[QUOTE=DEMONSKUL;51825835]So it's an RTS except it's not an RTS....[/QUOTE]
It's a MOBA.
It's pretty much a MOBA masquerading as an RTS since far less competition and stigma, since MOBAs oversaturating the market.
Base building and unit production are the cornerstones of an RTS. If you try and make an RTS about camera angles or if the game takes skill, might as well call Pillars of Eternity or Fallout 2 or even Call of Duty an RTS.
tl;dr: It's a MOBA except you control 3 heroes instead of 1 and you have no teammates and match length are locked at 15 minutes.
It is called an RTS because it is not team-based multiplayer, which imo is MOBA's biggest strength, (EDITED) >> yet without RTS' biggest strength which is the army.
[QUOTE=Noob4life;51826116]tl;dr: It's a MOBA except you control 3 heroes instead of 1 and you have no teammates and match length are locked at 15 minutes.
It is called an RTS because it is not team-based multiplayer, which imo is MOBA's biggest strength, but you don't build armies, which is RTS' biggest strength.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying RTS' biggest strength is to build armies or the opposite?
[QUOTE=RockyTV;51826146]Are you saying RTS' biggest strength is to build armies or the opposite?[/QUOTE]
Oops, wording. I'll quote the dude above me, he said it better:
[QUOTE=Loriborn;51826092]Base building and unit production are the cornerstones of an RTS. If you try and make an RTS about camera angles or if the game takes skill, might as well call Pillars of Eternity or Fallout 2 or even Call of Duty an RTS.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]competitive RTS[/QUOTE]
:vomit:
MOBAs are built around never diverting control away from your singular character, splitting micro between three characters on possibly different ends of the map sounds like a nightmare.
This isn't an RTS at all. It's a MOBA RTT. Competitive focus is one of the things that helped to murder RTS. Stop with the fast game, competitive focus already.
Can we have a [I]fun[/I] RTS instead. Ya'know, like CnC, DoW, CoH, SupCom, or AoE instead?
[QUOTE=Destroyox;51827560]Can we have a [I]fun[/I] RTS instead. Ya'know, like CnC, DoW, CoH, SupCom, or AoE instead?[/QUOTE]
I'd like a game that actively PUNISHED you for rushing, but rewarded you for long-play and to a lesser extend turtling without it being a game of "who quits first".
[QUOTE=Van-man;51827596]I'd like a game that actively PUNISHED you for rushing, but rewarded you for long-play and to a lesser extend turtling without it being a game of "who quits first".[/QUOTE]In a good game you can prevent rushing with scouting and figuring out that your opponent is gonna do it and preparing counter measures accoringly. It's usually a high risk high reward strategy and if it fail the rusher should be in a really bad position because they spent a lot of resources to do the rush, so in that sense it is already punished, really harshly too if their opponent uses the opportunity.
[QUOTE=Van-man;51827596]I'd like a game that actively PUNISHED you for rushing, but rewarded you for long-play and to a lesser extend turtling without it being a game of "who quits first".[/QUOTE]
that sounds pretty lame, I like games where you can do whatever strategy you want if you're good. AOE 2 is a great example of that (outside of very high level play)
That's a MOBA, Not a RTS.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;51826092]It's pretty much a MOBA masquerading as an RTS since far less competition and stigma, since MOBAs oversaturating the market.
Base building and unit production are the cornerstones of an RTS. If you try and make an RTS about camera angles or if the game takes skill, might as well call Pillars of Eternity or Fallout 2 or even Call of Duty an RTS.[/QUOTE]
Nah, you can absolutely make a fantastic RTS without those elements. Just look at World in Conflict, there's plenty of other examples like that.
This really does look like a MOBA though.
From the name I was hoping for a second that Dropzone Commander is getting made into an RTS thanks PCgamer.
[QUOTE=elowin;51830894]Nah, you can absolutely make a fantastic RTS without those elements. Just look at World in Conflict, there's plenty of other examples like that.
This really does look like a MOBA though.[/QUOTE]
World in Conflict isn't an RTS, it's an RTT. Resource management and base building are what make an RTS an RTS.
[QUOTE=Oblivion Knight;51831010]World in Conflict isn't an RTS, it's an RTT. Resource management and base building are what make an RTS an RTS.[/QUOTE]
Semantics. They're strategy games in real time, whether they have base building or not.
[QUOTE=elowin;51831363]Semantics. They're strategy games in real time, whether they have base building or not.[/QUOTE]
It's not just "Semantics" when that's the definition of the genre. A game without resource management and base building is a RTT game, not an RTS.
[QUOTE=nightlord;51831371]It's not just "Semantics" when that's the definition of the genre. A game without resource management and base building is a RTT game, not an RTS.[/QUOTE]
That's exactly what semantics is. You're just arguing the definition of the word rather than what I was actually saying.
Anyway, the distinction between these two "genres" is so tenuous that there are plenty of games within each genres that are less similar than games across the two.
That's like saying an FPS and TPS are the same thing because both involve shooting. RTS and RTT are superficially similar, but they're two different kinds of game.
RTS involve resource and/or base management while RTT are only on unit management.
RTT generally have a limited unit pallet that you start with, and the game is about managing them and minimizing losses, which requires a lot more tactical play (Which is to say, more micro, more small scale play focus).
RTS you're managing resources, buildings, and units. Units are a renewable resource and losses can be made up. They're generally going to be focused on more strategic game play (more macro, less micro, more scale).
There are obvious exceptions, and the RTS has been watered down in recent years, given there hasn't been many large scale RTS in the last 7 years.
[QUOTE=Gunner th;51831791]That's like saying an FPS and TPS are the same thing because both involve shooting. RTS and RTT are superficially similar, but they're two different kinds of game.
RTS involve resource and/or base management while RTT are only on unit management.
RTT generally have a limited unit pallet that you start with, and the game is about managing them and minimizing losses, which requires a lot more tactical play (Which is to say, more micro, more small scale play focus).
RTS you're managing resources, buildings, and units. Units are a renewable resource and losses can be made up. They're generally going to be focused on more strategic game play (more macro, less micro, more scale).
There are obvious exceptions, and the RTS has been watered down in recent years, given there hasn't been many large scale RTS in the last 7 years.[/QUOTE]
Well they are both shooters, but First Person and Third Person are pretty hard distinctions. 'cept for the couple of games that are both.
The distinction between "strategy" and "tactics" is extremely blurry and vague.
why is it that whenever something is described as "for the modern era" its always a bad thing
[QUOTE=elowin;51832290]Well they are both shooters, but First Person and Third Person are pretty hard distinctions. 'cept for the couple of games that are both.
The distinction between "strategy" and "tactics" is extremely blurry and vague.[/QUOTE]
It's not really. Tactics involve "short-term" things; things you do in order to achieve an objective. Strategy is about the whole mess of things, it's about what you need to do in order to win the campaign, if we were to talk warfare.
basically CnC 4 which was a huge flaming always-online turd
[QUOTE=Sableye;51835591]basically CnC 4 which was a huge flaming always-online turd[/QUOTE]
ahhhhHHHHHHHHH[B]HHHHHHHHH[/B]
Don't remind me of my trauma. CnC4 followed by Generals 2 being changed into a f2p game and then cancelled basically killed the franchise forever.
[QUOTE=DrugUnit;51830901]From the name I was hoping for a second that Dropzone Commander is getting made into an RTS thanks PCgamer.[/QUOTE]
That would be cool as hell but I doubt enough people are even aware Dropzone Commander exists to make anyone really interested in licensing it.
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