taken advantage of, but Avery is definitely not innocent. Maybe a not guilty verdict, if you're going by what was shown in the series, but by no means innocent.[/QUOTE] You have it completely wrong. It's precisely because of the kind of man that Avery is that it's more believable. If I recall correctly Len Kachinsky (Brendans defense lawyer) wrote an email to somebody else in which he pretty much states "The avery family is a disgusting blight on the earth and their gene pool needs to be eradicated". This kind of sentiment of hatred against the avery family seems to reverberate throughout the entire legal system in that area. Emotional incentive: Check You have a large financial motive to get rid of the averies due to that incoming lawsuit. Financial incentive: Check Then you also have the integrity of the court being questioned due to avery being considered innocent for his previous crime. Status/reputational incentive: Check Then we also have all the insane shit going on in the courts and the blood vial which had blood extracted from it. You don't even have to assume its a massive police conspiracy. It's quite plausible that somebody simply wanted to kill Theresa Halbech and thought that framing Steven Avery would be the easiest way to get away with it. Followed by the police acting on their hatred of Avery and deciding that they need to get Avery as he is "obviously" the only one that could have done it by any means necessary. The way they investigated the crime reminds me a lot of this piece of news by the most trustworthy source on the planet: [video=youtube;u1cgHEWG-BA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1cgHEWG-BA[/video]

[QUOTE=WTF Nuke;49548821]Do people honestly think Avery's story is true? I mean seriously, a huge conspiracy of planted blood and framing a murder on a man like Avery? Why? Who cares enough to ruin a man's life like that?[/QUOTE] uh, the police? the state? his lawsuit, if won, would completely bankrupt the state. it would ruin them. if thats not sufficient evidence to frame somebody and get his lawsuit dropped then i dont know what is.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;49548839]I thought Brendan requested the interview after the first one? Either way I agree that I don't think he was involved. And even if he was involved, I don't see how he could get life in his situation. Not much doubt in my mind Steven killed her somehow though.[/QUOTE] AFAIK Brendan never requested to be interviewed [QUOTE=WTF Nuke;49548821]Do people honestly think Avery's story is true? I mean seriously, a huge conspiracy of planted blood and framing a murder on a man like Avery? Why? Who cares enough to ruin a man's life like that? I don't think Brendan was involved, he just seems like a mentally challenged kid who got taken advantage of, but Avery is definitely not innocent. Maybe a not guilty verdict, if you're going by what was shown in the series, but by no means innocent.[/QUOTE] Even after Avery's innocence was proven in the rape case he was in jail for for 18 years previously, the Manitowoc cops STILL believed he had done it The actual murderer probably put the shit like Halbach's vehicle on Avery's property. The (Manitowoc) cops were then already convinced Steven had done it, they hated Steven already, thus they 'helped' to make sure Steven would get convicted by planting evidence. It isn't just 'lol someone comitted a murder let's blame this random guy for it', the cops already convinced themselves that Avery had done it. [editline]17th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Rusty100;49549729]uh, the police? the state? his lawsuit, if won, would completely bankrupt the state. it would ruin them. if thats not sufficient evidence to frame somebody and get his lawsuit dropped then i dont know what is.[/QUOTE] and yeah, that too

I think the most convincing evidence is that, because of events prior, Steven seemed to have an obsession with Teresa Halbach. The documentary pretty much leaves all that out so that you think that they hardly know each other at all until she comes out to the property. But in reality, he was practically harassing her beforehand and she was legitimately afraid to go to his house. I guess it's still possible that someone else killed her and that's all coincidental, but it gets rid of the idea that he lacked a motive. That's probably why they left that stuff out. Because one of the big things it pushes is "We why would he do it???"

[QUOTE=WTF Nuke;49548821]Do people honestly think Avery's story is true? I mean seriously, a huge conspiracy of planted blood and framing a murder on a man like Avery? Why? Who cares enough to ruin a man's life like that? I don't think Brendan was involved, he just seems like a mentally challenged kid who got taken advantage of, but Avery is definitely not innocent. Maybe a not guilty verdict, if you're going by what was shown in the series, but by no means innocent.[/QUOTE] Does a massive, massive, fucking law suit against the people who wrongfully imprisoned you for 18 years just go "WOOOOOOSH" right past the top of your head? [editline]17th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Meller Yeller;49550632]I think the most convincing evidence is that, because of events prior, Steven seemed to have an obsession with Teresa Halbach. The documentary pretty much leaves all that out so that you think that they hardly know each other at all until she comes out to the property. But in reality, he was practically harassing her beforehand and she was legitimately afraid to go to his house. I guess it's still possible that someone else killed her and that's all coincidental, but it gets rid of the idea that he lacked a motive. That's probably why they left that stuff out. Because one of the big things it pushes is "We why would he do it???"[/QUOTE] Can you show the motive and evidence that shows he was actually 1) harrassing her before hand 2) she was actually scared to go there I don't tend to trust TV shows all that much but you're going to have to show some evidence there

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49553899]Can you show the motive and evidence that shows he was actually 1) harrassing her before hand 2) she was actually scared to go there I don't tend to trust TV shows all that much but you're going to have to show some evidence there[/QUOTE] "Kratz pointed out that Avery used a fake name in his call to AutoTrader magazine to trick Halbach into coming to his home, and that there were three calls from Avery that were placed to Halbach's cell phone on October 31. He also pointed out that various pieces of evidence were found near the trailer owned by Avery, including Halbach's phone, camera and PDA. In addition to the electronics, bones “intertwined” with steel belts, a tooth belonging to Halbach, and a rivet from Halbach’s jeans were all found in the firepit on Avery’s property. In addition to the items and DNA belonging to Halbach, Avery’s DNA was found on the victim’s hood latch, and a ballistics report indicated that the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery’s rifle. Kratz also disclosed that, while in prison, Avery told another inmate of his intent to build a "torture chamber" so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released." [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_a_Murderer#Response_by_prosecution]Wikipedia Article[/url] [url=http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-steven-avery-9-reasons-guilty/]Source of allegations regarding unrepresented evidence[/url] Take it as you will, I will not pick sides and say one side is evil and the other side is made up of do-no-wrong angels. I personally choose to believe that Steven likely did it, and the police hated him so much that they illegally tampered with the scene in order to maximize the chances of him being convicted. Brendan was a casualty of the PD's ruthless quest to take Avery (whether he's innocent or not, I cannot truly say for sure) down. The documentary while very compelling was remiss to not include the substantial evidence that Kratz mentions.

[QUOTE=New Cidem;49555339]"Kratz pointed out that Avery used a fake name in his call to AutoTrader magazine to trick Halbach into coming to his home, and that there were three calls from Avery that were placed to Halbach's cell phone on October 31. He also pointed out that various pieces of evidence were found near the trailer owned by Avery, including Halbach's phone, camera and PDA. In addition to the electronics, bones “intertwined” with steel belts, a tooth belonging to Halbach, and a rivet from Halbach’s jeans were all found in the firepit on Avery’s property. In addition to the items and DNA belonging to Halbach, Avery’s DNA was found on the victim’s hood latch, and a ballistics report indicated that the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery’s rifle. Kratz also disclosed that, while in prison, Avery told another inmate of his intent to build a "torture chamber" so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released." [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_a_Murderer#Response_by_prosecution]Wikipedia Article[/url] [url=http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-steven-avery-9-reasons-guilty/]Source of allegations regarding unrepresented evidence[/url] Take it as you will, I will not pick sides and say one side is evil and the other side is made up of do-no-wrong angels. I personally choose to believe that Steven likely did it, and the police hated him so much that they illegally tampered with the scene in order to maximize the chances of him being convicted. Brendan was a casualty of the PD's ruthless quest to take Avery (whether he's innocent or not, I cannot truly say for sure) down. The documentary while very compelling was remiss to not include the substantial evidence that Kratz mentions.[/QUOTE] yeah but according to this article I linked previously [url]http://www.avclub.com/article/read-pro-steven-avery-list-what-was-left-out-makin-230634[/url] a gun expert with the Wisconsin state crime lab couldn't actually conclusively link the bullet to Avery's gun, though it was the same caliber as Avery's gun. and also an investigator admitted to not changing gloves after handling blood evidence inside the car, and could've put Avery's DNA evidence on the hood accidentally, as the amount of DNA that was present on the hood was very small

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;49550632]I think the most convincing evidence is that, because of events prior, Steven seemed to have an obsession with Teresa Halbach. The documentary pretty much leaves all that out so that you think that they hardly know each other at all until she comes out to the property. But in reality, he was practically harassing her beforehand and she was legitimately afraid to go to his house. I guess it's still possible that someone else killed her and that's all coincidental, but it gets rid of the idea that he lacked a motive. That's probably why they left that stuff out. Because one of the big things it pushes is "We why would he do it???"[/QUOTE] Nothing about the timeline or circumstances surrounding Halbach's murder adds up, though. Granted, I haven't finished the entire documentary yet, so I may be missing some crucial piece of information that hasn't come to light, but the narrative presented by the prosecution is not backed up by any physical evidence whatsoever, their interview techniques are highly unprofessional and leading, every key piece of evidence is shown to have been mishandled or tampered with, the defense attorney for Brendan was outright working [I]against[/I] his client... This is one of the most bizarre and disgusting abortions of justice I've ever seen. At this point, even if Steven Avery [I]did[/I] kill Theresa Halbach, it is clear beyond a reasonable doubt that he is [I]not[/I] getting a "fair trial" in any sense of the word, and that the Manitowoc County sheriff's department has, at the very least, influenced the evidence against Steven Avery, if not outright planted evidence in an attempt to secure a conviction. The most recent and shocking revelation was that one of the officers directly deposed in the lawsuit called in Theresa Halbach's vehicle two days before it was found, reading off the plate number. Upon hearing it belonged to the missing woman, Theresa Halbach, he confirmed the make and model, and then radio silence. Forensic evidence placed her blood and hair in the back of that vehicle, meaning her body was most likely in the back of that vehicle. Her body being placed back into that vehicle does not fit anywhere in the timeline or narrative of how Steven supposedly killed her or disposed of her.

I still haven't finished the whole thing but so far I'm on the edge. On one hand Steven gives off a weird vibe and I think he could have done it, on the other hand her ex boyfriend looks suspicious and even before reading anything about him, as I watched him talk in the stand I was almost yelling at the screen about his mannerisms. Who the fuck smirks when talking in court about your dead ex? And the weird look he gave her brother when asked about the search party? They know something. The police department is beyond fishy, they obviously wanted to convict him whatever it took. Probably got a tunnel vision and missed the real killer. Only thing is that by planting evidence they messed up their own story. In the end I'm leaning that someone else (maybe her ex) killed her and framed Steven. And that the police didn't specifically go after him, but found it very convenient, then helped the process along.

The local news did an interview with the county sheriff, basically he wakes up to and has to listen to a full inbox of angry voice mail every day:v: I think for sure hes a person of questionable character, but the amount of bullshit that happened in this trial would be enough to get the case thrown out in most courts.

[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;49557199]yeah but according to this article I linked previously [url]http://www.avclub.com/article/read-pro-steven-avery-list-what-was-left-out-makin-230634[/url] a gun expert with the Wisconsin state crime lab couldn't actually conclusively link the bullet to Avery's gun, though it was the same caliber as Avery's gun. and also an investigator admitted to not changing gloves after handling blood evidence inside the car, and could've put Avery's DNA evidence on the hood accidentally, as the amount of DNA that was present on the hood was very small[/QUOTE] Jesus Christ fuck this case dude, what a massive shitshow

This happened just miles from where I live. Don't believe the documentary I recommend digging into the true way it played out. The film wants to sway you and ..... it has with so many ppl.