I can't seem to decide between the MSI Twin Frozr GTX 770 2GB and the R9 280X. I've seen some people say they are both quite similar in performance although the R9 280X is cheaper and offers 1 extra GB of VRAM. I've also heard some people experiencing overheating issues with the R9 280X although MSI released a new BIOS to fix those issues.
Current card is the Sapphire 6870.
people say r9 is better but the gtx 770 has [URL="http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/geforce-shadowplay-beta-available-october-28"]shadowplay[/URL] and very stable drivers, its only a little bit more but people seem to make way too much a deal out of that
the biggest thing you should do is not base it purely on speed or preference, as both cards have their benefits. Nvidia is more expensive and AMD is faster, but Nvidia is much more stable, and AMD has a bad history, I've had bad history with AMD myself. [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeRpvWLMLs"]Shadow play[/URL] records everything I want it to pretty much flawlessly with a very large amount of quality, but that might not be that important if you're not going to use it, and theres tons of different things to record stuff anyways.
[QUOTE=J!NX;43029535]people say r9 is better but the gtx 770 has [URL="http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/geforce-shadowplay-beta-available-october-28"]shadowplay[/URL] and very stable drivers[/QUOTE]
Well, what about MSI Predator, isn't it like Shadowplay? Also, what about AMD's Mantle?
[QUOTE=sa2fan;43029595]Well, what about MSI Predator, isn't it like Shadowplay? Also, what about AMD's Mantle?[/QUOTE]
I can only speak for SP as I've used it but I know AMD = cheaper, faster, Nvidia = Stable, stronger
Stable? So the recent driver issues that literally caused some Nvidia cards to fry is considered stable? Both companies have had problems. Take two prime issues: the one I've already mentioned where live drivers caused some cards to fry and numerous crashes in numerous games, and AMD's earlier issues with microStutter in which CFX had large amounts of microstutter compared to the relatively smoother Nvidia SLI. Both of these problems have been fixed, both companies will have more problems in the future, and both companies have had numerous problems in the past. Neither is really better than one or the other. The R9 280X is faster and cheaper than the GTX 770, so the R9 280X is my recommendation. Although there is some truth to choosing a specific card over another because of exclusive features, but unless you are going to make specific, frequent use of those features and there aren't any same performing or better performing alternatives, there is no reason to buy a graphics card because of them.
TL;DR- Don't brand preference; neither company is better, both have had shitty moments and glorious ones.
Specifically I'm going to recommend the Twin Frozr R9 280X since it has the best cooler out all the other non-reference brands.
[QUOTE=flayne;43030019]Stable? So the recent driver issues that literally caused some Nvidia cards to fry is considered stable? Both companies have had problems. Take two prime issues: the one I've already mentioned where live drivers caused some cards to fry and numerous crashes in numerous games, and AMD's earlier issues with microStutter in which CFX had large amounts of microstutter compared to the relatively smoother Nvidia SLI. Both of these problems have been fixed, both companies will have more problems in the future, and both companies have had numerous problems in the past. Neither is really better than one or the other. The R9 280X is faster and cheaper than the GTX 770, so the R9 280X is my recommendation. Although there is some truth to choosing a specific card over another because of exclusive features, but unless you are going to make specific, frequent use of those features and there aren't any same performing or better performing alternatives, there is no reason to buy a graphics card because of them.
TL;DR- Don't brand preference; neither company is better, both have had shitty moments and glorious ones.
Specifically I'm going to recommend the Twin Frozr R9 280X since it has the best cooler out all the other non-reference brands.[/QUOTE]
Should I update its BIOS when I get it?
I've not heard of any BIOS issues with the cards, nor can I find anything online regarding this. I'm not sure where you heard of this overheating issue from. Twin Frozr R9 280X's have the best cooling you can get.
i'd recommend the 770 gtx if you even think about overclocking. I just bought the 770 gtx, and it runs at an overclock at 120+ core and 500+ memory, and even puts my friend's 660Sli to shame. It'll be stable too. It runs fairly cool, and quiet too. i'm at 23C on idle, 49 on regular load and 65 max, when i use furmark. The drivers, and shadowplay run fairly stable, and the 280x just can't keep up when the 770gtx is overclocked.
[editline]1st December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=flayne;43030465]I've not heard of any BIOS issues with the cards, nor can I find anything online regarding this. I'm not sure where you heard of this overheating issue from. Twin Frozr R9 280X's have the best cooling you can get.[/QUOTE]
Some sites are reporting overheating and compromised power because of it. a lot of the coolers, especially on the 280-290x series have been found to have messed up heatsinks.
I have the ACX cooler version by EVGA of the 770 gtx, by the way.
[QUOTE=flayne;43030465]I've not heard of any BIOS issues with the cards, nor can I find anything online regarding this. I'm not sure where you heard of this overheating issue from. Twin Frozr R9 280X's have the best cooling you can get.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/146769/msi-r9280x-3072-131009.html[/url]
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;43030563]i'd recommend the 770 gtx if you even think about overclocking. I just bought the 770 gtx, and it runs at an overclock at 120+ core and 500+ memory, and even puts my friend's 660Sli to shame. It'll be stable too. It runs fairly cool, and quiet too. i'm at 23C on idle, 49 on regular load and 65 max, when i use furmark. The drivers, and shadowplay run fairly stable, and the 280x just can't keep up when the 770gtx is overclocked.
[editline]1st December 2013[/editline]
Some sites are reporting overheating and compromised power because of it. a lot of the coolers, especially on the 280-290x series have been found to have messed up heatsinks.
I have the ACX cooler version by EVGA of the 770 gtx, by the way.[/QUOTE]
You are aware the R9 280X can be overclocked right? An overclocked R9 280X will also beat an overclocked 770 since it's faster to begin with.
Well, I'm not really planning to overclock.
[QUOTE=flayne;43030730]You are aware the R9 280X can be overclocked right? An overclocked R9 280X will also beat an overclocked 770 since it's faster to begin with.[/QUOTE]
I know they can be overclocked, but not so much so as the 770gtx, in fact if i remember correctly, they got an 8-10% overclock vs the GTX 770's 15-20% at max.
[img]http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1381749747uEpep2oCxY_2_1.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1381749747uEpep2oCxY_2_2.gif[/img]
There's a few others, but the gtx 770 wins overclock wise, and that's only a mild one.
Sa2fan, It's a good thing to be able to have, none the less, for the future and otherwise. i got an extra year's worth of life out of my 560ti because of overclocking, and for comparison to the overclock, I did a few benchmarking runs of 3dmark11.
Stock CPU/GPU: [url]http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7588787?[/url] P9657
Stock GPU, OCed CPU : [url]http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7588804?[/url] P9972
Oc'ed CPU/GPU: [url]http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7588710?[/url] P10384
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;43030861]I know they can be overclocked, but not so much so as the 770gtx, in fact if i remember correctly, they got an 8-10% overclock vs the GTX 770's 15-20% at max.
[img]http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1381749747uEpep2oCxY_2_1.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1381749747uEpep2oCxY_2_2.gif[/img]
There's a few others, but the gtx 770 wins overclock wise, and that's only a mild one.
Sa2fan, It's a good thing to be able to have, none the less, for the future and otherwise. i got an extra year's worth of life out of my 560ti because of overclocking, and for comparison to the overclock, I did a few benchmarking runs of 3dmark11.
Stock CPU/GPU: [url]http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7588787?[/url] P9657
Stock GPU, OCed CPU : [url]http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7588804?[/url] P9972
Oc'ed CPU/GPU: [url]http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7588710?[/url] P10384[/QUOTE]
280x maxs out every current game though. And is faster and cheaper and should max out games for a few years yet. Also, them pictures are comparing the ASUS 280x. The MSI version is far better since as stated it has way better cooling.
[QUOTE=Neddy;43030908]280x maxs out every current game though. And is faster and cheaper and should max out games for a few years yet.[/QUOTE]
During the days of the 8800 series, people had that same view, two months later crysis came out, then crysis warhead the next year, and then bad company 2, it's not a surefire bet to say that. although it's cheaper, you'll get longer life through the gtx770 because of increased overclocking potential, and i'm not sure but i think you still get a bundle of games, (AC4, B:O, SC:BL) alongside it.
Really, it's up to the user, if you want just a regular card with no overclocking or otherwise, go for the R9 280x, If you want a little more for about the same price ratio, get the EVGA gtx 770 ACX cooling edition. that's my view.
[editline]1st December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=sa2fan;43030794]Well, I'm not really planning to overclock.[/QUOTE]
Also, what's your CPU, and your screen resolution?
i7 860
1920x1080
[QUOTE=sa2fan;43031044]i7 860
1920x1080[/QUOTE]
That seems like it'd handle either card well. You could max out nearly any game with that resolution, excepting the few like crysis 3 or otherwise.
In my opinion the GTX770 would suit you well, since you don't need that extra Vram, because of your resolution, and it has some overclockability, but if you're really not sure about OC'ing, and just want a powerful starting card, just get the 280x, considering you wouldn't take advantage of the overclockability of either card.
what site were you thinking of buying from?
I'm just kind of worried about overclocking, not to mention how small my case is. Mid-Size ATX.
Also, probably going to look for them at a local computer shop.
[QUOTE=sa2fan;43029595]Well, what about MSI Predator, isn't it like Shadowplay? Also, what about AMD's Mantle?[/QUOTE]
Since i haven't addressed this yet, Mantle, although it will benefit some games, won't at the end of the day make much difference, judging by 3dfx's Glide, in fact, Glide actually complicated the situation and only made things worse by biasing the market, although it was faster than direct x. i theorize that mantle will be similar or otherwise the same.
[editline]1st December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=sa2fan;43031112]I'm just kind of worried about overclocking, not to mention how small my case is. Mid-Size ATX.
Also, probably going to look for them at a local computer shop.[/QUOTE]
If you use EVGA precision, and as long as you test your overclock, and take it in steps of about 10mhx for core, maybe 25 for memory you'll be fine, and even then the worst thing that can happen is a driver crash, which nvidia is good at covering, and if you get EVGA, they cover the overclocking under warranty, so if anything goes wrong you're covered. There's not much to worry about, and i have a case that is exceptionally small, but the GTX770 fits fine.
Is this the card you have?
[url]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130921[/url]
It's a tiny bit expensive that's why I'd rather chose the MSI Twin Frozr one.
That is the card I have, and I can see why, but the evga can oc it's memory over 8ghz, compared to the max msi can offer, which is 7.6
I probably won't do much overclocking, like I said. I understand that the ability to do so is even better but I'd probably leave them at default. I might touch the parameters at some point but I'm not expecting a super overclocking.
either one of the cards is going to shit on any game so personally I'd go with what is best with SLI as you'll want to SLI some time later
Both cards look like they're very much great and 30$ isn't that much, so SLI or a coin toss :v: If you aren't looking at brand, you're not going to see [I]that[/I] much of a difference.
If you're pushing more than 7.6 GHz on a memory overclock, you are doing some serious overclocking. In addition that card is $80 more and the only current reason you have provided as to why you should buy it over the previously suggested card is that it can overclock better, a speed boost that is still controlled by the silicon lottery to begin with. Not only this but it's a matter of a few frames per second for an $80 price difference.
[editline]30th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=J!NX;43031527]either one of the cards is going to shit on any game so personally I'd go with what is best with SLI as you'll want to SLI some time later
Both cards look like they're very much great and 30$ isn't that much, so SLI or a coin toss :v: If you aren't looking at brand, you're not going to see [I]that[/I] much of a difference.[/QUOTE]
SLI and CrossfireX are no longer all that different. The SLI/CFX scaling is going to be about the same, but honestly SLI and CFX aren't very reliable. You've got some games which work well with them and produce near double framerates, you've got some games that don't and produce microstuttering, and you've got some games that get lower performance with two cards than with one. It's not a very well working technology as of now.
[QUOTE=sa2fan;43031500]I probably won't do much overclocking, like I said. I understand that the ability to do so is even better but I'd probably leave them at default. I might touch the parameters at some point but I'm not expecting a super overclocking.[/QUOTE]
The acx edition should be good then. Just not the super clocked one.
@flanye the reason I recommend the 770 is stability as well as drivers, and overclocking potential. On the 770 7.6ghz is a low overclock. If he gets the regular acx edition, it'd be 30$ more for a better list of features and overclocking , as well as three games.
I've already stated that there is no stability/driver improvement, and you've provided no counterargument (and there isn't a valid one that I'm aware of). I've also provided a counterargument for the points of that "feature list." 600MHz is not a low overclock, although I suppose that's technically a matter of opinion.
The only valid pros are the overclocking potential and games. That's really not worth the extra money if you ask me for someone who isn't going to overclock all that much. Maybe if you want the extra games that come with it, but even then you've got to keep in mind that those game bundles come and go for a lot of graphics cards. The same bundle could be gone the next day and the R9 280X could have one (which is rumored by the way).
Either way it's up to the OP and it isn't a completely obvious choice, but it essentially boils down to:
Better overclocker (if you don't loose the silicon lottery) vs Better performer (bearing in mind that it still can be overclocked, although less so again assuming you don't loose the silicon lottery).
I'm still recommending the better performer considering even when you place the overclocked version head to head the 770 still only wins by a few FPS, and you don't have to have the cons of overclocking to get the better performing card (shortened lifespan, hotter card, the rest of your components will be hotter).
[QUOTE=flayne;43030019]Stable? So the recent driver issues that literally caused some Nvidia cards to fry is considered stable? Both companies have had problems. Take two prime issues: the one I've already mentioned where live drivers caused some cards to fry and numerous crashes in numerous games[/QUOTE]
How long have you been using ATI/AMD cards? Because they've had consistently shit drivers all the way back to their first ever PC graphics cards. There was never a time that I can remember them ever releasing a driver that actually worked properly, and I've been using ATI/AMD GPUs since the Mach series.
The new 13.x branch of the Catalyst drivers are fucking awful. I've been through two HD7970 GHz editions and now an R9 280x that constantly crash due to bad drivers. I even went so far to reinstall Windows and put the cards in 3 different machines to experience the same problems. 13.9 is by far the worst version in the 13 branch. I'm barely limping by on 13.4 and it still has terrible problems.
Besides the crashing issues, 13.9 also doesn't seem to know how to control the fans because it will keep the fan speed at like 23% under heavy load and let the card get up to 90-95C unless you force the fan to go faster to prevent a meltdown.
Unless you're on a budget, go for the GTX770.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;43033162]How long have you been using ATI/AMD cards? Because they've had consistently shit drivers all the way back to their first ever PC graphics cards. There was never a time that I can remember them ever releasing a driver that actually worked properly, and I've been using ATI/AMD GPUs since the Mach series.
The new 13.x branch of the Catalyst drivers are fucking awful. I've been through two HD7970 GHz editions and now an R9 280x that constantly crash due to bad drivers. I even went so far to reinstall Windows and put the cards in 3 different machines to experience the same problems. 13.9 is by far the worst version in the 13 branch. I'm barely limping by on 13.4 and it still has terrible problems.
Besides the crashing issues, 13.9 also doesn't seem to know how to control the fans because it will keep the fan speed at like 23% under heavy load and let the card get up to 90-95C unless you force the fan to go faster to prevent a meltdown.[/QUOTE]
Running a 280x and haven't experienced any drivers crashing.
[QUOTE=Neddy;43038874]Running a 280x and haven't experienced any drivers crashing.[/QUOTE]
You're probably fairly lucky then. My friend actually had his 7970 literally explode, frying his motherboard because of a driver failure. i can't find a picture of it at the minute, but it basically caused the RAM and Core to overheat, a transistor melted on the voltage control, and caused all the capacitors to explode due to that simple driver failure.
However, in my experience i've not seen much like that, from the time i used the 4870, then the 6770 i've still experienced a lot of crazy crashing as well as problems with the cards in general, with a lot more sorted out only after a half year. That's partly why i would recommend nvidia, I've honestly never had a problem with them, starting all the way back from the MX440. (I had two different sets of computer, one gaming, the other workstations for drafting, which i would occasionally play games on during break.) with the 8800gtx, then the 260, and finally most recently the 560ti, which all never had problems, excepting the bug on the 8800gtx that wouldn't kick on the fan till it was stupid hot, and even then (I got it the first week) it was fixed before the next week.
[QUOTE=Neddy;43038874]Running a 280x and haven't experienced any drivers crashing.[/QUOTE]
Apparently im lucky too then as im also running a 280x and had no issues, card has been perfect.
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