I got lost for about 20 minutes at one point because the map they provided didn't tell you where the level transitions were.
[editline]19th April 2014[/editline]
Even the really crude maps of older Thief games were more helpful because it told you a rough estimation of where the transitions were.
The screenshots I've seen make this game look so good but I keep hearing terrible things about it. Is it really that fucking bad?
[QUOTE=Mr.Cookie;44589988]The screenshots I've seen make this game look so good but I keep hearing terrible things about it. Is it really that fucking bad?[/QUOTE]
Its a more of a streamlined Theif.
[QUOTE=Mr.Cookie;44589988]The screenshots I've seen make this game look so good but I keep hearing terrible things about it. Is it really that fucking bad?[/QUOTE]
It doesn't seem to be terrible, just so troubled and relatively uninventive enough that it doesn't have much reason to go out and buy it, yet not much reason to significantly snub it either (unless you're a diehard series fan offended by the changes).
[QUOTE=Mr.Cookie;44589988]The screenshots I've seen make this game look so good but I keep hearing terrible things about it. Is it really that fucking bad?[/QUOTE]
It's not "fucking bad" but it isn't fantastic.
It's a 6.5/10 or 7/10 for me
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;44590001]Its a more of a streamlined Theif.[/QUOTE]
They tried to get it look and feel like Dishonoured?
[QUOTE=Careld;44590091]They tried to get it look and feel like Dishonoured?[/QUOTE]
It didn't look or feel anything like Dishonored.
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;44590001]Its a more of a streamlined Theif.[/QUOTE]
A streamlined Thief would have very fluid if bare-bones core gameplay. Thief 4's design is just messy and unfocused in my opinion, sometimes even schizophrenic.
Like, they give you rope arrows and multipath that would make for smooth level navigation on the one hand, but on the other it's all locked down to contextual "climb here, shoot rope arrow here" without jumping or the ability to move objects (like crates) and climb over them organically, which especially breaks pacing and immersion during chases.
Effort has been put into creating characters creating a social web around Garret, but he swings back between "don't care" and vague, empty phrases that I personally interpret as the writers having no idea what fans saw in the old Garrett.
There's parts where you can see they really tried to put emphasis on making stealing feel very rewarding and stealth as well... but the game also wants to reward you for playing it every way you want to, Deus Ex style. So at times it's even questionable if Thief wants to be a proper stealth game, which in my opinion drives it closer to the uncomfortable Dishonored comparisons than its aesthetics/"plagued city" background.
I'd actually have preferred a streamlined Thief that just does stealth, but does stealth really well and brings something new to the genre. Thief 1 was hesitant to go full on stealth itself, which is why there were those annoying monster sections, and generally people agree Thief 2 is better exactly because it focused much more on the stealth.
That's the kinda streamlining I could have gotten behind. but Thief 4 is just a pretty-looking mess in my humble opinion.
I've been playing through the original Thief recently, and I'm enjoying it a fair bit. Probably a lot better than Thi4f, even if The Dark Project looks VERY polygonal, plus the City in original Thief seems to have a bit more character than the Thi4f City. For one thing, I heard that the Hammerites and Pagans aren't even in Thi4f, instead with these blander less colourful factions put in to represent the conflict between order and chaos.
[QUOTE=redBadger;44590101]It didn't look or feel anything like Dishonored.[/QUOTE]
Felt just like dishonoured to me. Played it for a few hours at a friends and didn't enjoy it like I enjoyed the originals. Felt so dull and boring. Spent half of the time messing about because I didn't have a clue where to go half the time.
[QUOTE=ironman17;44590436]I've been playing through the original Thief recently, and I'm enjoying it a fair bit. Probably a lot better than Thi4f, even if The Dark Project looks VERY polygonal, plus the City in original Thief seems to have a bit more character than the Thi4f City. For one thing, I heard that the Hammerites and Pagans aren't even in Thi4f, instead with these blander less colourful factions put in to represent the conflict between order and chaos.[/QUOTE]Yep. You've really just got the city guards and like some generic revolutionary group. And neither group is exceptionally well developed.
I think there are very slight, passing references to the Hammerites and the Pagans at a couple of points in the game, but they're so bad that it honestly could just be some context-less dialog.
And people will say "No, not at all like Dishonored." but it borrows heavily from Dishonored. It takes countless plot points from Dishonored, it tries to go about its story telling in the same way as Dishonored, the environments are heavily reminiscent of Dishonored, Garret handles like Corvo, the characters are so much like those of Dishonored.
[editline]19th April 2014[/editline]
Though I think the best point in the game for me was during the Tutorial "flee through the city" mission. I jumped out some house window and landed in a street below and was greeted with the sound of some weird EBM track and all I could think was "I was not aware medieval/steampunk cities held regular raves." For some reason that weird ass, out of place EBM track just cracked me up and I actually had to stop for a few minutes to recover because it made me laugh so much.
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;44590001]Its a more of a streamlined Theif.[/QUOTE]
It holds your creepy dangly hand the entire game and it's not a Thief game.
If you want a modern Thief go with Dishonored. That game feels more fluid and gives you options for stealth, combat and anything between. Plus it has some beautiful and colorful levels. It's a bit easy though.
Everything said in the article I agree with. I'm not sure if they actually fixed the audio issues (I think there was a patch addressing some of them) but if not add poor audio mixing. They also advertised the game as "pick your style" deal but truth is combat and lethal approach is very expensive and not exactly easy. That fact I take as a good news for stealth enthusiasts. Stealth itself is also a bit harder than Dishonored because you can't teleport (the swoop ability is neat but has it's weaknesses) and although you have Focus (can be disabled) it doesn't allow you to see through walls like the Dark Vision in Dishonored. Still, all the limitations take a lot of enjoyment out of it and you feel like on a roller coaster.
There are bits and pieces worth experiencing and the game looks very nice but get it for lower price.
Dishonored was garbage, I wouldn't recommend that game either.
[QUOTE=Marden;44590922]If you want a modern Thief go with Dishonored. That game feels more fluid and gives you options for stealth, combat and anything between. Plus it has some beautiful and colorful levels. It's a bit easy though.
Everything said in the article I agree with. I'm not sure if they actually fixed the audio issues (I think there was a patch addressing some of them) but if not add poor audio mixing. They also advertised the game as "pick your style" deal but truth is combat and lethal approach is very expensive and not exactly easy. That fact I take as a good news for stealth enthusiasts. Stealth itself is also a bit harder than Dishonored because you can't teleport (the swoop ability is neat but has it's weaknesses) and although you have Focus (can be disabled) it doesn't allow you to see through walls like the Dark Vision in Dishonored. Still, all the limitations take a lot of enjoyment out of it and you feel like on a roller coaster.
There are bits and pieces worth experiencing and the game looks very nice but get it for lower price.[/QUOTE]
More specifically, go with the DLC campaign.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;44592028]Dishonored was garbage, I wouldn't recommend that game either.[/QUOTE]
Weird how a lot of thief fans I know prefer Dishonored over Thief 4. Dishonored is the easiest game I've played in my life, and it's just as handholdy as thief 4. I've never had a "Fuck, I have to think about what I have to do next" moment in Dishonored, but I have in Thief 4.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44593352]I've never had a "Fuck, I have to think about what I have to do next" moment in Dishonored, but I have in Thief 4.[/QUOTE]
That's because you left all of the UI help elements on
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44593352]Weird how a lot of thief fans I know prefer Dishonored over Thief 4. Dishonored is the easiest game I've played in my life, and it's just as handholdy as thief 4. I've never had a "Fuck, I have to think about what I have to do next" moment in Dishonored, but I have in Thief 4.[/QUOTE]
That's my biggest complaint with Dishonored. I never had to upgrade at any point and I sleepwalked through the game with non-lethal on the hardest difficulty. I think I had something like a dozen unspent skill points. I was trying to 100% then I realized that the abilities didn't do anything so I just played the game normally and beat it in a couple of afternoons.
It had such a wonderful art direction and such an interesting universe and they squandered it on a rather uninteresting story and what I honestly think was the easiest and least satisfying stealth game I have ever played. And I came into that game with such high expectations, too, I really wanted to be blown away.
I'm not saying that Thief 4 was better, it was a pretty bad game for different reasons. But at least Thief 4 challenged me a bit.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44593352]Weird how a lot of thief fans I know prefer Dishonored over Thief 4. Dishonored is the easiest game I've played in my life, and it's just as handholdy as thief 4. I've never had a "Fuck, I have to think about what I have to do next" moment in Dishonored, but I have in Thief 4.[/QUOTE]
Dishonored kept the important "here's your level, objectives and tools, go ham" from Thief and very smooth level maneuvering, but its gameplay isn't very stealth-focused in my opinion (in fact, all the fun toys are inside the "use these and you'll get the crappy ending" box and wallhack + blink made stealth lose a lot of tension and necessity to plan your heist imo) and I found it severely lacking in atmosphere, especially the dialogue.
The dialogue is also very straight to the point and streamlined, which made the people feel more like quest vending machines than actual people to me. In Thief Garrett could crack a good line or overhear some stupid drunken guards, but in Dishonored it all felt dead to me, and not in the way excusable by the general doom & gloom spread by the plague. Even at parties people were talking and acting like cardboard cutouts with about the same variety of emotions (unless they were the assassination target that gets a fancy death animation).
The best parts about Dishonored's atmosphere were those not actually ingame. The mysteriousness of faraway exotic places and ritual was IMO much more exciting than seeing a hag casually turn into rats - partly because nobody ingame cared too much either I guess.
Ironically, Garrett trying extremely hard not to give a toss about anything but his next rent payment made me all the more interested in both him and the world.
[QUOTE=Virtanen;44594397]That's because you left all of the UI help elements on[/QUOTE]
But if you remove those it makes some objectives impossible to find.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;44592028]Dishonored was garbage, I wouldn't recommend that game either.[/QUOTE]
Dishonored was fantastic. One of my favourite games of that year. Just too easy.
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