I'd be okay with a No Used Games Sales within a certain window of time from the game's launch. I think that's a fair compromise. But this We Want to control what you do with what you buy at all times shit has to stop
restricting trade-ins/resells is dumb
I hope the EU bans the Xbox One from doing this in Europe, sick of this anti-consumer bullshit.
Microsoft really are digging themselves a big hole here. I actually believe Sony (or some other large company) has paid them a very, very large sum of money to do this. Or Microsoft has something completely unexpected planned. No company would do this of their own accord
Don't they know what the people actually want? I mean just take a quick look on some site about that subject and you see that the people don't want to deal with that. Either Microsoft has some asshole telling the team what to do even if it will kill them or they just don't know where they have to look for information.
Sounds like both publishers and manufacturers want to see used games gone, but nobody wants to throw the first stone - especially after these initial reactions.
Then again, the people in uproar about this matter only have so much overlap with the XBone's frat boy target demographic, so who knows if Microsoft really gives a toss beyond initial damage control pro forma.
[QUOTE=danharibo;40939888]I hope the EU bans the Xbox One from doing this in Europe, sick of this anti-consumer bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Seeing how they're already angry at Steam because of these reasons, who knows.
[editline]7th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Chaoss86;40940054]Microsoft really are digging themselves a big hole here. I actually believe Sony (or some other large company) has paid them a very, very large sum of money to do this. Or Microsoft has something completely unexpected planned. No company would do this of their own accord[/QUOTE]
Sony didn't have the same rumors clinging around their legs as Microsoft, so they got away with their conference not mentioning this kinda stuff at all, whereas Microsoft's silence ended in a PR nightmare.
We don't actually know about Sony's plans, tho they might take this opportunity to distinguish themselves from the XBOX.
Now, i cant think of many console games that require me to accept an eula, and I just checked a bunch of my console game's manuals for them, and the only one I saw that had an eula were the ones from rockstar.
[QUOTE=danharibo;40939888]I hope the EU bans the Xbox One from doing this in Europe, sick of this anti-consumer bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Yeah this whole fiasco is a big ugly stain on consumer rights. I still can't believe that this could be a thing that people are actually considering.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;40941677]Yeah this whole fiasco is a big ugly stain on consumer rights. I still can't believe that this could be a thing that people are actually considering.[/QUOTE]
I literally have no problem at all with this. We all know a lot of people will buy Xbox one and I can absolutely see myself buying it.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;40940243]
Seeing how they're already angry at Steam because of these reasons, who knows.
[/QUOTE]
And with good reason.
[QUOTE=SweFox*;40941747]I literally have no problem at all with this. We all know a lot of people will buy Xbox one and I can absolutely see myself buying it.[/QUOTE]
This is going to sound overdramatic, but why are you so willing to just throw away your consumer rights like that? The console is a huge step backwards, and pretty much every "feature" is actually a restriction.
Are we really just going to accept that so we can get our hands on the next Halo?
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;40941870]This is going to sound overdramatic, but why are you so willing to just throw away your consumer rights like that? The console is a huge step backwards, and pretty much every "feature" is actually a restriction.
Are we really just going to accept that so we can get our hands on the next Halo?[/QUOTE]
I guess you could see it that way but I don't really do that because I have no problems with this new policy. I don't agree with throwing around, trading in used games so that may has some impact on it.
The connect once every 24 hours is totally fine by me. I want a internet connected future anyway. Making it so publisher get money for each copy is someone good in my opinion.
[QUOTE=danharibo;40939888]I hope the EU bans the Xbox One from doing this in Europe, sick of this anti-consumer bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Except it's not the Xbox doing this. Microsoft actually seem to have aproached this very carefully from a legal standpoint. They merely have a framework in place that publishers can use if they want to. But don't force them to do it nor is it their policy.
They can essentially fold their hands and tell you that it's not their problems. Basically think of it similar to steamworks multiplayer or GFWL. Before those systems game makers and publishers had to run their own multiplayer and authentication methods. After those methods they could use those.
Similarly publishers have been using in house methods to limit sales of games as well - usually trough online passes and the like. Now they can use an inbuilt system.
[QUOTE=SweFox*;40941892] Making it so publisher get money for each copy is someone good in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I'll agree to disagree on the other points, but it's this that bothers me about this system. It's a system designed for the benefit of the publishers, not the benefit of the consumers, and it's alienating a lot of people because of it.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;40941924]I'll agree to disagree on the other points, but it's this that bothers me about this system. It's a system designed for the benefit of the publishers, not the benefit of the consumers, and it's alienating a lot of people because of it.[/QUOTE]
Which I think is good. I would never buy from gamestop etc but only buy games digitally or online.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;40941924]I'll agree to disagree on the other points, but it's this that bothers me about this system. It's a system designed for the benefit of the publishers, not the benefit of the consumers, and it's alienating a lot of people because of it.[/QUOTE]
Well take it this way - the benefit for the consumer is generally not really high in consideration for a profit driven enterprise. Consumers are not a segment of the market you terribly care about in terms of them profiting. They are the segment of the market which you want to spend money on your products.
Publishers are not nonprofits.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;40941956]Well take it this way - the benefit for the consumer is generally not really high in consideration for a profit driven enterprise. Consumers are not a segment of the market you terribly care about in terms of them profiting. They are the segment of the market which you want to spend money on your products.
Publishers are not nonprofits.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but who are the people that give you money? The consumers. It's in your best business interest to treat them well because then they'll come back and spend money on your product. Hell, that's pretty much what the Steam Sales are built on, and those manage to be both pro-publisher AND pro-consumer.
So far, the Xbox One is only pro-publisher, and in my opinion that's wrong to the point that I pretty much have a moral opposition to the system.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;40941988]Yeah, but who are the people that give you money? The consumers. It's in your best business interest to treat them well because then they'll come back and spend money on your product. Hell, that's pretty much what the Steam Sales are built on, and those manage to be both pro-publisher AND pro-consumer.
So far, the Xbox One is only pro-publisher, and in my opinion that's wrong to the point that I pretty much have a moral opposition to the system.[/QUOTE]
Sure - but as a publisher you will want to direct the consumers to a certain course of action. Take it this way - consider how many people hated always on, but suddenly got very defensive about it in Diablo 3. Or how pc gamers have slowly stopped accepting former standard features as steam showed up.
Or the presence of day one dlcs. Generally speaking the important part is how many of the consumers are going to get the product anyway. It's possible that there's a vocal minority that is going against the system, but as far as many consumers go it will remain an attractive one.
I'm not a console gamer since the PSx so it's not really important to me in a sense. But as it stands, I figure that the console will remain attractive enough to most consumers.
Alright, well let's look at this another way. Putting aside whatever games will show for the system, what benefit do these features have?
- How does a 24-hour or 1-hour check-in benefit the consumer?
- How does locking a game "license" (remember you don't own the disc now, just the license to play) to an account benefit the consumer?
- How does having the Kinect being plugged in and operational at all times benefit the consumer? If something happened to it, you've got a brick.
- How does "allowing" the trade-in of used games at "participating retailers" benefit the consumer? It certainly doesn't sound good for mom&pop stores.
- How is it beneficial to be unable to share your game with your friends? You can transfer the license (once), but letting friends borrow your games is effectively dead and renting games is COMPLETELY dead.
- How is the killing of game "ownership" beneficial to the consumer?
- What happens in 15 years when Microsoft likely kills the authentication servers for the Xbox One? That's an entire generation of gaming (well, the Xbox side), permanently gone, and I'm not sure I trust Microsoft to suddenly just deactivate the DRM to let you keep playing.
From where I'm standing, every single one of those is a dramatic step backwards.
- How does a 24-hour or 1-hour check-in benefit the consumer?
[B]Who said it's for the consumer?[/B]
- How does locking a game "license" (remember you don't own the disc now, just the license to play) to an account benefit the consumer?
[B]Buying a license isn't really anything new, is it?[/B]
- How does having the Kinect being plugged in and operational at all times benefit the consumer? If something happened to it, you've got a brick.
[B]No opinion[/B]
- How does "allowing" the trade-in of used games at "participating retailers" benefit the consumer? It certainly doesn't sound good for mom&pop stores.
[B]Who said it's for the consumer?[/B]
- How is it beneficial to be unable to share your game with your friends? You can transfer the license (once), but letting friends borrow your games is effectively dead and renting games is COMPLETELY dead.
[B]Who said it's for the consumer?[/B]
- How is the killing of game "ownership" beneficial to the consumer?
[B]Who said it's for the consumer?[/B]
- What happens in 15 years when Microsoft likely kills the authentication servers for the Xbox One? That's an entire generation of gaming (well, the Xbox side), permanently gone, and I'm not sure I trust Microsoft to suddenly just deactivate the DRM to let you keep playing.
[B]15 years is a long time, why care about that stuff right now?[/B]
[editline]8th June 2013[/editline]
In other words, why wouldn't MS want to please publishers like this and limit borrowing of games and killing off gamestop? I think it's great.
[QUOTE=SweFox*;40942352]Who said the the limitation of borrow games, trading in ever were going to benefit the consumer in any way?
Why wouldn't MS want to please publishers like this. I think it's great.[/QUOTE]
Y'know, I like to think I'm pretty good about keeping a level head but I'm sorry, have you completely lost your mind? You're basically saying that it's okay for Microsoft and the game publishers to fuck you and every consumer over in whatever way they so please just so long as it means they make more money.
I'm literally sitting here, baffled.
[editline]8th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=SweFox*;40942352]
In other words, why wouldn't MS want to please publishers like this and limit borrowing of games and killing off gamestop? I think it's great.[/QUOTE]
Because [B]FUCK[/B] the publisher. They're supposed to answer to us, not the other way around.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;40942399]Y'know, I like to think I'm pretty good about keeping a level head but I'm sorry, have you completely lost your mind? You're basically saying that it's okay for Microsoft and the game publishers to fuck you and every consumer over in whatever way they so please just so long as it means they make more money.
I'm literally sitting here, baffled.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I think it's good that publisher gets the money instead of it going to gamestop etc.
[editline]8th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;40942399]Because [B]FUCK[/B] the publisher. They're supposed to answer to us, not the other way around.[/QUOTE]
No? Stop being so entitled.
[QUOTE=SweFox*;40942352]- How does a 24-hour or 1-hour check-in benefit the consumer?
[B]Who said it's for the consumer?[/B]
- How does locking a game "license" (remember you don't own the disc now, just the license to play) to an account benefit the consumer?
[B]Buying a license isn't really anything new, is it?[/B]
- How does having the Kinect being plugged in and operational at all times benefit the consumer? If something happened to it, you've got a brick.
[B]No opinion[/B]
- How does "allowing" the trade-in of used games at "participating retailers" benefit the consumer? It certainly doesn't sound good for mom&pop stores.
[B]Who said it's for the consumer?[/B]
- How is it beneficial to be unable to share your game with your friends? You can transfer the license (once), but letting friends borrow your games is effectively dead and renting games is COMPLETELY dead.
[B]Who said it's for the consumer?[/B]
- How is the killing of game "ownership" beneficial to the consumer?
[B]Who said it's for the consumer?[/B]
- What happens in 15 years when Microsoft likely kills the authentication servers for the Xbox One? That's an entire generation of gaming (well, the Xbox side), permanently gone, and I'm not sure I trust Microsoft to suddenly just deactivate the DRM to let you keep playing.
[B]15 years is a long time, why care about that stuff right now?[/B]
[editline]8th June 2013[/editline]
In other words, why wouldn't MS want to please publishers like this and limit borrowing of games and killing off gamestop? I think it's great.[/QUOTE]
You know, you make a good point; if Microsoft wants to spend time and money implementing features that, at best, do nothing for the customer, then that's their option. Just as it's my option not to support such practices by not buying an Xbox One.
Also, if Microsoft thinks publishers are going to continue to support them if the boat starts sinking, I think they are in for a rude surprise.
I wonder if the majority holding shareholders of Microsoft had a say in this.
[QUOTE=SweFox*;40942420]Yes, I think it's good that publisher gets the money instead of it going to gamestop etc.
[editline]8th June 2013[/editline]
No? Stop being so entitled.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SweFox*;40942420]Yes, I think it's good that publisher gets the money instead of it going to gamestop etc.
[editline]8th June 2013[/editline]
No? Stop being so entitled.[/QUOTE]
Used games are a scapegoat and they always have been. This industry has gotten along just fine for the past 30 years with used games and systems being a part of it, and they STILL manage to break profit records. Once used games are gone they'll look for something else to blame. Anything other than themselves.
And if you think it's entitlement to want to keep my rights as a consumer and to want a quality product then I think we've got a problem. As always, it comes down to voting with your wallet. It's my money and if they don't make something that's worth spending money on then I won't buy it. If I were to support the Xbox One, that sends Microsoft a message that I think what they're doing is okay, and they'll continue to push it. Then, other companies will follow suit and more and more consumer rights will disappear, and that won't end well for anyone.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;40942487]Also, if Microsoft thinks publishers are going to continue to support them if the boat starts sinking, I think they are in for a rude surprise.[/QUOTE]
"Man why did we go with the Xbone.. Look at how everyone is buying PS4s and titles for them left and right and the One is just gathering dust. Even the Wii U is seeing more action.. Maybe we should do something about that.."
I think that's how it will play out in a few years :v:
[QUOTE=SweFox*;40941892]I guess you could see it that way but I don't really do that because I have no problems with this new policy. I don't agree with throwing around, trading in used games so that may has some impact on it.
The connect once every 24 hours is totally fine by me. I want a internet connected future anyway. Making it so publisher get money for each copy is someone good in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Publishers are greedy whores anyway, the developers deserve the money.
[QUOTE=SweFox*;40942420]No? Stop being so entitled.[/QUOTE]
What's so entitled about wanting a company to do what their customers want instead of whatever it takes to squeeze a bit more money out of something?
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;40942513]Used games are a scapegoat and they always have been. This industry has gotten along just fine for the past 30 years with used games and systems being a part of it, and they STILL manage to break profit records. Once used games are gone they'll look for something else to blame. Anything other than themselves.
And if you think it's entitlement to want to keep my rights as a consumer and to want a quality product then I think we've got a problem. As always, it comes down to voting with your wallet. It's my money and if they don't make something that's worth spending money on then I won't buy it. If I were to support the Xbox One, that sends Microsoft a message that I think what they're doing is okay, and they'll continue to push it. Then, other companies will follow suit and more and more consumer rights will disappear, and that won't end well for anyone.[/QUOTE]
I think you're being entitled thinking you can make demands etc. I think the whole second hand market is stupid and I simply agree with MS new policy.
Imagine if consumers could make demands left to right, I think a lot of games would have turned out pretty shitty.
[editline]8th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=DaMastez;40942535]What's so entitled about wanting a company to do what their customers want instead of whatever it takes to squeeze a bit more money out of something?[/QUOTE]
Because they aren't making the game for "you".
[editline]8th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Legolas;40942521]"Man why did we go with the Xbone.. Look at how everyone is buying PS4s and titles for them left and right and the One is just gathering dust. Even the Wii U is seeing more action.. Maybe we should do something about that.."
I think that's how it will play out in a few years :v:[/QUOTE]
Sincerely doubt that.
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