Zombie question!? - General

Lets say you get bit by a zombie, and as you know, you are now infected and will eventually turn into a zombie aswell. Sometimes in movies and games they cut off the bitten limb within minutes or seconds, and prevent the infection from spreading therefor don't get infected. Lets say you got bit and the bite just took some flesh, and the infected spit or whatever did NOT go into any major blood vein. How long would it take before the infected bacteria would spread throughout the body and amputation would be too late? (I tried googling kinda the same thing with snake poison and stuff, no result :(

Seems to be instantaneous if it hits aorta or vena cavae, but capillaries have very slow blood flow. I found this, look at velocity: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_flow[/url]

[QUOTE=Solodris;49783317]Seems to be instantaneous if it hits aorta or vena cavae, but capillaries have very slow blood flow. I found this, look at velocity: [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_flow[/URL][/QUOTE] Thanks! That's what I was looking for. Unfortunately I couldn't find the speed of the bigger veins in your arms, the basilic and cephalic veins. If you get bitten in those, I don't think you can amputate fast enough for it not to spread though. Who knows :P

Depends on the zombie-type. 28 Laters zombies work by virus, and you turn almost immediately (which perhaps doesn't make sense either), but you won't last as long seeing as you don't really care about eating or drinking water anymore, just a raging lunatic, who never cools down. But you seem to be talking about The Walking Dead zombies, or they at least fit the description. It's not known what causes it (at least in the TV so far) however you must DIE to something/anything before you can become zombie, so you don't just turn. And in TWD, they have "proven" amputation to work. But I guess you would have to tie up the bitten arm immediately, to stop the blood flowing, which they don't do before the amputation itself though.

[QUOTE=Ehmmett;49783483]Fiction[/QUOTE] Ok [QUOTE=Bat-shit;49783482]Depends on the zombie-type. 28 Laters zombies work by virus, and you turn almost immediately (which perhaps doesn't make sense either), but you won't last as long seeing as you don't really care about eating or drinking water anymore, just a raging lunatic, who never cools down. But you seem to be talking about The Walking Dead zombies, or they at least fit the description. It's not known what causes it (at least in the TV so far) however you must DIE to something/anything before you can become zombie, so you don't just turn. And in TWD, they have "proven" amputation to work. But I guess you would have to tie up the bitten arm immediately, to stop the blood flowing, which they don't do before the amputation itself though.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the input, I was thinking more realistically, how long you would have to amputate if you take the speed of the blood traveling in the veins where you got bit, because once it pass the heart, you would be doomed.

[QUOTE=Slipperss;49783506]Thanks for the input, I was thinking more realistically, how long you would have to amputate if you take the speed of the blood traveling in the veins where you got bit, because once it pass the heart, you would be doomed.[/QUOTE] Yeah indeed, in the end I tried to give a realistic view on it. I'd assume you have to restrict the blood flow in the bitten limb [I]really fast[/I], and then proceed to amputate, lest you become sick from the bacteria and other filth, and then either die and turn zombie, or just turn zombie, whatever way you'd want the magic to work. After all it's fiction, but almost like science-fiction. So many different types of zombies too, some more scientific some less so, like growling out "Braaainzz!!" is pretty silly when thinking "realistically." [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] I love fucking zombies. [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] I mean, I fucking love zombies.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49785232] I love fucking zombies. [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] I mean, I fucking love zombies.[/QUOTE] Damn right you do.

It can be as fast as the author wants it to be.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49783482]Depends on the zombie-type. 28 Laters zombies work by virus, and you turn almost immediately (which perhaps doesn't make sense either), but you won't last as long seeing as you don't really care about eating or drinking water anymore, just a raging lunatic, who never cools down. But you seem to be talking about The Walking Dead zombies, or they at least fit the description. It's not known what causes it (at least in the TV so far) however you must DIE to something/anything before you can become zombie, so you don't just turn. And in TWD, they have "proven" amputation to work. But I guess you would have to tie up the bitten arm immediately, to stop the blood flowing, which they don't do before the amputation itself though.[/QUOTE] Not to derail the thread, but you know how in TWD everyone already has the walker virus in them? Wouldn't new generations of humans slowly become immune to it. Like (and correct me if I'm wrong) how rodents, and bugs can evolve to form a immunity to poisons? Wouldn't the human body do the same?

Depends how thick the plot armor is.

Remember that it's not the bites that kill you on The Walking Dead it's really the bacteria and shit that is on their nails and teeth that kill you. Three's no virus to transmit. So amputations work so long as the limb is cleaned. No one is immune to simple unsanitary infections so that is why they die from bites, but if they get blood on them it's awright. Personally the virus from Garth Ennis' Crossed series is very interesting. As the virus itself so transmitted realistically and just takes over the earth because of how quickly a virus spread through spit ,blood, vomit, and every fluid people produce can move. It essentially turns people into their worst selves, still alive but psychopathic. Especially since it has the opposite effect on people who were psychopath before they got infected, it makes them sane and allows them to plan and lead the other Crossed. Well they aren't zombies but they have a cool virus.

[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;49790249]Not to derail the thread, but you know how in TWD everyone already has the walker virus in them? Wouldn't new generations of humans slowly become immune to it. Like (and correct me if I'm wrong) how rodents, and bugs can evolve to form a immunity to poisons? Wouldn't the human body do the same?[/QUOTE] Yeah, I know how in TWD "everyone" is already infected. I doubt it's a virus though, but it hasn't even been established, at least not in the TV. Viruses seek for live host cells.. As for how species exactly evolve immunity to [I]poisons[/I]? You may have picked an all-encompassing word that can refer to basically any substance, all of which become harmful to you if you consume too much of it? I don't think there's immunity for that. But you can defeat and become immune to viruses, and then be introduced to new ones. Where's Zonesylvnia when you need him?

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49790518]Yeah, I know how in TWD "everyone" is already infected. I doubt it's a virus though, but it hasn't even been established, at least not in the TV. Viruses seek for live host cells.. As for how species exactly evolve immunity to [I]poisons[/I]? You may have picked an all-encompassing word that can refer to basically any substance, all of which become harmful to you if you consume too much of it? I don't think there's immunity for that. But you can defeat and become immune to viruses, and then be introduced to new ones. Where's Zonesylvnia when you need him?[/QUOTE] Talking about TWD in a serious manner is kinda pointless, considering they have literally dead bodies walking around for years without any food or water. But what i really like about zombies it that they have a pretty illusive but nonzero chance of getting real via some infection or fungus or whatnot. But anyway, even if the pathogen will go airborne, the worst part would still be the deadliness of the infection itself, not the fact that it turns you into zombie, since the millitary in those hazmat suits would just easily obliterate any possible number of infected people with their armor. I mean, how can possibly even a huge but brainless crowd of zombies take over a couple of tanks rolling on them? But anyway, any number of infected would eventually (and very soon) die from dehydration and stuff. So, no classical zombie apocalypse for us guys.

[QUOTE=yellowoboe;49790307]Depends how thick the plot armor is.[/QUOTE] Not thick enough for lee apparently.

[QUOTE=antianan;49791580]Talking about TWD in a serious manner is kinda pointless, considering they have literally dead bodies walking around for years without any food or water. But what i really like about zombies it that they have a pretty illusive but nonzero chance of getting real via some infection or fungus or whatnot. But anyway, even if the pathogen will go airborne, the worst part would still be the deadliness of the infection itself, not the fact that it turns you into zombie, since the millitary in those hazmat suits would just easily obliterate any possible number of infected people with their armor. I mean, how can possibly even a huge but brainless crowd of zombies take over a couple of tanks rolling on them? But anyway, [I]any number of infected would eventually (and very soon) die from dehydration and stuff[/I]. So, no classical zombie apocalypse for us guys.[/QUOTE] But they're already dead. They don't even benefit from the raw meat & blood they're consuming, i.e when a zombie has its entire lower half missing. And they're rotting away constantly and badly, they get easily stuck etc., so they won't just walk around for years.. And new people fall victim all the time, die and turn into new zombies. Thus, you get varying states of decay. However the starvation is true for "28 Laterz" zombies, which are not dead. And they will die to the same injuries as normal people, unlike TWD zombies which can sustain insane injury and still "live on" in their "post-mortem" zombie state, unless the brain is destroyed.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49792205]But they're already dead. They don't even benefit from the raw meat & blood they're consuming, i.e when a zombie has its entire lower half missing. And they're rotting away constantly and badly, they get easily stuck etc., so they won't just walk around for years.. And new people fall victim all the time, die and turn into new zombies. Thus, you get varying states of decay. [/QUOTE] This is basically what i meant. TWD just can't be taken seriously from the scientific point of view. As far as i know, lactic acids and some other stuff just dissolute in dead bodies after some short period of time, making the muscles rigid, which virtually makes a body incapable to move at all. I mean, i understand that TWD is a living classic of zombie movies, but it's so stupid.

never fully understood how destroying the brain can efectively kill a zombie whose body is already deprived of several other necesary body fluids. the lack of blood stream is one thing, but a zombie would be unable to sustain its own weight, let alone hold itself together after a few days due to its muscles becoming more and more rigid, and even then the virus itself wouldn't really spread that easily since zombies, even though numerous, would be slow as hell and easily avoidable. a parasite would be an even more feasible aproach to the whole concept of a zombie, with the whole thing about spreading the infection and becoming part of the horde. the whole thing with zombies seems to rely way, way more on "mumbo-jumbo" than anyone would ever like to admit.

[QUOTE=antianan;49792720]This is basically what i meant. TWD just can't be taken seriously from the scientific point of view. [I]As far as i know, lactic acids and some other stuff just dissolute in dead bodies after some short period of time, making the muscles rigid, which virtually makes a body incapable to move at all.[/I] I mean, i understand that TWD is a living classic of zombie movies, but it's so stupid.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's all magic when you bring certain biological facts on the table. :vs:

[QUOTE=Slipperss;49783481]Thanks! That's what I was looking for. Unfortunately I couldn't find the speed of the bigger veins in your arms, the basilic and cephalic veins. If you get bitten in those, I don't think you can amputate fast enough for it not to spread though. Who knows :P[/QUOTE] Depends a fair amount on the person. I haven't been in CT in a while, but we typically get a decent bolus of contrast in the aorta about 20 seconds after injection for a CT aorta, and that is typically done by an autoinjector at around 4 ml/s (or more) into the arm. This is with like a total of 3 weeks CT experience over 3 years as a student though, but we aren't really looking at exact medical stuff, more getting an idea.

Ask Fela Kuti

[QUOTE=gary spivey;49793707]Ask Fela Kuti[/QUOTE] Rhetorical, with a hint of trying to be funny, yet follows no semantic purpose. Maybe you should try to be funny with people rather than just towards people.

[QUOTE=Solodris;49793742]Rhetorical, with a hint of trying to be funny, yet follows no semantic purpose. Maybe you should try to be funny with people rather than just towards people.[/QUOTE] :why::why:

[QUOTE=Scizor;49794328]:why::why:[/QUOTE] Was that unjustified? Sorry I've been put on a new form of medication that sometimes makes me slightly aggressive.

[QUOTE=Metaru;49792776]never fully understood how destroying the brain can efectively kill a zombie whose body is already deprived of several other necesary body fluids. the lack of blood stream is one thing, but a zombie would be unable to sustain its own weight, let alone hold itself together after a few days due to its muscles becoming more and more rigid, and even then the virus itself wouldn't really spread that easily since zombies, even though numerous, would be slow as hell and easily avoidable. a parasite would be an even more feasible aproach to the whole concept of a zombie, with the whole thing about spreading the infection and becoming part of the horde. the whole thing with zombies seems to rely way, way more on "mumbo-jumbo" than anyone would ever like to admit.[/QUOTE] I've always thought of Zombies to be more of a controlled entity than just a rotting corpse walking around. I've always seen a "Zombie Infection" as a sort of parasite (if I had to compare it to reality) that would control the host to the point that it supplied its own help to other (possibly) vital organs and mainly controls the brain which, in turn, controls the host's movement and behavior. That's why destroying the brain will always kill the Zombie (in 99% of cases) because the "Infected Parasite" has completely been unhinged from its host's power house and control center. Thus, in turn, losing its own vital supply to the host's organs, behavior, movement, etc.; resulting in death. You have to keep in mind that most Zombie plots are the Shamblers/Shufflers/Slow/Walkers, that is because the "Infected Parasite (Infection)" only has just a slight grasp on the host's movement. That's why Zombies aren't, usually, as agile as a regular human being. Think of it as like using a puppet and being able to control the entire thing through just it's head. BUT, with it being just a simple infection and not some sort of "Magic Mind Control", it results in the slow movement. Now, as for the Runners/Sprinters/28 Days(Weeks) Later kind of Zombies. I see that as more of a "Rage-Inducing Viral Infection" than a Parasite. If you notice in the movies 28 Days/Weeks Later that the Infected tend to retain some of their natural thought. Hence some hesitation, a deeper thought process, and the ability to know what is right/wrong, but unfortunately, be unable to do anything to differentiate between the two. Considering also, perhaps, the fact that the host isn't completely and entirely dead through out the infection process, rendering their body fully capable of realizing its sick but not being able to do anything about it and it will lose it's control but maintain its motor function. Just as any regular human who is so sick to the point of losing absolute control; they, too, can be killed just by damaging/removing/destroying the brain. (This also applies to the Left 4 Dead Infected) I'm a big guy on Zombies. Don't even get me started.

I for one thinks that the most probable cause of zombies is a strain of rabies that causes humans and animals to be hyper aggressive. The cordyceps fungi zombie is also possible in a realistic situation, but it'll need a very mutated strain of spores to do so.

I'm writing a post-apocalyptic novel featuring 28DL-esque zombies. There is a resistible form of the disease that's transmitted by external sources (food, water, blood, etc) and a 100% infectious mutation that comes through bites as it's directly exposed to the bloodstream. There's an arc where a character gets infected and spends a day losing his shit as he's unsure whether or not he is going to be able to fight it off or not. I'm deliberately vague about the nature of the disease as it isn't important to the plot, and it's kind of not the point of writing a novel to be completely, absolutely true to life and realistic. I don't know enough about infectious diseases or the human body to do so, and neither do most readers; nor would it really add anything to the story to do so. Instead, I'm more concerned about the effects such a thing would have on society and the reality of what would happen to most of the infected a little ways in. After about a year, almost everyone who was infected died of exposure or other problems as a result of their diminished intelligence, amnesia and aggression. As well, most high-density places in the world without access to modern medicine or sanitation are almost completely wiped clean of human life. That'd be the net effect of something so infectious and so difficult to treat. The more salient issue is that the plague creates a massive refugee crisis and causes many states to implode, as well as the collapse of most large-scale industrial production the world over. Suffice to say, I've recently had to take a break from it as I found the subject matter a bit too depressing.

[QUOTE=Matlas;49790496]Remember that it's not the bites that kill you on The Walking Dead it's really the bacteria and shit that is on their nails and teeth that kill you. Three's no virus to transmit. So amputations work so long as the limb is cleaned. No one is immune to simple unsanitary infections so that is why they die from bites, but if they get blood on them it's awright. Personally the virus from Garth Ennis' Crossed series is very interesting. As the virus itself so transmitted realistically and just takes over the earth because of how quickly a virus spread through spit ,blood, vomit, and every fluid people produce can move. It essentially turns people into their worst selves, still alive but psychopathic. Especially since it has the opposite effect on people who were psychopath before they got infected, it makes them sane and allows them to plan and lead the other Crossed. Well they aren't zombies but they have a cool virus.[/QUOTE] Thank you for directing me to this beauty. [img]http://www.crossedcomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/crossed_01_01_color-b.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.crossedcomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/crossed_01_02_color-b.jpg[/img] ** Holy shit, this comic is really the best. The story is absolutely fantastic imo. [sp]Jackson the best sheepfucker+crossed killer[/sp]

I'm working on a unique type of zombie infection thing for a game that a friend of mine and me hopefully will get in the works. Something that allows for a variety of different types of zombies and other inhumane abominations :3 [T]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55477377/meatmonster_1_web.png[/T] [T]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55477377/meatmonster_2_web.png[/T] [T]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55477377/noice_pooch.png[/T] Although these concepts would be very late stage infections including a few "reincarnations".