Good game that's brought down by awful world design, weirdly bad graphics in some areas and the story as well as the lore isn't really thought out.
There's just way too much of these tiny wrongs in this game, but at the same time it's really fun because it's still got what makes it a Souls game, while losing out on certain small homewer important aspects.
For example, someone pointed out that the lore behind Dark Souls was an idea torn apart in certain places to create a pretty compelling and understandable sense of mystery while still giving you the basics to this idea.
With that thought, I think Dark Souls 2 lore is an idea that has been deliberately woven to be confusing and mysterious, which makes it seem kinda lackluster compared to the old form of storytelling. You're left with little to nothing to find out besides this, and speculation ( half of the fun when you look at DaS lore ) is dead when you got so little to work with.
Plus the combat difficulty is done mostly through multiple enemies, also making things feel a bit... weak. Why not make a difficult mob instead of making that mob difficult by multiplying its numbers?
One Dragonrider not hard enough? Well, boy, how about TWO. Ecgh.
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;44692062]Good game that's brought down by awful world design, weirdly bad graphics in some areas and the story as well as the lore isn't really thought out.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't call it awful, but it does feel less inspired. Most of the game mechanics are better than DsK1 though.
[QUOTE=Clavus;44692752] Most of the game mechanics are better than DsK1 though.[/QUOTE]
like what exactly
[QUOTE=damnatus;44692865]like what exactly[/QUOTE]
Upgrading and infusing your weapons is now far better, the whole ember and coloured titanite system in DaS was an absolute shambles. Dual-wielding now has both a purpose and is viable. There are more options in terms of weapons and rings (especially now that rings across the board have a lesser effect than DaS). A more functional and fair summoning system (no more dying to a SL1 twink). Strength weapons are now actually viable in PvP.
The list goes on but that's just what I can list off the top of my head.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;44693519]Upgrading and infusing your weapons is now far better, the whole ember and coloured titanite system in DaS was an absolute shambles. Dual-wielding now has both a purpose and is viable. There are more options in terms of weapons and rings (especially now that rings across the board have a lesser effect than DaS). A more functional and fair summoning system (no more dying to a SL1 twink). Strength weapons are now actually viable in PvP.
The list goes on but that's just what I can list off the top of my head.[/QUOTE]
But strength builds in general are less viable due to the destruction of Poise.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;44693628]But strength builds in general are less viable due to the destruction of Poise.[/QUOTE]
yeah but now that dark souls 2 is big on huge numbers of enemies, large strength weapons get pretty good at cleaving a bunch of them at once (though dex weapons like scythes can also do that, the only real strength of strength weapons is greatshields)
[QUOTE=Craigewan;44693628]But strength builds in general are less viable due to the destruction of Poise.[/QUOTE]
Strength builds are godlike compared to dex builds. They halved dex scaling, the weapons do lower base damage, they aren't faster any more, and they're geared toward inflicting bleed (which is shit) and poison (which doesn't affect every enemy).
Is there any reason to use daggers? They seem slow and short distance. Can't find any good use for them.
[QUOTE=Clavus;44692752]Wouldn't call it awful, but it does feel less inspired. Most of the game mechanics are better than DsK1 though.[/QUOTE]
What I meant by awful was how it was thought out compared to Dark Souls I. In Dark Souls 1 you can see everything from correct angles and it actually feels like the correct distance. In Dark Souls 2 the world overlaps and the distance makes no sense
the lore is a bit more obtuse than DS1 but imo it's still got a similar depth to it. we just gotta give it some time and some interesting theories will no doubt crop up
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;44692062]Good game that's brought down by awful world design, weirdly bad graphics in some areas and the story as well as the lore isn't really thought out.[/QUOTE]
Why do people say this
I don't think Dark Souls 2's world design is "awful" at all. Its certainly much weaker than the first game, but its not "bad". Its not as strong. I think the level design overall is very good, just as good if not better than ever before. But the world design - what connects all the levels together and how the whole world is set up, is much weaker than the first game. The best comparison I've heard is that the world design for Dark Souls 1 was like Castlevania, while for Dark Souls 2 its more like Zelda. Both of those games are really fucking good at what they do but intrinsically different.
It's by no means awful design though. And it doesn't bring down the game in a huge way for me. It brings it down some, but by and large not a huge amount.
The story and lore is just as deep as the first game so I don't know where you get that from. Anyone who has looked up the lore videos and looked into the lore beyond a surface level can attest to this. The problem is the game is new, and you have not (nor many people have not) really bothered to investigate the lore beyond that surface level.
The plot of the game however, is not as strong as the first game. I love the general story and the general lore surrounding everyone in DS2 just as much as the first game, but lets be honest - the first game did a better job with the plot, in how you are led by the ear to be the chosen undead with a distinct goal, and it feels like you are actually about to make a huge choice when you first reach the Kiln of the First Flame. It has a sense of cohesion and gravitas to it. Meanwhile the plot in DS2, you just kind of show up because you are expected to be here, and you do the things because you are expected to. And then you suddenly just kind of stumble upon the ending area because thats the last place you go to, and then does it only start to make sense as to why you are doing what you doing, but with much less impact than it should. I think the themes surrounding the plot are very interesting with that plot, but it simply isn't as engaging or purposeful as the plot of the first game. And perhaps it isn't meant to be - it takes place in the same universe. How else could you expect the story to end up considering what happens in the first game?
Was cool and all how you could see everything from anywhere is das 1 but I really like how surreal and weird the levels are in das 2, in das 1 you had castles and bigger castles, gothic churches and the odd cave to mix things up a little, in das 2 you got things like a giant windmill in the middle of a poisonous barren wasteland surrounded by smaller windmills, how cool is that.
It reminds me of demon's souls, which also had really cool environments.
[QUOTE=OHNOES;44697736]Was cool and all how you could see everything from anywhere is das 1 but I really like how surreal and weird the levels are in das 2, in das 1 you had castles and bigger castles, gothic churches and the odd cave to mix things up a little, in das 2 you got things like a giant windmill in the middle of a poisonous barren wasteland surrounded by smaller windmills, how cool is that.
It reminds me of demon's souls, which also had really cool environments.[/QUOTE]
I think honestly what happened, is they intended a demons soul level based system and some higher up said "no it has to be connected just like dark souls 1" and so they had to very quickly and sloppily fit it all together
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;44697857]I think honestly what happened, is they intended a demons soul level based system and some higher up said "no it has to be connected just like dark souls 1" and so they had to very quickly and sloppily fit it all together[/QUOTE]
The only place it was particularly sloppy was between [sp]Earthen Peak and Iron Keep. How the hell does going up a long lift somehow put you in a magma sea, especially as jarring as it made out.[/sp]
[QUOTE=KorJax;44697025]Why do people say this
I don't think Dark Souls 2's world design is "awful" at all. Its certainly much weaker than the first game, but its not "bad". Its not as strong. I think the level design overall is very good, just as good if not better than ever before. [/QUOTE]
I don't understand how a person could say the world design wasn't awful compared to Dark Souls 1.
The two primary paths you can take are to the tower of flame, which I was astounded by, when I found out I could just speed run past every enemy, and get to the boss within about 3 minutes each. The second path being just 3 guys along a riverbank and then a ladder to a church door.
Meanwhile in Dark Souls you had the grave yard, which hates you and clearly displays it's hatred of you. New Londo, which loathes you. And the Undead burg which elegantly introduces a drake by having it slam down on a narrow walkway.
That's just comparing the starting points. Not even mentioning how weird the transition from No mans wharf to the Bastille is. Where it just plops you off the ship with no way to get back, leaving anyone who goes through the area the other way just baffled.
While I liked the story in Dark Souls 1, claiming that you aren't giving the story a fair shake because you haven't watched x number of youtube videos analyzing it is indicitive of bad story telling.
[QUOTE=Smasher 006;44699276]The only place it was particularly sloppy was between [sp]Earthen Peak and Iron Keep. How the hell does going up a long lift somehow put you in a magma sea, especially as jarring as it made out.[/sp][/QUOTE]
I sort of just shrugged that off and put it in my mind as a mental transition. As in like [sp] the elevator is a stand-in developed by the Next Monarch's mind in the sense that the trip from Earthen Peak to Iron Keep was either to boring to remember or was very traumatizing and therefore pushed out of the Next Monarch's head.[/sp] Granted, I'm probably just an idiot who's trying to hard.
I like the levels more than the ones in DaS1, but the way they connect is just stupid.
[sp]Earthen Peak > Iron Keep could easily be fixed by adding a transition like Wharf > Bastille.[/sp]
I don't get peoples issue with that level transition. First of all time is supposed to be effed up anyway, as it has been in ALL Souls games. Second of all, you have just spent two levels walking through a giant windmill and into a mountain. The elevator obviously takes you up to the middle of the mountain, in a caldera at the peak, you wouldn't be able to see the keep because it's a lava filled crater IN the mountain, that's how they work.
If you find that unbelievable, think that in the fracture of time you were in while in Harvest Valley and Earthen Peak may be after, or before it was built in the first place, but when you ascend after beating Mytha you are in a different one. The Souls games have always been like that. The world connection is just fine, I think people are just looking for a smart sounding reason they don't have to explain to criticize the newest popular game that people like a lot.
[QUOTE=TheCombine;44700796]I like the levels more than the ones in DaS1, but the way they connect is just stupid.
[sp]Earthen Peak > Iron Keep could easily be fixed by adding a transition like Wharf > Bastille.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]The transition isn't completely stupid, behind Earthen Peak the mountains have a glow to them that implies that there's lava there, however they look far too far away from the fort itself to be connected. Plus I got really miffed when once again they had a huge tower I didn't get to look out from the top.[/sp]
[QUOTE=MrHeadHopper;44692107]There's just way too much of these tiny wrongs in this game, but at the same time it's really fun because it's still got what makes it a Souls game, while losing out on certain small homewer important aspects.
For example, someone pointed out that the lore behind Dark Souls was an idea torn apart in certain places to create a pretty compelling and understandable sense of mystery while still giving you the basics to this idea.
With that thought, I think Dark Souls 2 lore is an idea that has been deliberately woven to be confusing and mysterious, which makes it seem kinda lackluster compared to the old form of storytelling. You're left with little to nothing to find out besides this, and speculation ( half of the fun when you look at DaS lore ) is dead when you got so little to work with.
Plus the combat difficulty is done mostly through multiple enemies, also making things feel a bit... weak. Why not make a difficult mob instead of making that mob difficult by multiplying its numbers?
One Dragonrider not hard enough? Well, boy, how about TWO. Ecgh.[/QUOTE]
I somewhat agree with this but doesn't prevent me from really enjoying the game. There are also many nifty and new improvements that made the game better. Every Souls game has its own strengths and weaknesses.
Dark Souls is a masterpiece in a lot of ways and it's really hard to top that. Things like the locations, repeating boss battles, lore and level design are a bit dissapointing but nevertheless it's really amazing. I just preferred the level design and lore of Dark Souls 1.
[QUOTE=junker154;44702214]I somewhat agree with this but doesn't prevent me from really enjoying the game. There are also many nifty and new improvements that made the game better. Every Souls game has its own strengths and weaknesses.
Dark Souls is a masterpiece in a lot of ways and it's really hard to top that. Things like the locations, repeating boss battles, lore and level design are a bit dissapointing but nevertheless it's really amazing. I just preferred the level design and lore of Dark Souls 1.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say Dark Souls is a master piece just a really good game. Look at Lost Izzy and pretty much everything after Anor Londo
The thing I didn't like was the false advertising From and Bandai did. It's not about the "subject is able to change until final release" but more about the sudden change from the Networkbeta that ran with the great lighting system in January and then it's completely taken out in March. Without any announcement. They even continued to use those good looking screenshots on the box art of the game, even though the game looks nothing like it as the lighting system and some other effects aren't in anymore.
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;44715714]I wouldn't say Dark Souls is a master piece just a really good game. Look at Lost Izzy and pretty much everything after Anor Londo[/QUOTE]
I meant from a personal point of view, I should have added that. It means a lot to me.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.