[QUOTE]“Silences are a problem when the character can kill you solo - it removes response,”[/QUOTE]
And taunts, stuns and knock-ups don't?
You can do more while silenced than stunned so I'm not sure I get that whole "Response" thing.
It's nice to see that Riot hasn't changed one bit when it comes to balance.
you know when nerfs have to be JUSTIFIED by the LEAD DESIGNER that they're obviously do something incredibly wrong
I heard League has no counter-crow-control items (like DOTA2's BKB/Linken's/diff, kinda), is that true? Must be difficult to balance CC spells without such things.
they have an item that works like linkens if i'm not mistaken.
The only item I can think off the top of my head is Banshee's Veil, that's probably the only CC counter item.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;44612350]I heard League has no counter-crow-control items (like DOTA2's BKB/Linken's/diff, kinda), is that true? Must be difficult to balance CC spells without such things.[/QUOTE]
I believe there's an item or two that you can use at any time to remove debuffs, as wel as a summoner spell that does this.
[QUOTE=Pelican;44612314]you know when nerfs have to be JUSTIFIED by the LEAD DESIGNER that they're obviously do something incredibly wrong[/QUOTE]
Wait, so a designer of a game is not allowed to talk about the design of the game?
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;44612350]I heard League has no counter-crow-control items (like DOTA2's BKB/Linken's/diff, kinda), is that true? Must be difficult to balance CC spells without such things.[/QUOTE]
Nothing like BKB where you're completely immune, but there's the summoner spell Cleanse and the item Quicksilver Sash which remove CC and (most) debuffs after the fact. Some champions also have abilities which give them CC immunity. League also has a general stat called tenacity which lowers the duration of most CC effects (I think only knock up and suppression are unaffected by tenacity).
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;44612350]I heard League has no counter-crow-control items (like DOTA2's BKB/Linken's/diff, kinda), is that true? Must be difficult to balance CC spells without such things.[/QUOTE]
Item-wise, there's a defensive item where a shield will appear on your character, negating one ability along with any CC effect it may have, which comes back up every minute or so. There's also an item that you can use to disable any CC effect on you and another item which allows you to be immune to any damage/CC, at the cost of being immobile for 1.5 seconds, if you use it before any CC spell triggers on you.
[QUOTE=Pelican;44612314]you know when nerfs have to be JUSTIFIED by the LEAD DESIGNER that they're obviously do something incredibly wrong[/QUOTE]
Isn't that his job?
[QUOTE=The Stills;44612406]Nothing like BKB where you're completely immune, but there's the summoner spell Cleanse and the item Quicksilver Sash which remove CC and (most) debuffs after the fact. Some champions also have abilities which give them CC immunity. League also has a general stat called tenacity which lowers the duration of most CC effects (I think only knock up and suppression are unaffected by tenacity).[/QUOTE]
Even BKB is counterbalanced by having some spells penetrate it.
[QUOTE=Pelican;44612314]you know when nerfs have to be JUSTIFIED by the LEAD DESIGNER that they're obviously do something incredibly wrong[/QUOTE]
Talking about design choices is suddenly a bad thing.
Dangit Chickens!
[QUOTE=The Stills;44612406]Wait, so a designer of a game is not allowed to talk about the design of the game?
[/QUOTE]
talk about it sure, there's nothing wrong with it. but my main thing is that when you make a nerf, you shouldnt need to justify it - the community/players should be like "yeah that was a bit OP" or "i can see why it was nerfed"
when the lead designer has to justify a nerf then it implies that it was an unwarrented nerf
The best part about Morello, the lead designer, is that he's shit at the game(silver elo) and doesn't know what he's talking about most of the time.
For gold elo you just need to know the meta and how the game works. Building, farming, pushing, dragon time, baron time, engaging, zoning, ganking and that kind of stuff.
You have to be really ignorant to be in silver or bronze, I really don't know how this guy is a LEAD designer. Considering he's in Riot from the start, it might be something like bros before jobs or he's just one of the main guys considering the LEAD part.
Every other Riot employee that balances the game is at least Platinum.
[QUOTE=Blueplastic;44612511]The best part about Morello, the lead designer, is that he's shit at the game(silver elo) and doesn't know what he's talking about most of the time.
For gold elo you just need to know the meta and how the game works. Building, farming, pushing, dragon time, baron time, engaging, zoning, ganking and that kind of stuff.
You have to be really ignorant to be in silver or bronze, I really don't know how this guy is a LEAD designer. Considering he's in Riot from the start, it might be something like bros before jobs or he's just one of the main guys considering the LEAD part.
Every other Riot employee that balances the game is at least Platinum.[/QUOTE]
If you balance a game for just comp play then the pub scene will take a hit, and vice versa, it's hard to balance a game for it to be fun for casualish play and competitive for professional play.
[sp]Maybe Morello is there for pleb-tier balance input.[/sp]
Every balance change from Riot since the game launch has been a band-aid to solve an issue or another.
Nowadays they're placing band-aids on their band-aids.
[QUOTE=Chickens!;44612529]If you balance a game for just comp play then the pub scene will take a hit, and vice versa, it's hard to balance a game for it to be fun for casualish play and competitive for professional play.
[sp]Maybe Morello is there for pleb-tier balance input.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Games should always be balanced to the comp play. Look at fighters, arena shooters, RTS and other competitive games. It works for them and it works for Dota, so it would work for LoL.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;44612854]Games should always be balanced to the comp play. Look at fighters, arena shooters, RTS and other competitive games. It works for them and it works for Dota, so it would work for LoL.[/QUOTE]
Dota and LoL are different games and what "should" work for one doesn't mean it would work for another.
Dota for example has heroes of varying skill ceilings, you rarely see Viper in comp play because there's not much to him professionally, but as a low bracket hero he can be quite enjoyable and effective.
It's been too long since I played LoL to make a similar observation there, but no matter how big the comp scene is on any game, most of the money comes from the masses playing it more casually (LoL skins and Dota items)
[QUOTE=Chickens!;44612865]Dota for example has heroes of varying skill ceilings, you rarely see Viper in comp play because there's not much to him professionally, but as a low bracket hero he can be quite enjoyable and effective.
It's been too long since I played LoL to make a similar observation there, but no matter how big the comp scene is on any game, most of the money comes from the masses playing it more casually (LoL skins and Dota items)[/QUOTE]
He's actually been occasionally picked as a lane crusher with an early Mek, similar to OD before the nerfs. In fact, this patch has brought a lot of simplistic pub stompers like Drow and Sniper into the competitive scene, complete with typical pub items like Mask of Madness (tho right now it's more about rat).
If a hero isn't picked it's generally either because they're too RNG-dependant (PA, Ogre, to some degree CK and Kunkka) or just don't fit into the meta (come online too late or are too weak to early support aggression). I don't think any are picked because they're "too low skill" for pros.
But otherwise I agree with you, a DOTA2 solution has no guarantee to work for LOL. And I'm not even sure if DOTA2 is entirely balanced for comp play. Huskar and Spirit Breaker for example got nerfed into the ground because they were annoying pub stompers, not because they dominated the competitive scene.
I think DOTA2's most well-received changes from the last two patches (gold changes, mana-less blink) have enhanced both comp and pub play.
I can't believe someone as dumb as Morello is [I]still[/I] the lead designer of LoL.
Even if I weren't biased, I bet even a large amount of LoL players agree with me that this guy who has admitted in the past that he is not good at the game (and said mountains upon mountains of bullshit in the past) being the head of the damn project is not healthy for it.
They should boot his sorry ass out and make Xypherous the lead designer.
DotA2 fanboys sure do love their ad hominem huh, instead of actually talking about the game, let's talk about how shit morello is, like he is in charge of every change in the game
haven't played league for months but you guys never change
league has always been a revolving door of bad and good changes however in the first 3 seasons the game has generally been more balanced
if there was an award for more insecure fanbase, I'd give the award to you guys
stay classy and keep those buzzwords flowing
[QUOTE=ashxu;44614252]DotA2 fanboys sure do love their ad hominem huh, instead of actually talking about the game, let's talk about how shit morello is, like he is in charge of every change in the game
haven't played league for months but you guys never change
league has always been a revolving door of bad and good changes however in the first 3 seasons the game has generally been more balanced
if there was an award for more insecure fanbase, I'd give the award to you guys
stay classy and keep those buzzwords flowing[/QUOTE]
Okay?
[editline]22nd April 2014[/editline]
Looked like a sensible discussion to me.
[QUOTE=ashxu;44614252]DotA2 fanboys sure do love their ad hominem huh, instead of actually talking about the game, let's talk about how shit morello is, like he is in charge of every change in the game
haven't played league for months but you guys never change
league has always been a revolving door of bad and good changes however in the first 3 seasons the game has generally been more balanced
if there was an award for more insecure fanbase, I'd give the award to you guys
stay classy and keep those buzzwords flowing[/QUOTE]
And as always you come in defense of whatever aspect of the game that is being attacked. Morello IS in charge of every change in the game because he greenlights all of them. If a bad decision is made, even if the idea wasn't his, it's his fault for letting it go live. And the game is nowhere near balanced, any tournament statics will show you that.
[QUOTE=ashxu;44614252]DotA2 fanboys sure do love their ad hominem huh, instead of actually talking about the game, let's talk about how shit morello is, like he is in charge of every change in the game
haven't played league for months but you guys never change
league has always been a revolving door of bad and good changes however in the first 3 seasons the game has generally been more balanced
if there was an award for more insecure fanbase, I'd give the award to you guys
stay classy and keep those buzzwords flowing[/QUOTE]
Why are the Dota 2 people always the one to talk shit?
I don't get it, we don't even care about Dota 2 as a game and you guys always lash out as soon as you get the chance in hope to change something?
We don't give a shit about your game, just let us play ours lmao
[QUOTE=ashxu;44614252]DotA2 fanboys sure do love their ad hominem huh, instead of actually talking about the game, let's talk about how shit morello is, like he is in charge of every change in the game[/QUOTE]
I knew it would be you who'd defend Morello. Or Riot in general, really. You're right, it's always the same.
Firstly, Dota 2 has literally nothing to do with this topic and Morello being terrible. In fact, it wasn't mentioned once
Secondly, why the fuck would we talk about the game if we're talking about game designers?
And lastly, he's the LEAD designer so my guess is that he is pretty much in charge of most changes.
While I agree that the meta is much better than terrible S2, it's still bad and static. Disclaimer: haven't played the game for 3 months so the last time I played was pre season 3(or it was the beginning of S3, don't remember). I know there haven't been any bigger changes, but it might be slightly better or worse.
[editline]22nd April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Monkey san;44614677]Why are the Dota 2 people always the one to talk shit?
I don't get it, we don't even care about Dota 2 as a game and you guys always lash out as soon as you get the chance in hope to change something?
We don't give a shit about your game, just let us play ours lmao[/QUOTE]
Considering I have over 3k games played in LoL, I think I can talk about it freely no matter which game I find better.
[QUOTE=Blueplastic;44615175]I knew it would be you who'd defend Morello. Or Riot in general, really. You're right, it's always the same.
Firstly, Dota 2 has literally nothing to do with this topic and Morello being terrible. In fact, it wasn't mentioned once
Secondly, why the fuck would we talk about the game if we're talking about game designers?
And lastly, he's the LEAD designer so my guess is that he is pretty much in charge of most changes.
While I agree that the meta is much better than terrible S2, it's still bad and static. Disclaimer: haven't played the game for 3 months so the last time I played was pre season 3(or it was the beginning of S3, don't remember). I know there haven't been any bigger changes, but it might be slightly better or worse.
[editline]22nd April 2014[/editline]
Considering I have over 3k games played in LoL, I think I can talk about it freely no matter which game I find better.[/QUOTE]
You see. That's the thing. You guys keep bringing it up and try to cause a reaction of sorts? While we don't give a shit about Dota 2. We don't think it's any good, we try to distance us from the game because we just dont give a shit (which i have probably said 10 times now).
[QUOTE=Monkey san;44615398]You see. That's the thing. You guys keep bringing it up and try to cause a reaction of sorts? While we don't give a shit about Dota 2. We don't think it's any good, we try to distance us from the game because we just dont give a shit (which i have probably said 10 times now).[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Blueplastic;44615175]Firstly, Dota 2 has literally nothing to do with this topic and Morello being terrible. In fact, it wasn't mentioned once[/QUOTE]
Also your last dumb sentence proves that you're just bitter
Thread is ruined now gj guys how about discussing the topic in question.
[editline]22nd April 2014[/editline]
This is petty arguments about why your opinion matters more.
[QUOTE=Monkey san;44615398]You see. That's the thing. You guys keep bringing it up and try to cause a reaction of sorts? While we don't give a shit about Dota 2. We don't think it's any good, we try to distance us from the game because we just dont give a shit (which i have probably said 10 times now).[/QUOTE]
First, you talk alot about "we" as if you represented the whole LoL community.
Second, it's always important to keep an eye on your competition. Players should request features that they deem important and see present on other games and Devs should learn from the features present on other games.
[QUOTE=Blueplastic;44615550]Also your last dumb sentence proves that you're just bitter[/QUOTE]
Bitter, why should i be bitter?
The fact you pointing it out makes it more obvious you are bruh.
[editline]24th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;44615880]First, you talk alot about "we" as if you represented the whole LoL community.
Second, it's always important to keep an eye on your competition. Players should request features that they deem important and see present on other games and Devs should learn from the features present on other games.[/QUOTE]
If you were really into the community (and if you are) you'd notice how much we (the LoL community) just dont care about Dota 2.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.