Men won't volunteer to help the Scouts for one depressing reason: they'll be labelled paedophiles - Sensationalist Headlines

[quote]The first barrier is red tape, in the form of an exhaustive, compulsory background check, overseen by the Disclosure and Barring Service. This was supposed to be less bureaucratic than the Criminal Records Bureau it replaced in 2012, as it only targets “sensitive” posts with intensive contact with young people. Scouts volunteers are on that list, and with some justification. In 2015, lawyer Oliver Jeffcott claimed that his firm received calls relating to over 150 historical cases of child abuse, after BBC News covered the story of one of their clients. At the time, the Scouts' figures suggested that 48 abuse claims had been made against the organisation since its formation in 1907. The second barrier is a more general red flag: the very real fear among many men who want to work with children that they will be branded a potential paedophile.[/quote] [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/men-wont-volunteer-to-help-the-scouts-for-one-depressing-reason/"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/men-wont-volunteer-to-help-the-scouts-for-one-depressing-reason/[/URL]

[quote] Since 2007, it has been compulsory for girls to be admitted to the UK Scouts ([b]no reciprocal agreements allow boys into the Brownies or Girl Guides[/b]). [/quote] Ah, wonderful equality.

Men who want to look after kids that aren't their own are largely considered to be dangerous which is just hilarious sexism but you really can't broach that topic on a mainstream level

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52165529]Men who want to look after kids that aren't their own are largely considered to be dangerous which is just hilarious sexism but you really can't broach that topic on a mainstream level[/QUOTE] Ironically this attitude harms children too because people tend to focus entirely on men as child abusers, spending no time wondering if perhaps the women involved with their children might also be abusing them.

It's a shame, most of the dads in my scout group when I was a kid were really cool people, if a little weird in some ways (but scouting is filled, FILLED with weird kids like I was, so I guess it makes sense :v: ). The Church my family used to go to ran into the same thing, where a lot of the boy kids at the youth group felt really strange being led around by exclusively women, with no dads taking a real role. It's seen as weird for men to volunteer to work with children, for some reason, so you get labelled "weird" at the very least. Hell, I got a ton of weird looks in the elementary school I volunteered at for a class in High School when I was working with a couple of girls and boys on math stuff. Actually made me really self-conscious about the job I was doing and etc. til the teacher showed me and the other guy I was assigned with that the kids grades were actually improving pretty well. It's probably one of the few areas where I feel like the whole ~~mens rights~~ type people have a legitimate point.

I'm a bachelor in my 30s, and you're damn right I wouldn't think of volunteering for Scouts, Big Brothers, or any other community program that'd put me in close and potentially isolated contact with teens/kids. All it takes is one false accusation and my life's ruined. If I'm lucky I wouldn't get a criminal record and I'd be able to move to another community and hope my ruined reputation didn't catch up with me while I started my life over. I'd love to be a positive role model for someone, but it's not worth the risk with the acceptability of pedophile witchhunting. One helicopter parent just has to get an idea in their paranoid head, or even worse want to control their kid's upbringing and don't appreciate contrary messages coming from a male role model, and an accusation is as good as a conviction when it comes to touching kids. It's a taboo greater than serial murder, these days. It's also why I wrote off any interest in becoming a teacher, in high school. I saw the writing on the wall, and I'm far from the only one. Meanwhile, the news regularly has stories of female teachers fucking middle/high school students. Hey, guys, do you think we've been sexist and attacking the wrong thing in the name of protecting children?

Ive done a lot of work trying to cobat this image, as a young often bearded man ivd run neighborhood community service groups with young children and middle schoolers and its always been a decent challenge with certain groups of parents who are understandably worried at first. Once they learn about who i am and the program though, it usually helps change peoples minds thankfully. Not everuone though, and ive had the police called on me before which is pretty interesting, and is firsthand experience with sexist attitudes towards men and is a little disheartening. [editline]29th April 2017[/editline] I think our collective masculinity would healthier if more men learned to take on nurturing roles.

[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;52165650]Ive done a lot of work trying to cobat this image, as a young often bearded man ivd run neighborhood community service groups with young children and middle schoolers and its always been a decent challenge with certain groups of parents who are understandably worried at first. Once they learn about who i am and the program though, it usually helps change peoples minds thankfully. Not everuone though, and ive had the police called on me before which is pretty interesting, and is firsthand experience with sexist attitudes towards men and is a little disheartening. [editline]29th April 2017[/editline] I think our collective masculinity would healthier if more men learned to take on nurturing roles.[/QUOTE] It's a catch 22 I don't wanna take on a nurturing role if the risk is that I'm going to be seen in a negative light for that The negative light on that won't go away until more people take the risk of being nurturing role models

Our scout group has had the rule for years that you always, ALWAYS. Have to be with a minimum of 2 adult if you are in a room with a kid. This way you always have a second opinion if a kid claims he was molested. Thankfully, we have not needed this rule yet.

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52165966]I feel like even that's overkill because statistically it's family who are most likely to abuse/harm their own children. The whole stranger danger hysteria has projected the actual risk children face onto random passers by and off the actual prime perpetrators of abuse.[/QUOTE] You can thank feminists and social conservatives forging an alliance against the (hoax) Satanic daycare abuse panic in the 80s for that. The worst part about the panic was, so many people made up bullshit and spread the hysteria, and it was then discredited as a hoax. However, this discrediting [I]also silenced real victims of legitimate abuse[/I] because they were seen as copycat hoaxers crying for a piece of the attention.

You mean demonizing men and treating the bulk of them as potential pedophiles leads to a lack of men in jobs with children? Can't imagine why!

I can remember being in the library once with a few friends, and we were working on a project together in one of the private rooms. Some guy walked in because he needed one of the books inside, and one of our parents freaked out. She walked in, half-confronted him, and wouldn't step out until he left. I don't recall him even saying a word to us. With occurrences like that, it's no wonder why men are worried about false accusations.

Would love this to be really looked at. I've a potential career being a Physics teacher but going into a field that is already prejudiced against men where so much as an accusation could permanently ruin my career and social status is something that somehow doesn't appeal to me. There's a significant lack of male teachers in Scotland, and there's a real reason for it. Hopefully with the rise of feminism and equality it will be something that will be brought to more people's attention

The Hunt with Mads Mikkelsen comes to mind with this dilemma.

Back when I worked with kids, especially the disabled, this was basically drilled into my head. "Since you're a guy be careful as fuck because one word from someone can ruin you"

[QUOTE=taipan;52165916]Our scout group has had the rule for years that you always, ALWAYS. Have to be with a minimum of 2 adult if you are in a room with a kid. This way you always have a second opinion if a kid claims he was molested. Thankfully, we have not needed this rule yet.[/QUOTE] In the US this is a policy actually recommended by the Boy Scouts organization as a whole, albeit more that you're supposed to maintain at least line-of-sight with another adult while having a one-on-one talk with a kid, don't necessarily have to be in the same room. They also argue it more as being for the child's protection too, but it really works both ways.

[QUOTE=Instant Mix;52166083] Teacher stuff[/QUOTE] We won't have enough teachers, male or otherwise in the coming years, already have problems as it is. Don't get me wrong i'm sure this has something to do with but I honestly think kids and teenagers being horrible bastards plays just as big a role in it. By which i mean, standard comprehensive schooling. I was not a cunt in school to my teachers but I knew plenty of my peers who were, throwing shit at them (i wish i was joking but, yes litteral shit that i witnessed being thrown), locking them in rooms, hell they even made a few of them quit and leave the building in tears because of all the hurtfull shit they shouted at them and wrote on the white boards, and I for one would not like to experience that bullshit again especially as a teacher. I'm pretty sure things would have gotten worse in the last 10 or so years as well, not better.

Having worked in a kindergarten and as a teacher, I know exactly how it feels. Fuck that crap, not going back to it.

[QUOTE=Fr3ddi3;52166443]We won't have enough teachers, male or otherwise in the coming years, already have problems as it is. Don't get me wrong i'm sure this has something to do with but I honestly think kids and teenagers being horrible bastards plays just as big a role in it. By which i mean, standard comprehensive schooling. I was not a cunt in school to my teachers but I knew plenty of my peers who were, throwing shit at them (i wish i was joking but, yes litteral shit that i witnessed being thrown), locking them in rooms, hell they even made a few of them quit and leave the building in tears because of all the hurtfull shit they shouted at them and wrote on the white boards, and I for one would not like to experience that bullshit again especially as a teacher. I'm pretty sure things would have gotten worse in the last 10 or so years as well, not better.[/QUOTE] No the reason we don't have a lot of teachers now adays is because they treated like shit by EVERYONE. A surprising amount of people actually believe the "teaching" isn't an actual job and if you do it you're just being supported by the government and not being actually useful to society. Many of my teachers have encountered these types over the years where as soon as they reveal that they are teachers they are downtrodden and seen as lowly. My physic teacher even made a joke about it at one point the he now tells people he's a life coach because of how negative the viewpoint can be on teaching.

Considering the actual statistics involved, no. No sympathy. If I had kids I sure as fuck would not trust a random dickhead with them.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52167206]No the reason we don't have a lot of teachers now adays is because they treated like shit by EVERYONE. A surprising amount of people actually believe the "teaching" isn't an actual job and if you do it you're just being supported by the government and not being actually useful to society. Many of my teachers have encountered these types over the years where as soon as they reveal that they are teachers they are downtrodden and seen as lowly. My physic teacher even made a joke about it at one point the he now tells people he's a life coach because of how negative the viewpoint can be on teaching.[/QUOTE] How ignorant does a person have to be to think that? Teachers are indispensable to modern society. Period. That's like treating farmers like shit for being farmers.

[QUOTE=SAULSBASHWALL;52167239]Considering the actual statistics involved, no. No sympathy. If I had kids I sure as fuck would not trust a random dickhead with them.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=OP]Scouts volunteers are on that list, and with some justification. In 2015, lawyer Oliver Jeffcott claimed that his firm received calls relating to over 150 historical cases of child abuse, after BBC News covered the story of one of their clients. At the time, the Scouts' figures suggested that 48 abuse claims had been made against the organisation since its formation in 1907.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Every year we help over 450,000 young people in the UK enjoy new adventures; to experience the outdoors; interact with others, gain confidence and have the opportunity to reach their full potential.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://scouts.org.uk/home/"]Source: scouts.org.uk[/URL] 110 years of scouting, "over" 150 cases of child abuse and we'll bump it up 10x to 1500 just to be safe, and [I]uncountable millions[/I] of scouts that were not abused. I'm not sure you understand the actual statistics involved. Unless you'd like to present some different numbers.

Not to mention that a lot of those cases probably lead to the same person.

Working with children as a man in general is something that you've gotta be really fucking careful with. Watch Jagten, it shows this shit really well and makes me never want to work with kids edit: which was already mentioned in this thread

I'm studying to be a high school teacher and this thread is making me a wee bit apprehensive.

[QUOTE=SAULSBASHWALL;52167239]Considering the actual statistics involved, no. No sympathy. If I had kids I sure as fuck would not trust a random dickhead with them.[/QUOTE] What statistics?

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52168006]What statistics?[/QUOTE] This. I'm sure if you combined it with the statistics of female abusers and most likely the huge amount of unreported female abusers because of the toxic masculine ideology of "it's a hot woman its cool why would you report it?", you wouldn't see much of a difference. I honestly don't think there is any significant difference between the frequency of female and male abusers, there are just some serious underlying social issues and viewpoints that are negatively biased towards men. And unfortunately, it's something that unless there are more men in these positions, it won't go away easy. It's a real shame. Just to clarify, I'm not saying the level of severity of abuse is biased towards men; any level of abuse is absolutely abysmal and deplorable. I am meaning the common view of the frequency or chance of abuse occurring is negatively biased towards men. [editline]30th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=geel9;52165528]Ah, wonderful equality.[/QUOTE] Literally, a thread that is actually talking about really serious gender inequality issues and that's what you pick up on? Fucking hell man.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52168006]What statistics?[/QUOTE] Published by the institute in the crevice of one's anus.

has anyone got any studies that show hard evidence of anti-male prejudice specifically rooted in fear of paedophilia? all these studies seem to cite the low proportion of male primary school teachers etc. which is fair enough but that only really tells you that men don't do those jobs. it's like citing low proportions of female engineers as evidence of sexism in the tech industry

[QUOTE=SAULSBASHWALL;52167239]Considering the actual statistics involved, no. No sympathy. If I had kids I sure as fuck would not trust a random dickhead with them.[/QUOTE] Considering the actual statistics involved you should just not let 90% of the planet have kids because you can't trust random dickheads to make them. The fear that if you take your eyes off your kid for one second in public a white van is going to snatch them is ridiculous.