[quote] Purchasers of the beta version who have already been playing the game online, however, were [B]flat-out denied a return on their investment[/B][/quote]
The author implying that the entire game is ruined because he can't farm offline anymore. Frontier would have been better off straight canceling the game than removing offline mode as far as this horde is concerned.
[QUOTE=Mbbird;46542369]The author implying that the entire game is ruined because you can't farm offline anymore. Frontier would have been better off straight canceling the game than removing their beloved offline mode as far as this horde is concerned.[/QUOTE]
They misled people for several years into thinking there would be an offline mode, right up until the last month before the games release. That decision was apparantly made over a year ago but they still didn't tell anyone because they "wanted to be sure" it wasn't possible, and when they did announce it was removed they only mentioned it very briefly and tried to make it seem like it wasn't a big deal. They then refused to refund anyone even though they are longer going to give them what they said they would, because those people gave them money to help them improve their game so therefore they don't deserve to be refunded. They aren't going to be able to provide all their kickstarter rewards either as the game now requires a connection, one of the tiers included a DRM-Free version and an online connection being required is a form of DRM. Yeah, must be the people complaining who are the ones at fault here, Frontier have done nothing wrong, right?. They've also said if the servers do eventually go down they will find a way to make the game still playable, but they don't want do do that at the moment because it "Isn't possible" and would conflict with their vision, along with revealing the 'spoilers' of the game.
[QUOTE=nightlord;46542396]They misled people for several years into thinking there would be an offline mode, right up until the last month before the games release. They then refused to give money back to anyone even though they are longer going to provide what they said they would. They aren't fully providing their kickstarter rewards by not having an offline mode as that counts as DRM, and one of the rewards was a DRM-free version. Yeah, must be the people complaining who are the ones at fault here.[/QUOTE]
I'm aware of the situation. Thank you for the cookie-cutter response. I'm talking about something a bit different.
[QUOTE=Mbbird;46542369]The author implying that the entire game is ruined because he can't farm offline anymore. Frontier would have been better off straight canceling the game than removing offline mode as far as this horde is concerned.[/QUOTE]
Offline mode would have been truly offline and have no bearing on the online game whatsoever. You can't "farm" offline and then take your spoils online. You're thinking about solo mode which isn't going anywhere.
[QUOTE=nightlord;46542396]They misled people for several years into thinking there would be an offline mode, right up until the last month before the games release. That decision was apparantly made over a year ago but they still didn't tell anyone because they "wanted to be sure" it wasn't possible, and when they did announce it was removed they only mentioned it very briefly and tried to make it seem like it wasn't a big deal. They then refused to refund anyone even though they are longer going to give them what they said they would, because those people gave them money to help them improve their game so therefore they don't deserve to be refunded. They aren't going to be able to provide all their kickstarter rewards either as the game now requires a connection, one of the tiers included a DRM-Free version and an online connection being required is a form of DRM. Yeah, must be the people complaining who are the ones at fault here, Frontier have done nothing wrong, right?. They've also said if the servers do eventually go down they will find a way to make the game still playable, but they don't want do do that at the moment because it "Isn't possible" and would conflict with their vision, along with revealing the 'spoilers' of the game.[/QUOTE]
Guess what, companies fuck up sometimes. At least they acknowledged their mistake of telling people about it this late and are offering refunds to those that ask for it.
The devs delivered more than the Kickstarter originally mentioned, including 5 ships of which backers can pick 1 once the game goes into the Gamma version before release.
I don't think it's such a huge deal to assume that people have a decent enough connection to connect to the servers and I doubt this was a choice made lightly on their part.
People are making this out to be a bigger deal than it is.
[QUOTE=Demoness;46542664]Guess what, companies fuck up sometimes. At least they acknowledged their mistake of telling people about it this late and are offering refunds to those that ask for it.
The devs delivered more than the Kickstarter originally mentioned, including 5 ships of which backers can pick 1 once the game goes into the Gamma version before release.
I don't think it's such a huge deal to assume that people have a decent enough connection to connect to the servers and I doubt this was a choice made lightly on their part.
People are making this out to be a bigger deal than it is.[/QUOTE]
It's not just about them removing the offline part, that isn't really a problem for most people. It's the way they did it and how they've handled things.
[QUOTE=nightlord;46542695]It's not just about them removing the offline part, that isn't really a problem for most people. It's the way they did it and how they've handled things.[/QUOTE]
Considering how well they've communicated with the community and listened to them up to this point I don't think it's too hard to forgive them for fucking up this once.
I was hoping this game was going to have a SP campaign. I miss those.
[QUOTE=Demoness;46542710]Considering how well they've communicated with the community and listened to them up to this point I don't think it's too hard to forgive them for fucking up this once.[/QUOTE]
Deciding not to tell the community that they'd removed the offline mode, which was an important feature to a lot of people, until a month before the game is released and then only giving it a brief mention in a newsletter while trying to make it seem unimportant definitely shows just how good at communicating and listening to the community they are.
[QUOTE=nightlord;46542732]Deciding not to tell the community that they'd removed the offline mode, which was an important feature to a lot of people, until a month before the game is released, and then only giving it a brief mention in a newsletter and trying to make it seem unimportant definitely shows just how good at communicating and listening to the community they are.[/QUOTE]
Yes and since then they haven't explained themselves further or said it was a mistake to say it in such a way or offered refunds for those who no longer wish to play the game or anything.
[QUOTE=Why485;46542528]Offline mode would have been truly offline and have no bearing on the online game whatsoever. You can't "farm" offline and then take your spoils online. You're thinking about solo mode which isn't going anywhere.[/QUOTE]
wait...let me get this straight
the game will have to be always connected to the internet, but, like before, you can still play alone if you want to?
[QUOTE=Mbbird;46543197]wait...let me get this straight
the game will have to be always connected to the internet, but, like before, you can still play alone if you want to?[/QUOTE]
Yes, solo mode is still in the game.
Plus the whole connected universe the guy below me mentions, which personally for me is one of the reasons I find the game interesting.
[QUOTE=Mbbird;46543197]wait...let me get this straight
the game will have to be always connected to the internet, but, like before, you can still play alone if you want to?[/QUOTE]
No, not exactly. You can play in a universe that doesn't actually have other players, but it is still part of the shared universe so things like events and the trading system are affected by other players (even though they aren't actually in the same game as you). Your game will be influenced by other players even in singleplayer.
[QUOTE=nightlord;46543218]No, not exactly. You can play in a universe that doesn't actually have other players, but it is still part of the shared universe so things like events and the trading system are affected by other players (even though they aren't actually in the same game as you). Your game will be influenced by other players even in singleplayer.[/QUOTE]
so this shitfest is just over DRM
god [I]damn[/I].
[QUOTE=Mbbird;46544315]so this shitfest is just over DRM
god [I]damn[/I].[/QUOTE]
It's over the game dropping the offline mode that was promised, but it's more to do with the developers misleading people for so long, not providing what they said they would and just that they've handled it poorly by leaving it until a month before the game is out to announce they cut a major feature. Up until earlier this month they were saying the offline mode was still coming, but then suddenly it's not and they stopped working on it a while ago. Apparently on the official forums one developer confirms that the offline mode was dropped a year ago, but in a recent interview one of them says it was a recent decision. They've said they "wanted to be sure" it wasn't possible, and i doubt they only found out a month before release.
At first they said it wasn't possible to do as the game uses the servers for certain things, but they've now said if they shut the servers down at some point they'll make it so it's still playable, but because of spoilers they won't do that at the moment. Their main reasons for no offline mode are spoilers, it's too much work (because they've built the game to be always-online) and it would be "a completely different game". They've also refused to refund most people who are unhappy about it if they've already played the game, those people have paid to help test the game and fund development but because of that they aren't getting refunds as they've already played part of what they paid for. It also means no mods for the game.
For those unfamilliar with the game: they've implemented a system that keeps track of every player's action, which side they choose in a conflict, which regions of space they discover and which faction they decide to share this information with, things like that.
The server will then act according to the actions of all those thousands of players to steer the game in a certain direction. Say for example there's a conflict over a newly discovered asteroid belt rich with valuable minerals, there might end up being a war between two factions who both want to claim this for themselves, the players who join in the battle are helping decide who ends up getting the region through their actions, this then might result in cheaper ships you can get in the space ports of those factions because they now own a new income of materials required for such ships.
This is how they plan on making the online system work and why they decided to make it online-only. The events that happen in the universe are influenced by actions of all the players, not just one who stands at the center of attention.
Of course we'll have to see how it ends up when the game finally releases but if they can implement that system properly it sounds amazing to me.
How about an offline mode that just removes that, yes, it wouldn't be great, but still, lying about this shit is the reason I decided not to buy it. also, isn't Star Citizen doing something like that too? Its going to have an offline mode.
[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;46544676]How about an offline mode that just removes that, yes, it wouldn't be great, but still, lying about this shit is the reason I decided not to buy it. also, isn't Star Citizen doing something like that too? Its going to have an offline mode.[/QUOTE]
Star citizen is a different game
Apples to oranges
I don't know why it irks me so much that people are so bothered about this offline mode. If you backed it then you knew the risks. Even preordering has its own risks. Both entail uncertainty of the final product but the money going towards it essentially says that you are okay with it.
Those that aren't buying it now because they only want to play offline makes sense, however those who aren't going to buy it and didn't care about singleplayer, but are only making the decision based on the devs not shoehorning in singleplayer at the cost of better multiplayer just makes no sense
I recommend everyone who is interested in the game but won't get it due to the lack of an offline mode to take it to the forums or better yet write an email to the devs explaining why you won't get the game now.
That's honestly the best you can do. The more people who are vocal about this the more likely it becomes that they'll add something like it in the future.
To clarify I'm not against an offline mode in the game nor am I pro-online-only, I merely trust the devs to have made a creative choice in the matter... not one to deliberately try and piss people off, no matter how dumb it was to announce it in such a way.
I'm totally with the devs decision to not work on it as long as the reason was like they said ~"it wouldn't work with the design approach we are taking"
As long as the multiplayer is the focus (and I really want them to improve the current multiplayer interactions), then in fact I'd rather them do that then try to appease only a minority of people who would rather be alone in the vastness of space
[QUOTE=Mbbird;46542369]The author implying that the entire game is ruined because he can't farm offline anymore. Frontier would have been better off straight canceling the game than removing offline mode as far as this horde is concerned.[/QUOTE]
Do you order a pizza with pepperonis and not complain when it's cheese?
[QUOTE=gk99;46544987]Do you order a pizza with pepperonis and not complain when it's cheese?[/QUOTE]
The only way that analogy would work is if you crowdsourced a pizza in which the description said "We're thinking of making a pizza, and of course it will have cheese, however toppings may vary based on availability and majority's interest, but were thinking of pepperoni."
[QUOTE=Karmah;46546480]The only way that analogy would work is if you crowdsourced a pizza in which the description said "We're thinking of making a pizza, and of course it will have cheese, however toppings may vary based on availability and majority's interest, but were thinking of pepperoni."[/QUOTE]
Except that isn't what happened with this game. They promised something, decided that wasn't going to happen but waited until right before release to tell anyone. It wasn't "We'll maybe have an offline mode" it was something they said they would actually have in the game and right up until this month, kept saying it would be in the game.
A closer analogy would be something like "We're making a cheese pizza, but don't worry we'll add pepperoni as well because people want that" and then right as it arrives you find out it's just cheese, and it was unlikely to ever have the pepperoni in the first place and they knew that all along.
People are upset over this because of the way they mishandled the announcement. Can you really blame them? They botched this one up beyond belief and it doesn't help that they're not going to refund anyone who lives in spotty areas where it's nearly impossible to play.
[QUOTE=Korova;46548390]People are upset over this because of the way they mishandled the announcement. Can you really blame them? They botched this one up beyond belief and it doesn't help that they're not going to refund anyone who lives in spotty areas where it's nearly impossible to play.[/QUOTE]
Anyone who preordered the regular edition of the game is free to cancel that preorder and get their money back. Those who preordered the beta (or even alpha) version of the game and want a refund are being looked at at a case-by-case basis, which is fair enough if you ask me.
I don't blame people who wanted an offline mode for wanting a refund, that's their choice, but if you've already played who knows many hours of the beta (which is also online-only) and claim that a lack of an offline mode is a problem then obviously something else is up.
[QUOTE=Demoness;46548536]Anyone who preordered the regular edition of the game is free to cancel that preorder and get their money back. Those who preordered the beta (or even alpha) version of the game and want a refund are being looked at at a case-by-case basis, which is fair enough if you ask me.
I don't blame people who wanted an offline mode for wanting a refund, that's their choice, but if you've already played who knows many hours of the beta (which is also online-only) and claim that a lack of an offline mode is a problem then obviously something else is up.[/QUOTE]
If you mean it as in something like "You were fine playing the beta even though it was online-only, so you shouldn't get a refund" it's not as simple as that, though. The beta being online-only shouldn't really make any difference, people bought the beta to help the development and to test the game, that was all that was available to play at the time and the developers kept saying the offline mode would be coming later. You can't expect people to want to help the development of the game, buy the beta and then not do anything with it because it's not exactly what they want: they still payed for the online mode and that was all that was available, the gameplay for the offline mode should of been almost identical to that so by playing the online mode they would of been helping improve the offline mode as well.
Some people might just be trying to get a refund because they are bored of the game and can use this as an excuse, but that doesn't invalidate the reasons behind others wanting their money back because of this.
If someone has played the online mode but for some reason the lack of an offline mode is a massive no-no to them then yes, they probably should get a refund.
However this is a tough situation and they need to look at it based on the person.
It's a shitty situation and they should've handled it better in the first place but at least they're working on it now. When it comes to kickstarter/early access games you could've gotten it much much much worse. Take for example Double Fine who simply pulled a game from alpha and released it on steam because "they couldn't support it any more" or Yogsventures which was flat-out canceled and backers were offered a crappy early access minecraft clone instead of getting a refund. Frontier delivered on pretty much everything mentioned in their kickstarter and more, yet now people are calling for their heads because they made a shitty PR-related mistake and took a creative choice when it comes to the offline mode.
[QUOTE=Demoness;46548744]If someone has played the online mode but for some reason the lack of an offline mode is a massive no-no to them then yes, they probably should get a refund.
However this is a tough situation and they need to look at it based on the person.
It's a shitty situation and they should've handled it better in the first place but at least they're working on it now. When it comes to kickstarter/early access games you could've gotten it much much much worse. Take for example Double Fine who simply pulled a game from alpha and released it on steam because "they couldn't support it any more" or Yogsventures which was flat-out canceled and backers were offered a crappy early access minecraft clone instead of getting a refund. Frontier delivered on pretty much everything mentioned in their kickstarter and more, yet now people are calling for their heads because they made a shitty PR-related mistake and took a creative choice when it comes to the offline mode.[/QUOTE]
They didn't deliver on everything in their kickstarter though, that's what this is all about. They didn't deliver on the DRM-Free game and the offline mode, both of which are important things to quite a lot of people. If it had been a small insignificant thing that they promised and then had to change there wouldn't be as much of a problem, but they aren't going to provide two large aspects of the game that were promised. It's not a "creative choice" to remove the offline mode entirely when that was promised as part of the game. It was promised in several places, some of them earlier this year - The Kickstarter, the site, several times by developers on their forum, in an AMA, in interviews etc.
If your product is significantly less engaging in an offline mode then yes, I'd call it a creative choice to remove that.
You might not agree with that choice and they might've promised otherwise but when it comes to designing games things change around a lot.
It's not a turn-off when it comes to me and a lot of other people, I have a crappy internet connection but I'm able to play both solo and multiplayer just fine. But again I can imagine it is a huge issue for others and yes Frontier should refund them if that's the case (which they are for as far as I know).
I donno what else you expect.
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