Oxford plans to ban petrol and diesel cars, vans, and buses from 2020 - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]Cars, vans and buses will be banned from 2020, with trucks following in 2035; zero emission zone will also expand over the years Oxford will ban petrol and diesel cars from its city centre from 2020 onwards in the latest round of air quality plans. ... The ban will reduce nitrogen dioxide levels in the city’s worst pollution blackspot, George Street, by 74%, returning it to natural levels of pollution. The idea hasn’t yet been given the green light and will face a six-week public consultation. Traditionally, though, Oxford is an environmentally aware city, so the proposal is expected to face less opposition than the capital’s upcoming T-Charge.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/oxford-plans-ban-petrol-and-diesel-cars-2020[/url]

That is fucking dumb, no way are people gonna be switched over to electric before 2020, and their public transport won't be able to handle the massive influx of passengers.

And electric vehicles are more damaging to the environment until they hit 150000+ kilometres :v:

[QUOTE=Thomo;52812862]I only think I saw one electric bus on my visits to Oxford. Also the Oxford City and general area has the most terrible bus route system ever, especially if you want to go to a village.[/QUOTE] Local bus operators are apparently in full support of it (unsurprisingly) so they must be okay with spending the money on electric busses.

[QUOTE=Dave_Parker;52812906]What the fuck does that mean? If it's natural levels, can you even call it pollution?[/QUOTE] Not all natural things are good. Of course there are natural levels of pollution. Think about the natural oil seeps, Forest fires, and volcanoes for example. It's just that typically, humans make way more pollution than the world does.

2020? Are they fucking retarded?

Expecting people to move to electrics by 2020 is super optimistic. 2025 [i]maybe[/i] but 2020 is just [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/rainbow.png[/img]

2030 seems like the ultimate number to do it but right now is just stupid. in 2030 there will most likely be used electric cars for a good price.

2020 certainly is pushing the envelope a bit for an outright ban. If it just starts off as a small area though it's probably just going to be a minor annoyance to a few people.

[QUOTE=MrBunneh;52812864]And electric vehicles are more damaging to the environment until they hit 150000+ kilometres :v:[/QUOTE] Why are people rating me dumb??? Lithium doesn't grow on trees nor is it economically friendly to mine.

Oxford sounds like some sort of an off-shoot of very-far left spaces in America.

I mean it is important to note that this is only applying to the city center. In certain European cities cars, flat out, are banned from city centers iirc.

[QUOTE=MrBunneh;52813213]Why are people rating me dumb??? Lithium doesn't grow on trees nor is it economically friendly to mine.[/QUOTE] It's almost entirely recyclable, a very small part of the battery, and lithium mining isn't really any worse than anything else. They just pump ground water into ponds and let it evaporate.

No idea why anyone would drive [I]at all[/I] here, roads are shite, parking is nonexistent, and traffic goes all over the place for no fucking reason at all.

Can be done if they subsidize the switch, gonna be pretty fucking expensive though.

Oxford's city centre is basically car-free anyway though. The shitty little streets and almost complete lack of parking means that most people don't even bother. Most of the tourist rely on the park and ride, and the bus routes are just good enough to support the people that actually live there

[QUOTE=Morgen;52813355]It's almost entirely recyclable, a very small part of the battery, and lithium mining isn't really any worse than anything else. They just pump ground water into ponds and let it evaporate.[/QUOTE] Doesn't change the fact that lithium is rare af or the fact China (also bolivia) is responsible for the vast majority of lithium production. Not exactly the country with the best economic considerations! Additionally electric cars will always be at a deficit in terms of actual useability and range over ices so long as we use lithium batteries. And let's not forget crash safety!

[QUOTE=OvB;52812920]Not all natural things are good. Of course there are natural levels of pollution. Think about the natural oil seeps, Forest fires, and volcanoes for example. It's just that typically, humans make way more pollution than the world does.[/QUOTE] Forest fires can be good, idk about other countries but they're necessary in Australian forests for regeneration and germination [editline]24th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=MrBunneh;52813679]Doesn't change the fact that lithium is rare af or the fact China (also bolivia) is responsible for the vast majority of lithium production. Not exactly the country with the best economic considerations! Additionally electric cars will always be at a deficit in terms of actual useability and range over ices so long as we use lithium batteries. And let's not forget crash safety![/QUOTE] China has recently been trying do do quite alot to become more environmentally friendly

[QUOTE=Araknid;52813864]Forest fires can be good, idk about other countries but they're necessary in Australian forests for regeneration and germination[/QUOTE] Forest fires are fairly important here in Canada too, for the same reasons. I think they have to be watched very closely though because they can get out of control somewhat easily in some places.

[QUOTE=Araknid;52813864] [editline]24th October 2017[/editline] China has recently been trying do do quite alot to become more environmentally friendly[/QUOTE] And so has every ICE manufacturer since the 70s fuel crisis :v: Don't get me wrong I want and totally support electric/other sustainable methods like steam to power vehicles, but the technology isn't advanced enough yet. And I do keep my eye on them seeing as I am an auto mechanic.

I'm in favour of EV switchovers but 2020 sounds like a short amount of time Realistically, you're giving people 2 years to scrape enough money to afford an EV or do an EV conversion, at the very least make it 2025

oxford is crap to drive through so nothing of value is lost.

[QUOTE=MrBunneh;52813679]Doesn't change the fact that lithium is rare af or the fact China (also bolivia) is responsible for the vast majority of lithium production. Not exactly the country with the best economic considerations! Additionally electric cars will always be at a deficit in terms of actual useability and range over ices so long as we use lithium batteries. And let's not forget crash safety![/QUOTE] What? You are severely misinformed. No surprise there though with the campaign from the Koch brothers. Australia is the world leader in lithium production, Bolivia produces very little lithium (only 20 tons). China is third for production. Crash safety is also better for EVs. You can put the battery along the bottom of the car, leaving the whole front as a crumple zone. Not to mention making it extremely difficult to flip. In terms of fire it's probably just as bad for both cars. But EVs are slow burning, it still takes a lot to get an EV to set on fire. Nissan Leafs are the most popular EV and only have ever had one fire What you have been told is wrong.

[QUOTE=Araknid;52813864]Forest fires can be good, idk about other countries but they're necessary in Australian forests for regeneration and germination [/QUOTE] Of course they are for certain trees, but that doesn't mean they are not a source of natural pollution. [editline]23rd October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=MrBunneh;52813679]And let's not forget crash safety![/QUOTE] I agree we should stop using ICE vehicles as soon as possible.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52813355]It's almost entirely recyclable, a very small part of the battery, and lithium mining isn't really any worse than anything else. They just pump ground water into ponds and let it evaporate.[/QUOTE] I hope you realize that most of the environmental fuckery from the production of EVs comes from refining and shaping the various materials. Same for recycling and rebuilding, it turns out smelting, re-refining and rebuilding a big block made mostly of heavy metals is definitely not a zero-emissions process. That's not to say building a Tesla harms the environment more than riding around on a Coal Roller 3000™, but you're kinda making it sound like the whole thing is made of sunshine and rainbows. [editline]24th October 2017[/editline] And I almost forgot trans-oceanic delivery. Jesus christ the emissions of diesel cargo ships make ICE cars' exhausts look like unicorn giggles in comparison. Banning all petrol cars ain't gonna do shit for the environment until you do something about the fat sea bastards.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;52814651]I hope you realize that most of the environmental fuckery from the production of EVs comes from refining and shaping the various materials. Same for recycling and rebuilding, it turns out smelting, re-refining and rebuilding a big block made mostly of heavy metals is definitely not a zero-emissions process. That's not to say building a Tesla harms the environment more than riding around on a Coal Roller 3000™, but you're kinda making it sound like the whole thing is made of sunshine and rainbows. [editline]24th October 2017[/editline] And I almost forgot trans-oceanic delivery. Jesus christ the emissions of diesel cargo ships make ICE cars' exhausts look like unicorn giggles in comparison. Banning all petrol cars ain't gonna do shit for the environment until you do something about the fat sea bastards.[/QUOTE] Why wait for one of the oldest industries to catch up? They've vastly increased efficient in ships as well, and new technologies are on the horizon. Besides, ocean transportation is unmatched in how much volume it can carry. When you break it down, ocean shipping can transport 1 ton of goods 1 kilometer cleaner than any other mode of transport. [url]http://www.worldshipping.org/industry-issues/environment/air-emissions/carbon-emissions[/url] Shipping is getting more efficient each year. [editline]23rd October 2017[/editline] But yeah, lets make zero emission ships, i'm entirely on board with that. Give me a billion dollars and a meeting with Musk and i'll have the industry on it's way within 7 years.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;52814651]I hope you realize that most of the environmental fuckery from the production of EVs comes from refining and shaping the various materials. Same for recycling and rebuilding, it turns out smelting, re-refining and rebuilding a big block made mostly of heavy metals is definitely not a zero-emissions process. That's not to say building a Tesla harms the environment more than riding around on a Coal Roller 3000™, but you're kinda making it sound like the whole thing is made of sunshine and rainbows. [editline]24th October 2017[/editline] And I almost forgot trans-oceanic delivery. Jesus christ the emissions of diesel cargo ships make ICE cars' exhausts look like unicorn giggles in comparison. Banning all petrol cars ain't gonna do shit for the environment until you do something about the fat sea bastards.[/QUOTE] Yeah the battery production does have an impact on the environment. But it's not as bad as you make it out to be. [QUOTE]The Automotive Science Group (ASG) has conducted the following: “Looking to advanced automotive technologies, ASG’s 2014 study found the Nissan Leaf to hold the smallest life-cycle environmental footprint of any model year 2014 automobile available in the North American market (with minimum four person occupancy). This U.S. assembled, battery electric vehicle with an estimated 84 mile driving range is the best selling all-electric car in the world for good reason, and now consumers can be confident that the increased environmental impacts of manufacturing the battery electric technology is more than offset with increased environmental performance during operational life.”[/QUOTE] [url]https://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-has-smallest-lifecycle-footprint-of-any-2014-automobile-sold-today-in-north-america/[/url]

[QUOTE=Morgen;52814625]What? You are severely misinformed. No surprise there though with the campaign from the Koch brothers. Australia is the world leader in lithium production, Bolivia produces very little lithium (only 20 tons). China is third for production. Crash safety is also better for EVs. You can put the battery along the bottom of the car, leaving the whole front as a crumple zone. Not to mention making it extremely difficult to flip. In terms of fire it's probably just as bad for both cars. But EVs are slow burning, it still takes a lot to get an EV to set on fire. Nissan Leafs are the most popular EV and only have ever had one fire What you have been told is wrong.[/QUOTE] sorry lol, I was just basing my statements off of a leading mechanics subscription magazine based in Australia, with a large focus on preparing mechanics for the electrical future, written entirely by experienced professionals with decades under their belt :v:

[QUOTE=MrBunneh;52814757]sorry lol, I was just basing my statements off of a leading mechanics subscription magazine based in Australia, with a large focus on preparing mechanics for the electrical future, written entirely by experienced professionals with decades under their belt :v:[/QUOTE] So... Stuff written by someone with a heavy bias, basically?

[QUOTE=MrBunneh;52814757]sorry lol, I was just basing my statements off of a leading mechanics subscription magazine based in Australia, with a large focus on preparing mechanics for the electrical future, written entirely by experienced professionals with decades under their belt :v:[/QUOTE] Well now you know it's full of shit.