[url]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/06/201162945027320392.html[/url]
[quote]A bill which would ban halal and kosher slaughter methods has passed through the Dutch parliament, despite opposition from Muslim and Jewish groups who say a ban would impinge on their religious freedoms.
The bill, which was passed overwhelmingly by parliamentarians on Wednesday, still has to pass through the Dutch senate, which is unlikely before the summer recess.
The Dutch cabinet said on Monday that the law may be unenforceable in its current form due to the ambiguity of a last-minute amendment that says religious slaughter licenses can be granted if they can "prove" that it does not cause animals more pain than stunning.
If the Netherlands outlaws procedures that make meat kosher for Jews or halal for Muslims, it would be the second country after New Zealand to do so in recent years. Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland also ban religious slaughter.
Henk Blekers, the Dutch deputy secretary of economic affairs and agriculture, said that the cabinet would "look at how it fits with freedom of religion", citing the European Convention on Human Rights.
Both halal and kosher slaughter rules prescribe that animals' throats must be cut swiftly with a razor-sharp knife while they are still conscious, so that they bleed to death quickly.
'Animal rights over religious rights'
But the Party for Animals, the main proponents of the proposed law, argue that sparing animals needless pain and distress outweighs religious groups' rights to follow their respective slaughter practices.
"They (livestock) stay conscious for up to 5 minutes. They lose a lot of blood and they can choke on their own blood and the cut should be one time, but research shows that with kosher slaughter (they are cut) on average 3.5 times, and with halal 5.5 times," Karen Soeters of the Party for Animals told Al Jazeera.
But defenders of the practices said that religious slaughter methods could be humane.
"With halal, the animal can't be stressed. It can't see other animals being killed," Abdulhakim Chouaati of the Dutch Halal Feed and Food Authority told Al Jazeera.
"It's our religion we're practicing, and expressing religion in our modern industrial society is not a thing which is appealing to the public," Ronnie Eisenmann, a Jewish community leader in the Netherlands told Al Jazeera.
In an open letter pleading with parliament not to pass the law, a a committee of rabbis said the impact on the Jewish community would be "deep and large".
"Older Jews are frightened and wonder what the next law will be that limits their religious life. The youth are openly asking whether they still have a future that they can or want to build in the Netherlands," the letter continued.
[b]Only Christian political parties opposed the ban, arguing that it undermined the country's tradition of religious tolerance.[/b]
A solid majority of Dutch voters say they support the ban, and[b] parliament voted for it by a margin of 116 for to 30 against.[/b]
[b]The support for the ban comes from an odd pairing of the political left, which sees religious slaughter as inhumane, and from the anti-immigration right, which says it is foreign and barbaric.[/b][/quote]
HAHAHAHAHA! Fuck you too, religion!:Dawkins102:
[quote]animals' throats must be cut swiftly with a razor-sharp knife while they are still conscious, so that they bleed to death quickly.[/quote]
I'm ok with the PM for this one.
if it's less humane than normal ways of slaughter then i agree with this.
I don't see the issue here. Good going MPs
Agreeing on this.
[QUOTE=valkery;30778496]
HAHAHAHAHA! Fuck you too, religion!:Dawkins102:[/QUOTE]
Are you three? It's good that these things are gone in The Netherlands but that's just a rude behaviour.
[QUOTE=kimr120;30778905]Are you three? It's good that these things are gone in The Netherlands but that's just a rude behaviour.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I just get pissed at how much power religion still has in this world. When stuff like this happens, I get overly happy.
if it's done properly it won't hurt hurt the animal because the animal goes into shock
and even then, you're fucking slaughtering the animal and its friends systematically
"oh no slitting its throat with a knife is inhumane, i'd prefer you electrocute it and shoot a rod through its brain"
and not to mention:
[quote]from the anti-immigration right, which says it is foreign[/quote]
fuck off
I don't know much about this to comment, but the article seems to invoke that it was motivated by racial intolerance, is that so?
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;30779050]I don't know much about this to comment, but the article seems to invoke that it was motivated by racial intolerance, is that so?[/QUOTE]
You'd have to live in holland to see it, but holland is slowly turning into a muslim state, our largest cities are 50%+ muslims, immigrants coming every single day, they cause trouble, steal, murder, rape, insult women everywhere.
Anything to put them in their place and actually have them adapt to our norms is a good thing, because they wanted to live here, they should adapt to us, not us to them.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;30779050]I don't know much about this to comment, but the article seems to invoke that it was motivated by racial intolerance, is that so?[/QUOTE]
i can see how it could be, europe has been going through a huge surge in islamophobia
[QUOTE=Miskav;30779075]You'd have to live in holland to see it, but holland is slowly turning into a muslim state, our largest cities are 50%+ muslims, immigrants coming every single day, they cause trouble, steal, murder, rape, insult women everywhere.
Anything to put them in their place and actually have them adapt to our norms is a good thing, because they wanted to live here, they should adapt to us, not us to them.[/QUOTE]
yeah this is what i'm talking about. lol
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;30779050]I don't know much about this to comment, but the article seems to invoke that it was motivated by racial intolerance, is that so?[/QUOTE]
the netherlands is a very strange place when it comes to social issues like these
[editline]29th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Miskav;30779075]You'd have to live in holland to see it, but holland is slowly turning into a muslim state, our largest cities are 50%+ muslims, immigrants coming every single day, they cause trouble, steal, murder, rape, insult women everywhere.[/QUOTE]
i was an immigrant in holland and i didn't fucking do any of that
why are you dutch so rude?
especially to a group that only represents 5% of your population and lives in small splinter communities
I disagree with the law. mostly with thisispain on this one.
i remember in holland i was in a bar and this one idiot shouted out in dutch that holland wouldn't speak dutch anymore by 2011 and several people agreed with him while screaming drunkenly and watching oranje play football
[QUOTE=thisispain;30779092]the netherlands is a very strange place when it comes to social issues like these
[editline]29th June 2011[/editline]
i was an immigrant in holland and i didn't fucking do any of that
why are you dutch so rude?
especially to a group that only represents 5% of your population and lives in small splinter communities[/QUOTE]
Go in to any larger city, Who is causing the trouble?
Either white dutch kids (Low education, etc)
Or Muslim kids.
The first kind you see less and less these past 5 years
Second kind? You can't go a block without being either yelled at, insulted, or even assaulted if you're a girl. When you're a guy you still need to avoid any group of 2+ muslims as they'll shank you in no time.
I've been stabbed twice, for no other reason than being there and refusing to worship them/get out of their way.
You can claim anecdotal evidence, but you can ask anyone who spends time in the larger cities and they'll agree with me, if they don't, then they're mighty lucky.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Racism" - Starpluck))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Miskav;30779159]Go in to any larger city, Who is causing the trouble?[/QUOTE]
your cunt kids
[QUOTE=Miskav;30779159]Either white dutch kids (Low education, etc)
Or Muslim kids. [/QUOTE]
low education? your fucking education is free.
[QUOTE=Miskav;30779159]The first kind you see less and less these past 5 years
Second kind? You can't go a block without being either yelled at, insulted, or even assaulted if you're a girl. When you're a guy you still need to avoid any group of 2+ muslims as they'll shank you in no time.[/QUOTE]
wow that's just racism in its most ugliest form. i've been with a group of "2+ muslims", we had a chat about middle east politics and i had some turkish pizza.
[QUOTE=Miskav;30779159]I've been stabbed twice, for no other reason than being there and refusing to worship them/get out of their way. [/QUOTE]
considering your attitude its hard to believe that's all you did
maybe you should try being nice to people and not judging them beforehand
[QUOTE=Miskav;30779159]You can claim anecdotal evidence, but you can ask anyone who spends time in the larger cities and they'll agree with me, if they don't, then they're mighty lucky.[/QUOTE]
i claim bullshit
i'm pretty sure england is a more dangerous place than the netherlands in any case
[QUOTE=Miskav;30779159]Go in to any larger city, Who is causing the trouble?
Either white dutch kids (Low education, etc)
Or Muslim kids.
The first kind you see less and less these past 5 years
Second kind? You can't go a block without being either yelled at, insulted, or even assaulted if you're a girl. When you're a guy you still need to avoid any group of 2+ muslims as they'll shank you in no time.
I've been stabbed twice, for no other reason than being there and refusing to worship them/get out of their way.
You can claim anecdotal evidence, but you can ask anyone who spends time in the larger cities and they'll agree with me, if they don't, then they're mighty lucky.[/QUOTE]
do you have any statistics to back up these claims of such widespread violence?!
[QUOTE=thisispain;30779092]the netherlands is a very strange place when it comes to social issues like these
[editline]29th June 2011[/editline]
i was an immigrant in holland and i didn't fucking do any of that
why are you dutch so rude?
especially to a group that only represents 5% of your population and lives in small splinter communities[/QUOTE]
He didn't say every immigrant does that.
Because the immigrant/muslim group is so small, things like stealing and insulting and other shit just stand out more. You can argue back and forth but our traditions aren't the same as muslims. As Miskav said, you'd have to live here for a while to see what all the fuss is about.
the problem is that dutch people have a very bad attitude towards other groups of people
i knew plenty of people of suriname decent that were constantly bullied for the colour of their skin in the netherlands.
not as liberal as they would proudly proclaim themselves.
and it's very rich considering the fact that they had no problem fucking people in the south of africa. afrikaans being a decent of dutch is a delicious irony.
and you still claim colonies in your kingdom...
I check rates of population, it said that Muslims were roughly 7.5% of the population, but that most llived in the largest citiees.
Just giving you something to work from
[QUOTE=DoubleDD;30779224]He didn't say every immigrant does that.
Because the immigrant/muslim group is so small, things like stealing and insulting and other shit just stand out more. You can argue back and forth but our traditions aren't the same as muslims. As Miskav said, you'd have to live here for a while to see what all the fuss is about.[/QUOTE]
i did live there for a while, this "OH YOU HAVE TO LIVE HERE TO SEE IT" is complete bullshit and usually said by sheltered little childeren.
and not to mention:
[quote]immigrants coming every single day, they cause trouble, steal, murder, rape, insult women everywhere.[/quote]
little english lesson there, note he said immigrants without classification. that means all immigrants because he didn't separate or classify anyone besides immigrants.
[editline]29th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;30779252]I check rates of population, it said that Muslims were roughly 7.5% of the population, but that most llived in the largest citiees.
Just giving you something to work from[/QUOTE]
my source says 5%
[QUOTE=thisispain;30779246]the problem is that dutch people have a very bad attitude towards other groups of people
i knew plenty of people of suriname decent that were constantly bullied for the colour of their skin in the netherlands.
not as liberal as they would proudly proclaim themselves.
and it's very rich considering the fact that they had no problem fucking people in the south of africa. afrikaans being a decent of dutch is a delicious irony.
and you still claim colonies in your kingdom...[/QUOTE]
You are doing the same as Miskav: generalizing a group of people(the Dutch) because you've seen a few people get bullied by Dutch people.
[QUOTE=thisispain;30779136]i remember in holland i was in a bar and this one idiot shouted out in dutch that holland wouldn't speak dutch anymore by 2011 and several people agreed with him while screaming drunkenly and watching oranje play football[/QUOTE]
Well those are the morons of our society. We're not rude, we're just direct. If you smell, we say you smell like shit. We don't care for euphemisms.
[editline]29th June 2011[/editline]
Also, our education isn't free, and it's no use to go to university if you're simply not smart enough.
[QUOTE=DoubleDD;30779284]You are doing the same as Miskav: generalizing a group of people(the Dutch) because you've seen a few people get bullied by Dutch people.[/QUOTE]
except it's not a few dutch people or all dutch people
it's the dutch society that contains shitloads of systemic and institutionalized racism. no-one could blame you because you're all homogenized like fuck anyway because slaves weren't brought back to holland, instead they were taken a lot to the new world which we know as america today. new york used to be called new amsterdam.
[editline]29th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bokito;30779286]
Also, our education isn't free[/QUOTE]
what yeah it is
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_Netherlands[/url]
it's also apparently 9th best in the world
Officially they are free, but in reality they aren't. I would know, because I actually went to school here.
[QUOTE=Bokito;30779286]Well those are the morons of our society. We're not rude, we're just direct. If you smell, we say you smell like shit. We don't care for euphemisms.[/QUOTE]
lol a very open usage of the word direct
"I had a good experience with muslims, so anyone with an experience contrary to my own is dumb and has no idea what he is talking about. That person is also a xenophobe/racist."
[QUOTE=Bokito;30779355]Officially they are free, but in reality they aren't. I would know, because I actually went to school here.[/QUOTE]
yeah uh the family i used to live with in holland didn't pay anything for their education.
[QUOTE=thisispain;30779320]except it's not a few dutch people or all dutch people
it's the dutch society that contains shitloads of systemic and institutionalized racism. no-one could blame you because you're all homogenized like fuck anyway because slaves weren't brought back to holland, instead they were taken a lot to the new world which we know as america today. new york used to be called new amsterdam.
[editline]29th June 2011[/editline]
what yeah it is
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_Netherlands[/url]
it's also apparently 9th best in the world[/QUOTE]
Again, you generalize the whole Dutch society based on a few events that occured to people you know. What if I said that I also have seen a few of these occurrences, even directed at me, where Muslims were not only disrespectful to me, but also to elderly people. Could I then say the all Muslims are a bunch of disrespectful fucks that need a proper education not only at school, but also at home?
No ofcourse not because that's a crazy thing to say. But it's exactly what you are doing
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.