• Steam refunds: what developers think, two months on
    36 replies, posted
[url]http://www.pcgamesn.com/steam-refunds-what-developers-think-two-months-later[/url]
What is this decent article doing on PCGamesN?
[QUOTE=Brt5470;48331133]What is this decent article doing on PCGamesN?[/QUOTE] You're not gonna complain about them even when they make something nice, are you?
[QUOTE=Loadingue;48331253]You're not gonna complain about them even when they make something nice, are you?[/QUOTE] My post is a bit satirical as no one seems to notice it's PCGamesN until a recognizably dim article pops up.
Most of the issues for asking for a refund could be avoided if dev's released a demo version "bring back demo's" :)
Chances of a dev releasing a demo is pretty slim especially in this day and age.
[QUOTE=taz0;48331425]Most of the issues for asking for a refund could be avoided if dev's released a demo version "bring back demo's" :)[/QUOTE] True on some level, but I would still like the right/option to get a refund even if demos were back.
[QUOTE=taz0;48331425]Most of the issues for asking for a refund could be avoided if dev's released a demo version "bring back demo's" :)[/QUOTE] demos = too much money on something that doesn't give it back. Allowing for a refund seems great as a person could play it for an hour to get a feel for the game and then decide whether or not to keep it.
[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;48331474]demos = too much money on something that doesn't give it back. Allowing for a refund seems great as a person could play it for an hour to get a feel for the game and then decide whether or not to keep it.[/QUOTE] Both would be best. Less refunds if people get to try out your game first without having to buy it fully first.
I'm pretty selective over the games I buy so I don't think i'd ever use the return function unless it was a game i was really hyped for that turned out to be incredibly broken with no sign of it being fixed.
[QUOTE=taz0;48331425]Most of the issues for asking for a refund could be avoided if dev's released a demo version "bring back demo's" :)[/QUOTE] Demo's aren't a show of the true game most devs would also make the demo better than the actual game anyways
[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;48331474]demos = too much money on something that doesn't give it back. Allowing for a refund seems great as a person could play it for an hour to get a feel for the game and then decide whether or not to keep it.[/QUOTE] with a demo you'd get player feed back on any bugs that they found just look back at the days of doom3 battlefield vietman and UT, the point of a demo is to get a larger group of beta testers on a verity of pc systems yes refunds are good but if someone buy a singleplayer game and finishes it in 2 or 4 hours then gets a refund they just had a free game and you've got nothing for your time or work
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;48331593]I'm pretty selective over the games I buy so I don't think i'd ever use the return function unless it was a game i was really hyped for that turned out to be incredibly broken with no sign of it being fixed.[/QUOTE] Same. I'd only get a refund if I absolutely can't get the game running.
[QUOTE=Keychain;48331521]Both would be best. Less refunds if people get to try out your game first without having to buy it fully first.[/QUOTE] But refunds aren't a lost sale, quite the opposite it gives people the chance to try your game without you having to spend resources on building a demo; being guaranteed a refund means if I want I can be careless in my purchases and try games that I otherwise wouldn't gamble on There's no loss from refunding a digital item and developers get feedback on why people are asking for refunds
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;48331917]But refunds aren't a lost sale, quite the opposite it gives people the chance to try your game without you having to spend resources on building a demo; being guaranteed a refund means if I want I can be careless in my purchases and try games that I otherwise wouldn't gamble on There's no loss from refunding a digital item and developers get feedback on why people are asking for refunds[/QUOTE] I know. I never said it was. But it saves people time, especially when refunds can take up to a week to fully go through. Also hy bother putting down the money for a game, risk accidentally losing your right to refund it, when you can just play a demo all the way through? You can't rapidly refund, but you can sure as hell rapidly download and replay demos.
I thought those numbers would have been alot higher! My my ...
:garryspin: Garry mentioned
Please do more quality articles like this PCGamesN.
[quote]I can say daily sales are up by more than 30%, which is big enough that I don't imagine refunds are completely negating it,” says Tom Francis, [B]developer of Gunpoint[/B][/quote] The bolded part is very relevant in this whole thing. Gunpoint? Fucking fantastic game. I got it for a dollar and it's worth so much more than that for the enjoyment I got out of it. So basically: if your game isn't shit, people won't refund it. Who knew, right?
[QUOTE=gk99;48335354]The bolded part is very relevant in this whole thing. Gunpoint? Fucking fantastic game. I got it for a dollar and it's worth so much more than that for the enjoyment I got out of it. So basically: if your game isn't shit, people won't refund it. Who knew, right?[/QUOTE] And knowing you can get a refund makes people more willing to experiment with otherwise risky purchases, which is p damn cool.
Is there a link to the full spread of stats shown in that picture? I'd like to see how many people refunded for lower cost due to sales.
[QUOTE=Alxnotorious;48335987]Is there a link to the full spread of stats shown in that picture?[/QUOTE] Probably not, seeing as it's a dev's private info.
you know, I know it's just for one platform, but steam refunds is probably my favorite thing to happen in gaming for a damn long time
i like how at first a bunch of shitty indie devs were whining how this was the end of the world. i would really like to see how they feel now that it turned out to be a good thing (what a surprise)
Would Warner Brothers have 'recalled' the PC version of Batman had there not been Steam Refunds? Or been driven enough to completely fix it post launch? Happy consumers make for happy business. Buying a bum product and having to bite it sucks. Everyone wants to price and tax digital goods as if they're physical, shipped copies. So we should be able to return them if they don't work
[QUOTE=Brt5470;48331133]What is this decent article doing on PCGamesN?[/QUOTE] iirc a lot (if not all) the bad articles are written by that guy whats-his-name
[QUOTE=damnatus;48337696]iirc a lot (if not all) the bad articles are written by that guy whats-his-name[/QUOTE] Steve Hogarty. dear lord I [I]know[/I] his name. [I]Look what he's done.[/I] But in all fairness he gives me a chuckle every now and then. People are a bit harsh when it comes to PCGamesN but I don't really mind.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48336937]Would Warner Brothers have 'recalled' the PC version of Batman had there not been Steam Refunds? Or been driven enough to completely fix it post launch? Happy consumers make for happy business. Buying a bum product and having to bite it sucks. Everyone wants to price and tax digital goods as if they're physical, shipped copies. So we should be able to return them if they don't work[/QUOTE] I only wish the same could of happened when GTA 4 was around, I still would kill for an optimised version of that game personally. Anyway [QUOTE]“The only problem we're seeing with the two-hour time limit is that we're seeing a lot of persistent cheaters who will make a new account and cheat on it for 1.9 hours and then refund. Then they'll make a new account, cheat for an hour fifty, and refund again,” Newman says[/QUOTE] I wonder if stopping cards from known hackers "buying" the specific game would stop this happening? Warn them beforehand about cheating and refunding though.
[QUOTE=Genericenemy;48338153]I only wish the same could of happened when GTA 4 was around, I still would kill for an optimised version of that game personally. Anyway I wonder if stopping cards from known hackers "buying" the specific game would stop this happening? Warn them beforehand about cheating and refunding though.[/QUOTE] I'm curious what valve have to prevent this happening with those who cheat on VAC protected servers, or if they do at all.
[QUOTE=taz0;48331650]with a demo you'd get player feed back on any bugs that they found just look back at the days of doom3 battlefield vietman and UT, the point of a demo is to get a larger group of beta testers on a verity of pc systems yes refunds are good but if someone buy a singleplayer game and finishes it in 2 or 4 hours then gets a refund they just had a free game and you've got nothing for your time or work[/QUOTE] in today's development pipeline demos are entirely useless. Demos are supposed to be a chunk of [i]finished[/i] content, and a lot of games at release are so complex and are exposed to millions of different setups and potential fails in the first few hours of availability, there could be a ton of things that would disqualify "finished" status. Demos were great for early console games. There was very little for the public to judge whether or not they'd like the game on. Hell, I remember when game trailers were [i]mailed to me on VHS tapes[/i]. (it worked, sold me and many others on banjo kazooie). Seeing gameplay and maybe experiencing a slice of content via those extended trailer things (often playing on the TV in a game store/the toys r us game section) was a major selling point. After that, demos were cool, because you could download them without having to buy the game, have some fun with it. The first dead rising was hilarious, a friend and I pretty much just played that to see who could get the highest score before it ended right now, we've got two things that cover what we've wanted/had in the past: trailers/flavorful media saturation from the developers/youtube let's plays, and [i]beta participation[/i]; which is what you're what you're asking for. Unfortunately people act like [i]beta[/i] just means demo. Beta/alpha/etc is VERY straight-forward with the concept that yes, you are supposed to provide feedback. This is where the devs are listening and watching and learning. Sure there's people who jump into it because they just want a sneak peak and early access, but if it was explicitly labeled a [i]demo[/i], the only feedback you'd get is "OMG it's broken do no buy!" "EA sucks!" "medic broken plz fix" "LOL NETCODE". The developers don't get metrics out of angry mobs who didn't sign up to find bugs
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